The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2018, 10:04 AM   #76
W*GS
Eppure si scalda
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 35,501
Default

Trump wants the Nobel Peace Prize just so baaaaaad!
W*GS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 10:23 AM   #77
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 
For Gort

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 43,431

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W*GS View Post
Trump wants the Nobel Peace Prize just so baaaaaad!
I guarantee you its the only thing on his mind. That and a nice headline.

This "agreement" literally does nothing. Just two fat retards shaking hands.

It was obvious from go it was just a publicity stunt. A worthless signed piece of paper so trump can claim victory.

I just don't understand how anyone sees it otherwise.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 10:26 AM   #78
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 
And so it goes...

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Trumpville (like Potterville, but stupider)
Posts: 78,909

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Phillip Lindsay
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Let's not get carried away. Two con men are playing go fish basically at this point.

I mean Roh's Chicken Little bit is kinda sad and not very connected to geopolitical reality. But none of that suddenly makes North Korea a credible negotiating partner that's going to follow through on all the pinky promises and toilet paper signings.

Otherwise it's the Iran joke all over again.
You obviously know nothing about "geopolitical reality." Maybe you should pick up a history book? 41 million died in WWI. 41 MILLION. It started because some idiot shot an archduke. 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam (and probably millions of Vietnamese) just because of a ****ed up philosophy (Domino Theory) that drove leaders into a complete misinterpretation of what was actually going on. America invaded Iraq to find WMDs that didn't exist. And look where that little adventure of the neocons has taken us?

Forget the nukes. NK has a massive amount of artillery aimed at Seoul. Any misinterpretation of anybody else's motives not only could lead to all out war, but has done exactly that in history, numerous times. Geopolitical reality, my ass.

America has placed a ****ing moron in the White House. The only people not worried about what he might do are other ****ing morons.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 06-12-2018 at 10:41 AM..
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 10:36 AM   #79
BroncsRule
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,371

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post
Fake news.

You are one gullible chump.
It's actually not fake news, but retro's timing is off: It was the Gee Dub administration that "lost" $8 billion in $100 dollar bills - several pallets worth! Disappeared off a military transport on the tarmac at Al Asad airbase in late 2004-5.
BroncsRule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 10:59 AM   #80
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla!
 
L.A. BRONCOS FAN's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location
Posts: 85,940
Default

Nailed it...


Quote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opini...FOZ?li=BBnb7Kz



It sure looks as if President Trump was hoodwinked in Singapore.

Trump made a huge concession — the suspension of military exercises with South Korea. That’s on top of the broader concession of the summit meeting itself, security guarantees he gave North Korea and the legitimacy that the summit provides his counterpart, Kim Jong-un.

Within North Korea, the “very special bond” that Trump claimed to have formed with Kim will be portrayed this way: Kim forced the American president, through his nuclear and missile tests, to accept North Korea as a nuclear equal, to provide security guarantees to North Korea, and to cancel war games with South Korea that the North has protested for decades.

In exchange for these concessions, Trump seems to have won astonishingly little. In a joint statement, Kim merely “reaffirmed” the same commitment to denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula that North Korea has repeatedly made since 1992.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 11:01 AM   #81
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
Meh. Anyone can.

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 33,052

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
You obviously know nothing about "geopolitical reality." Maybe you should pick up a history book? 41 million died in WWI. 41 MILLION. It started because some idiot shot an archduke. 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam (and probably millions of Vietnamese) just because of a ****ed up philosophy (Domino Theory) that drove leaders into a complete misinterpretation of what was actually going on. America invaded Iraq to find WMDs that didn't exist. And look where that little adventure of the neocons has taken us?

Forget the nukes. NK has a massive amount of artillery aimed at Seoul. Any misinterpretation of anybody else's motives not only could lead to all out war, but has done exactly that in history, numerous times. Geopolitical reality, my ass.

