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Old 04-11-2018, 06:39 PM   #126
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Let me be clear that I'm not suggesting that we should settle for Keenum, provided there is an opportunity to truly do better. I don't think he's elite by any means, but his performance last season was clear second tier and I don't think it was a fluke or that he played with the Greatest Show on Turf as some seem to think (not saying you DB2, but even you don't recognize how close they were to our offense based on advanced metrics...only significant difference being QB). I just want us to make sure that if we draft a QB we are convinced he's going to be elite. Otherwise, you can build around a second tier guy.

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Old 04-11-2018, 06:40 PM   #127
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QB ratings speak to efficiency more than they do damage inflicted to the opponent. Not that efficiency isnít extremely important, but you need firepower too and Keenum didnít have it.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:45 PM   #128
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I want to know what kind of Offense we're going to design for him.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:46 PM   #129
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QB ratings speak to efficiency more than they do damage inflicted to the opponent. Not that efficiency isnít extremely important, but you need firepower too and Keenum didnít have it.
How is best ranked QB outside the pocket not providing "firepower?" Eighth ranked per PFF under pressure while ranking 27th in time to throw? That's literally creating plays that otherwise wouldn't happen. Maybe you define "firepower" differently than I do?
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:51 PM   #130
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In situations where the Vikings had third down and more than six yards to gain, Keenum averaged 5.8 yards per attempt, which ranked at the very bottom of the NFL among starters. He also posted a 65.2 rating in those situations. Compare that to third-and-short, where the Vikingsí starter had a 107.8 rating.

PFF tracks ďbig-time throws,Ē which would be into tight windows or deep down field. Only 4.0 percent of his throws were ďbig-time throws,Ē which ranked 20th in the NFL. PFF calculated that he generated the fourth most value from ďnon-NFL throwsĒ such as swing passes and screens in the league.

On passes that traveled more than 20 yards in the air, he went 11-for-47 with two touchdowns, two interceptions.

He got a lot of help from receivers and running backs after the catch, ranking seventh lowest in air yards per completion. Stefon Diggs ranked No. 1 in completion percentage and QB rating on throws qualified as ďcontested catches.Ē


http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/20...g-case-keenum/


Bolded is exactly what this team had problems with.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:58 PM   #131
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In situations where the Vikings had third down and more than six yards to gain, Keenum averaged 5.8 yards per attempt, which ranked at the very bottom of the NFL among starters. He also posted a 65.2 rating in those situations. Compare that to third-and-short, where the Vikingsí starter had a 107.8 rating.

PFF tracks ďbig-time throws,Ē which would be into tight windows or deep down field. Only 4.0 percent of his throws were ďbig-time throws,Ē which ranked 20th in the NFL. PFF calculated that he generated the fourth most value from ďnon-NFL throwsĒ such as swing passes and screens in the league.

On passes that traveled more than 20 yards in the air, he went 11-for-47 with two touchdowns, two interceptions.

He got a lot of help from receivers and running backs after the catch, ranking seventh lowest in air yards per completion. Stefon Diggs ranked No. 1 in completion percentage and QB rating on throws qualified as ďcontested catches.Ē


http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/20...g-case-keenum/


Bolded is exactly what this team had problems with.
You found one stat in which he measured poorly. Doesn't erase the rest in which he rated top-tier. Again, I'm not saying he's elite (hence areas he struggles), but I'm just saying he wasn't some caregiver last season (the host of other numbers I provided). He's not elite for sure; if we can upgrade, great. But he's good enough to try and build around if that's the best option (meaning our top one or two QBs don't fall to us). He can overcome below average OL play (both pass protection and run game). He needs help, yes, as all QBs do. But so do all but the handful of elite (even those guys do, just to a lesser degree).
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:00 PM   #132
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Affirmative action?

Being a yes man Butt sniffer with no balls?


Could be a few reasons why, none of which involve being competent. He canít even manage coaches let alone players.
Youíve never been in upper management have you? He proved that he can manage players at the positional coach level. He would never have been promoted to DC if he couldnít. So far, heís failed at managing the coaches which is harder to do, imo. There are many reasons a coach will fail, but managing his own coaches is a big one. Many just arenít good at it, in fact, I think that was Wadeís problem at HC.

