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Old 11-14-2017, 11:28 AM   #251
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I would rather have Kamara. He's badass
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:29 AM   #252
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Yes I missed that part. My bad.
You just wanted a reason
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:30 AM   #253
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I would rather have Kamara. He's badass
I think it has more to do with the offense being a perfect fit for him and their play makers being better.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:30 AM   #254
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You(I am using this word in general) still take McCaffrey in the top 10. Not even a question.
I think very few NFL front offices would agree with you.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:37 AM   #255
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You just wanted a reason

The ( ) tripped me up and I fumbled.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:37 AM   #256
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I think very few NFL front offices would agree with you.
Very few NFL front offices change their grades on a player not even a full year into the player's career.
So your thinking...is badly flawed.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:38 AM   #257
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The ( ) tripped me up and I fumbled.
Jamaal Charles is that you?


























I couldn't help myself...
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:38 AM   #258
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I think it has more to do with the offense being a perfect fit for him and their play makers being better.
Definitely

I like what i've seen from him. He's quick, fast, and catches everything
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:46 AM   #259
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Definitely

I like what i've seen from him. He's quick, fast, and catches everything
He has been much better than I expected. I did not feel his tape matched the hype on him in the draft but the Saints were a perfect fit for him and Brees at QB only enhances his value.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:00 PM   #260
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Very few NFL front offices change their grades on a player not even a full year into the player's career.
So your thinking...is badly flawed.
So you think now that teams know you can get Kareem Hunt in the 3rd, they still take McCaffrey in the top 10? Lol. You must be advising Elway's FO on the draft!

Look, McCaffrey is a very good player that brings some high end tools every OC would want to employ in his offense. But smart teams are able to get that kind of production out of players who don't require that kind of draft capital. Look at what the Patriots do with White/Burkhead/Lewis, for example. 3rd down backs/receiving backs don't carry 1st round value in the NFL. They just don't. I'm not arguing this point with you. I'm telling you.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:04 PM   #261
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So you think now that teams know you can get Kareem Hunt in the 3rd, they still take McCaffrey in the top 10? Lol. You must be advising Elway's FO on the draft!

Look, McCaffrey is a very good player that brings some high end tools every OC would want to employ in his offense. But smart teams are able to get that kind of production out of players who don't require that kind of draft capital. Look at what the Patriots do with White/Burkhead/Lewis, for example. 3rd down backs/receiving backs don't carry 1st round value in the NFL. They just don't. I'm not arguing this point with you. I'm telling you.
There is no argument, your logic is ****ing awful and you know it. That is not how scouting nor the NFL works.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:11 PM   #262
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:21 PM   #263
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Yes and people swore RB's would never again go in round 1 and we have had how many in the top 10 recently with even more projected next year...
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:29 PM   #264
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Yes and people swore RB's would never again go in round 1 and we have had how many in the top 10 recently with even more projected next year...
You can get a Dalvin Cook in the 2nd, or an Alvin Kamara or Kareem Hunt in the 3rd, and so on, but you're going to tell me McCaffrey at 8 overall is good value?

This isn't a knock on McCaffrey. This is an knock on McCaffrey where he was picked.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:42 PM   #265
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You can get a Dalvin Cook in the 2nd, or an Alvin Kamara or Kareem Hunt in the 3rd, and so on, but you're going to tell me McCaffrey at 8 overall is good value?

This isn't a knock on McCaffrey. This is an knock on McCaffrey where he was picked.
You keep talking about McCaffrey being bad value as if the rest of the top 10 has been dominant. Fournette is the only guy who has been a stud so far and McCaffrey is right behind him in production.

Your stance makes no sense. Hell, the entire first round has 2 guys you would take over McCaffrey period and that's Fournette and Watson.
You keep digging at McCaffrey for no ****ing reason.

He's the 9th most targeted receiver in the NFL, he's 2nd behind Thompson of the Redskins for receiving yards by a RB, Hunt has 1 more TD at 6 on the season to McCaffrey's 5, Hunt hasn't scored a TD in the past 6 games, McCaffrey is becoming a bigger factor in the offense than he was to start the season.

So once again...why would he not be taken in the top 10?
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:46 PM   #266
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Not my circus, not my monkey. If CAR wants to use a #8 overall for a utility player that's ok with me.

69 rushes, 3.0 YPC, 57 receptions on 79 targets, 7.6 YPR.

2 rush TD's, 3 pass TD's, 639 Yscm, two fumbles.

20 punt returns, 7.0 YPReturn.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:49 PM   #267
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Not my circus, not my monkey. If CAR wants to use a #8 overall for a utility player that's ok with me.