America has placed a ****ing moron in the White House. The only people not worried about what he might do are other ****ing morons.
A North Korean attack would be suicide. Which would be pretty unprecedented in world history. WWI or II offer no corollary. Never has an instigator instigated against such absolutely suicidal odds. North Korea wouldn't have a hope of defeating South Korea, let alone the United States.

If China got involved, that's a different thing. China is the real player here. But there's no reason to think they would based on a rash act by North Korea. Although they might be tempted to take care of the regime themselves in that case, to have better control over what comes next.

Geopolitics teaches that you can't conduct yourself only in fear of the toll someone nutjob might exact. You have to act under the assumption that they're operating in their own self interest. And if that interest is for some reason suicidal, you really don't have any realistic choice outside containment up until likely war.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 11:28 AM   #82
spdirty
Ring of Famer
 
spdirty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bailey
Posts: 17,266

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Marquez
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post
Nailed it...
That is NOT a huge concession. Those exercises are bull****.
spdirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 11:39 AM   #83
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 35,081
Default

Pretty good reader comment under this article.


There’s been a lot of ideologically confused and nuance-free commentary on this summit, particularly criticism from people who would have supported Obama doing this, and praise from people who would have hated Obama doing it. A better take IMHO:

– There’s nothing inherently wrong with meeting bad people without preconditions. Some measure of “legitimization” may be a fair price for warmer relations. (This was Obama’s view in ’08.)

– This particular summit handed Kim more legitimization than it had to. Trump saying that North Korea “loves” Kim, among other obsequious moments, was appalling.

– Summitry in pursuit of warmer relations, wherever they lead, creates conditions for future peace. Summitry in pursuit of impossible outcomes like North Korea giving up its nuclear weapons just creates conditions for future conflict.

So, I give Trump credit for figuring out how to get away politically with meeting Kim (something Obama could not have done given right-wing opposition). I fault him for his effusiveness. And I fault him for setting an impossibly high bar for success, which sets the stage for the inevitable charges of North Korean betrayal/bad faith and resumption of mutual hostility.

If the administration wanted to truly go bold on this, they’d drop the demand for denuclearization. Nixon didn’t go to China insisting they give up their nukes.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 11:40 AM   #84
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 
For Gort

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 43,431

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Pretty good reader comment under this article.


There’s been a lot of ideologically confused and nuance-free commentary on this summit, particularly criticism from people who would have supported Obama doing this, and praise from people who would have hated Obama doing it. A better take IMHO:

– There’s nothing inherently wrong with meeting bad people without preconditions. Some measure of “legitimization” may be a fair price for warmer relations. (This was Obama’s view in ’08.)

– This particular summit handed Kim more legitimization than it had to. Trump saying that North Korea “loves” Kim, among other obsequious moments, was appalling.

– Summitry in pursuit of warmer relations, wherever they lead, creates conditions for future peace. Summitry in pursuit of impossible outcomes like North Korea giving up its nuclear weapons just creates conditions for future conflict.

So, I give Trump credit for figuring out how to get away politically with meeting Kim (something Obama could not have done given right-wing opposition). I fault him for his effusiveness. And I fault him for setting an impossibly high bar for success, which sets the stage for the inevitable charges of North Korean betrayal/bad faith and resumption of mutual hostility.

If the administration wanted to truly go bold on this, they’d drop the demand for denuclearization. Nixon didn’t go to China insisting they give up their nukes.
It's fine, it's just a publicity stunt. Literally nothing really changes.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 12:23 PM   #85
ghwk
Ring of Famer
 
ghwk's Avatar
 
Survivor survivor!

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,210

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton's C3-C5
Default

I hope it actually leads to something productive.

But lets keep in mind:
Obama:
Wants Putin back into G7
Alienates closest allies all at once
Gets into confrontation with Canada of all countries
Gets into insult for insult shouting match with N Korea
Agrees then cancels then agrees to meeting w/Kim
Doesn't prepare for meeting, goes by "feel"
Legitimatizes Kim by meeting with him
Doesn't bring up human rights, deflects by saying other countries do it too
Cancels war games with S Korea
Cancels war games and doesn't tell S Korea or our own military
Cancels war games and doesn't tell, well, anyone ahead of time, including congress
Ultimately walks away with nothing right now but visions of hotels on the beach and the hope for more talks.