I think heíll be better this year because heíll have a better QB, and no rookie coordinators to babysit. Not the only reason for his failure, but Brock O. was just killing the team, and him by extension. And it didnít help that he had a rookie DC either. Lots of changes for the better this year, so heíll have no excuses if things donít turn around, and if they donít heíll be gone.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:02 PM   #133
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How is best ranked QB outside the pocket not providing "firepower?" Eighth ranked per PFF under pressure while ranking 27th in time to throw? That's literally creating plays that otherwise wouldn't happen. Maybe you define "firepower" differently than I do?
Firepower is throwing for more than 1.5 TDs / 230 yards per game. Minny's defense gave up 16 points per game, a luxury no other QB enjoyed. It's like bowling in the bumper lanes. You guys are in for a rude awakening when Keenum has to be "the guy", not just a guy.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:06 PM   #134
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Youíve never been in upper management have you? He proved that he can manage players at the positional coach level. He would never have been promoted to DC if he couldnít. So far, heís failed at managing the coaches which is harder to do, imo. There are many reasons a coach will fail, but managing his own coaches is a big one. Many just arenít good at it, in fact, I think that was Wadeís problem at HC.

I think heíll be better this year because heíll have a better QB, and no rookie coordinators to babysit. Not the only reason for his failure, but Brock O. was just killing the team, and him by extension. And it didnít help that he had a rookie DC either. Lots of changes for the better this year, so heíll have no excuses if things donít turn around, and if they donít heíll be gone.

Self employed. Brock O was a clown, but itís flat out embarrassing when Brock is caught on camera in the 4th quarter trying to explain to VJ why clocks still run before the 5 min mark. VJ flailing like a headless chicken not understanding why the clock was running.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:06 PM   #135
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You found one stat in which he measured poorly. Doesn't erase the rest in which he rated top-tier. Again, I'm not saying he's elite (hence areas he struggles), but I'm just saying he wasn't some caregiver last season (the host of other numbers I provided). He's not elite for sure; if we can upgrade, great. But he's good enough to try and build around if that's the best option (meaning our top one or two QBs don't fall to us). He can overcome below average OL play (both pass protection and run game). He needs help, yes, as all QBs do. But so do all but the handful of elite (even those guys do, just to a lesser degree).


I didnít just find one stat. I found the most important stat that this team has struggled with the last 3 years.

Iíve been saying somewhere between Vikings and Rams Keenum, which is still an upgrade from last year. I just see a cloudy situation if they go QB with that 1st pick.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:10 PM   #136
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Broncos OL stands to improve significantly with the addition of Veldheer, Leary going back to LG, and Bolles no longer a rookie. And we haven't even hit the draft yet.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:11 PM   #137
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I didnít just find one stat. I found the most important stat that this team has struggled with the last 3 years.
Why is that the most important stat? I don't buy that. I think having a great QB outside the pocket (#1 overall) and under pressure (5th per PFF) would've made a huge difference the last couple of seasons (hell, even the SB season).
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:13 PM   #138
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I also assume most posters here know that Keenum used VR simulations extensively last year to improve his game. "Work ethic second to none"
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:13 PM   #139
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Why is that the most important stat? I don't buy that. I think having a great QB outside the pocket (#1 overall) and under pressure (5th per PFF) would've made a huge difference the last couple of seasons (hell, even the SB season).


This team has been in more 3rd and 6+ than Iíve seen in years. Penalties added to that. It was basically a 3 and out every time. To me thatís one of the most important aspects of this offense.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:13 PM   #140
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I'm at work, so don't have time to read this thread BUT my first and probably most important take away from the OP is that Keenum has an ugly wife.

Gosh damn.

I really hope he wins a SB so he can upgrade.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:15 PM   #141
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I also assume most posters here know that Keenum used VR simulations extensively last year to improve his game. "Work ethic second to none"
Heís probably got the among the best work ethics in our lockerroom. Or any team. UDFAs donít survive without a great one. Canít doubt him giving it his all.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:16 PM   #142
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This team has been in more 3rd and 6+ than Iíve seen in years. Penalties added to that. It was basically a 3 and out every time. To me thatís one of the most important aspects of this offense.
Yeah, but we would've been in far fewer of those 3rd and 6+ situations (like the 2017 Vikings) with a QB making the OL look better outside the pocket and under pressure.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:19 PM   #143
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Broncos OL stands to improve significantly with the addition of Veldheer, Leary going back to LG, and Bolles no longer a rookie. And we haven't even hit the draft yet.
Yeah, that's another thing. Our OL was still not good last season, but a good bit better than 2016 with Leary and Bolles. A better-developed Bolles, Leary back at LG, Paradis able to practice, and Veldheer (plus, perhaps, a starting caliber guard in the draft) adds up to additional improvement (maybe not elite, but even middle-tier would be great).