69 rushes, 3.0 YPC, 57 receptions on 79 targets, 7.6 YPR.

2 rush TD's, 3 pass TD's, 639 Yscm, two fumbles.

20 punt returns, 7.0 YPReturn.
He's been arguably more productive than all but 2 (Fournette,Watson) players picked in the top 20, maybe the entire 1st round.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:01 PM   #268
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You keep talking about McCaffrey being bad value as if the rest of the top 10 has been dominant. Fournette is the only guy who has been a stud so far and McCaffrey is right behind him in production.
Why are you only measuring him only against other top 10 picks? You should measure him against all picks.


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Your stance makes no sense. Hell, the entire first round has 2 guys you would take over McCaffrey period and that's Fournette and Watson.
You keep digging at McCaffrey for no ****ing reason. .
My stance makes perfect sense if you take off your blinders and think more broadly and critically. And I'm specifically not "digging at" McCaffrey. I'm only being critical of where he was drafted.


Quote:
He's the 9th most targeted receiver in the NFL, he's 2nd behind Thompson of the Redskins for receiving yards by a RB, Hunt has 1 more TD at 6 on the season to McCaffrey's 5, Hunt hasn't scored a TD in the past 6 games, McCaffrey is becoming a bigger factor in the offense than he was to start the season.
He's a very good player. You'll get no argument from me to the contrary.


Quote:
So once again...why would he not be taken in the top 10?
I've stated most of the reasons. The primary one being value. Another being that there were at least 3 RB's of similar value picked well after him. I don't think you fully grasp the value of a top 10 pick relative to how NFL players are valued.

I suggest a full reading of these two articles for a lot of good info that mostly supports what I'm telling you.

The truth is, only certain situations make sense for investing a first-round pick at the position.

When Is a Running Back Worth a First-Round Pick?
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:01 PM   #269
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He's been arguably more productive than all but 2 (Fournette,Watson) players picked in the top 20, maybe the entire 1st round.
How about if you include players taken after the top 20?
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:05 PM   #270
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McCaffrey's role is much more hybrid though.

He's got more catches than anyone on our team.

4x more than any of our RBs.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:08 PM   #271
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How about if you include players taken after the top 20?


How about you let his rookie year actually finish before labeling him anything?

Ridiculous. Heís going to score TDs in the playoffs this year.


Bookmark it.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:10 PM   #272
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McCaffrey's role is much more hybrid though.

He's got more catches than anyone on our team.

4x more than any of our RBs.
Yeah, and if you read the 2nd article I linked above you'll see that receiving ability and/or the ability to stay on the field on 3rd down greatly increases an RB's potential value. That being said, McCaffrey needs to prove that he can be valuable at running the football. He's clearly elite out of the backfield as a receiver.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:13 PM   #273
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Yeah, and if you read the 2nd article I linked above you'll see that receiving ability and/or the ability to stay on the field on 3rd down greatly increases an RB's potential value. That being said, McCaffrey needs to prove that he can be valuable at running the football. He's clearly elite out of the backfield as a receiver.


No he doesnít. Not right now. Not in Carolinas offense. Thatís the whole point. Heís perfect for their offense.


Jonathan Stewart less yards per carry this year.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:13 PM   #274
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Why are you only measuring him only against other top 10 picks? You should measure him against all picks.




My stance makes perfect sense if you take off your blinders and think more broadly and critically. And I'm specifically not "digging at" McCaffrey. I'm only being critical of where he was drafted.




He's a very good player. You'll get no argument from me to the contrary.




I've stated most of the reasons. The primary one being value. Another being that there were at least 3 RB's of similar value picked well after him. I don't think you fully grasp the value of a top 10 pick relative to how NFL players are valued.

I suggest a full reading of these two articles for a lot of good info that mostly supports what I'm telling you.

The truth is, only certain situations make sense for investing a first-round pick at the position.

When Is a Running Back Worth a First-Round Pick?
I am measuring him against the top 10 picks because that's where he was taken and where he should be measured against. Just like I would measure Garrett against the top 10 and not the rest of the draft.

There are no blinders on, I would never had taken him with a top 10 pick but I understand why he went there and to me it's justified.
Given his college production and projection he was a top 10 pick, given his current production and future projection he is the same.

Hunt going in the 3rd round is similar to talking about Wilson going in the 3rd round and the other QB's picked before him, except we are not even a full season into his(McCaffrey's) career and Carolina is not a running team.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:16 PM   #275
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Jonathan Stewart less yards per carry this year.
Incorrect.
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