Conservative reaction -
Howls of Obama's incompetence in all phases of this approach and meeting and its outcome
Begin impeachment proceedings given the traitorous actions of last 3 days
Publicity decimation of the libtards and how they have starting to dismantle NATO as an end result of all this

Replace Obama with Trump in the items above:
Right wingers - silence, hail Trumps bold moves
Trump did everything he criticized Obama for and more, much more
Fox news Hannity echoes Trumps assertion that de-nuclearization to start almost immediately (no such promise at all other than what Kim was doing anyway given he destroyed his test site)
Fox slams "liberal media" for finding any fault in Trumps approach and outcome

Really this is just ****ed up. There is a center to be explored here but no one is going to do it. To the right, this is center.

My take:
Going into this by feel not the brightest approach but with Bolton there I was pretty sure he wouldn't do something completely stupid and I'm not a Bolton fan.

Not consulting with S Korea and Military about cancelling war games, completely stupid
Not bringing up human rights, I'll give a pass for the moment but will need to be part of a package at some point
Letting Kim win this one from a huge PR standpoint in N Korea other than Teflon Don walks away with something few other presidents could have gotten away with in terms of meeting at all, other than that we got nothing.
It has the potential of breaking the log jam of zero progress with N Korea. Putin was right in that Kim would make his citizens eat dirt before giving up nukes. Now we'll see.

Everything now depends on what happens over the nest 3 months and what the N Korea PR machine says about the US and Trump vs how they portray Kim.

Last edited by ghwk; 06-12-2018 at 12:52 PM..
ghwk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 01:37 PM   #86
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 
And so it goes...

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Trumpville (like Potterville, but stupider)
Posts: 78,909

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Phillip Lindsay
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
A North Korean attack would be suicide. Which would be pretty unprecedented in world history. WWI or II offer no corollary. Never has an instigator instigated against such absolutely suicidal odds. North Korea wouldn't have a hope of defeating South Korea, let alone the United States.

If China got involved, that's a different thing. China is the real player here. But there's no reason to think they would based on a rash act by North Korea. Although they might be tempted to take care of the regime themselves in that case, to have better control over what comes next.

Geopolitics teaches that you can't conduct yourself only in fear of the toll someone nutjob might exact. You have to act under the assumption that they're operating in their own self interest. And if that interest is for some reason suicidal, you really don't have any realistic choice outside containment up until likely war.
"Once an order is issued, you should break the waists of the crazy enemies, totally cut their windpipes, and thus show them what a real war is like." Kim Jong Un, 2013

"Whatever Trump might have expected, he will face results beyond his expectation. I will surely and definitely tame the mentally deranged U.S. dotard with fire." Kim Jong Un, 2017
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 01:44 PM   #87
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
Meh. Anyone can.

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 33,052

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
"Once an order is issued, you should break the waists of the crazy enemies, totally cut their windpipes, and thus show them what a real war is like." Kim Jong Un, 2013

"Whatever Trump might have expected, he will face results beyond his expectation. I will surely and definitely tame the mentally deranged U.S. dotard with fire." Kim Jong Un, 2017
"The beautiful cry of 'Death to America' unites our nation"

"Saying 'Death to America' is easy. We need to express 'Death to America' with action."

- Hassan Rouhani
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 01:50 PM   #88
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 
And so it goes...

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Trumpville (like Potterville, but stupider)
Posts: 78,909

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Phillip Lindsay
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
"The beautiful cry of 'Death to America' unites our nation"

"Saying 'Death to America' is easy. We need to express 'Death to America' with action."