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Old 04-11-2018, 07:20 PM   #144
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I also assume most posters here know that Keenum used VR simulations extensively last year to improve his game. "Work ethic second to none"
Dmac asked him whether or not he was going to use it here, but he kind of hemmed & hawed the answer. So, not sure if heís going to use it here.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:24 PM   #145
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STRIVR technology was developed 3 years ago. I bet you are about to see every NFL QB begin to use it. Keenum was ahead of the curve.

"Keenum has been what Belch calls a model user of STRIVRís technology. At the end of each week, the quarterback goes in to Minnesotaís VR room at the practice facility to do a touch-up review and his last-minute checklist on a handful of the Vikings' passing and blitz concepts. Over the course of 20 to 25 minutes, heís able to comb through a few hundred reps as part of his final preparation."

Keenum was able to get 2,647 extra reps with STRIVR, and was why he was able to master the Vikings Offense quickly (not 3 years like normal).

http://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-v...e-keenums-game


Keenum's 2017 performance was not a "fluke" by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:30 PM   #146
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Dmac asked him whether or not he was going to use it here, but he kind of hemmed & hawed the answer. So, not sure if heís going to use it here.
It's a secret that you hope everybody else doesn't figure out quick. And I guarantee you Keenum knows quite well the impact it creates. He was exposed to it with the Rams.



So when you wonder how Goff all of a sudden "got it", with the Rams finishing #1 in scoring, don't. STRIVR is the reason. You are about to see an NFL-wide revolution.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:37 PM   #147
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Where was all this Keenum love throughout the years? No one thought he was any good until he puts on a Broncos jersey. I even remember fans who shrugged at the thought we tried to trade for him a while back.


This happens with every player no matter if they were good before or ****ty. Lmao at people thinking Sanchez was going to turn it on cause Kubiak! Truth is Keenum will probably be somewhere in between 1st half of Vikings season, and 2016 Rams.

Heís being asked to carry this team and HC.
Don't know why he has to be great or why he has to be horrible.

He could be just an above average starter for Denver. He has already proven to be a good enough QB to lead his team to a Conference Championship game.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:37 PM   #148
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You guys and your PFF. PFF is the sound a dry fart makes when you sit down on the johnny flusher. Why anyone uses them as a reference is beyond me? Try using your own eyes and judgment. Trust what you see, not what someone else thinks you should see.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:42 PM   #149
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STRIVR technology was developed 3 years ago. I bet you are about to see every NFL QB begin to use it. Keenum was ahead of the curve.

"Keenum has been what Belch calls a model user of STRIVRís technology. At the end of each week, the quarterback goes in to Minnesotaís VR room at the practice facility to do a touch-up review and his last-minute checklist on a handful of the Vikings' passing and blitz concepts. Over the course of 20 to 25 minutes, heís able to comb through a few hundred reps as part of his final preparation."

Keenum was able to get 2,647 extra reps with STRIVR, and was why he was able to master the Vikings Offense quickly (not 3 years like normal).

http://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-v...e-keenums-game


Keenum's 2017 performance was not a "fluke" by any stretch of the imagination.
Thatís interesting. In another thread I was wondering if QBs were using VR. I thought it might be another way to decide which QB to draft based on his reactions to different scenarios.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:48 PM   #150
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It's a secret that you hope everybody else doesn't figure out quick. And I guarantee you Keenum knows quite well the impact it creates. He was exposed to it with the Rams.



So when you wonder how Goff all of a sudden "got it", with the Rams finishing #1 in scoring, don't. STRIVR is the reason. You are about to see an NFL-wide revolution.
Well, if itís all that then I would think Sullivan will insist he use it, and Keenum would probably do it anyway. In fact, Lynch should be made to use it if they keep him.

Anyway, when Dmac raves about something like this, I usely just roll my eyes, but if the players swear by it, then it needs to be a normal part of their training.
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