- Hassan Rouhani
Tell us about the verifications of denuclearization Trump has installed in his new "deal" with NK.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 01:55 PM   #89
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 
For Gort

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 43,431

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Tell us about the verifications of denuclearization Trump has installed in his new "deal" with NK.
Trump doesn't even care if anything happens from here on in. He got his show and headline.

That's ALL this man cares about. That's it.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 01:58 PM   #90
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
Meh. Anyone can.

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 33,052

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Tell us about the verifications of denuclearization Trump has installed in his new "deal" with NK.
Tell us about the access to international markets and pallets of billions of dollars in unmarked international currency.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 01:59 PM   #91
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 
And so it goes...

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Trumpville (like Potterville, but stupider)
Posts: 78,909

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Phillip Lindsay
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Trump doesn't even care if anything happens from here on in. He got his show and headline.

That's ALL this man cares about. That's it.
Now, he'll just sit back waiting for that call from Oslo.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 02:00 PM   #92
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 
And so it goes...

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Trumpville (like Potterville, but stupider)
Posts: 78,909

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Phillip Lindsay
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Tell us about the access to international markets and pallets of billions of dollars in unmarked international currency.
Since the subject of this thread is Donald in Singapore, explain the "deal" your hero just made with NK? Try to stay on topic.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 02:01 PM   #93
ghwk
Ring of Famer
 
ghwk's Avatar
 
Survivor survivor!

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,210

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton's C3-C5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Tell us about the access to international markets and pallets of billions of dollars in unmarked international currency.
Totally ****ing irrelevant to this thread.

Here's a reminder:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=130457
ghwk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 02:01 PM   #94
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
Meh. Anyone can.

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 33,052

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Since the subject of this thread is Donald in Singapore, explain the "deal" your hero just made with NK? Try to stay on topic.
There's no real 'deal' I'm aware of. Just an oversold effort to obtain one accompanied by a couple meaningless symbolic gestures.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 02:04 PM   #95
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
Meh. Anyone can.

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 33,052

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghwk View Post
Totally ****ing irrelevant to this thread.
Uh, no. Any real 'deal' requires concessions from either side.

Pointing out that the supposed 'teeth' of the Iran deal was met with very, very high cost is more relevant than most points. Hell, like I said, Democrats in the Senate have already called the Iran deal by any other name, if applied to North Korea, unacceptably weak.

Which is only what some of us have been saying all along.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 02:07 PM   #96
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 
And so it goes...

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Trumpville (like Potterville, but stupider)
Posts: 78,909

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Phillip Lindsay
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Tell us about the access to international markets and pallets of billions of dollars in unmarked international currency.
http://www.politifact.com/georgia/st...error-support/
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 02:39 PM   #97
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
Meh. Anyone can.

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 33,052

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Not even sure what I said you're trying to argue with that.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 02:45 PM   #98
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla!
 
L.A. BRONCOS FAN's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location
Posts: 85,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spdirty View Post
That is NOT a huge concession. Those exercises are bull****.
Just because you don't like the exercises doesn't mean they're not important politically.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 03:23 PM   #99
elsid13
Lost In Space
 
elsid13's Avatar
 
Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 23,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spdirty View Post
Did 1 tour at Osan AB. I guarantee you all that the 1 concession we made, suspending exercises, has just turned Trump into hero among 99% of the enlisted that serve or served on the ROK. Those exercises were so much bull****.
The exercise aren't designed to keep the military happy, they are designed to make a political and military statement to all the countries in the region. Much like the reason we are restarting Reforger in Europe. Side note, talking to folks that just did those exercise they are complete **** show unlike the one in the 1980s because we lost our experiencing doing them.
elsid13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 03:39 PM   #100
Dr. Broncenstein
Ring of Famer
 
Dr. Broncenstein's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sterile Fields
Posts: 16,811

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Trey Gowdy
Default

The only geopolitical crisis Trump produced is Rohirim's full diaper.
Dr. Broncenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:25 AM.


Denver Broncos