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Old 11-13-2017, 04:23 PM   #1326
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Um no, far from it. There's pages of evidence. You can get back & read if you want.

But was many posts.

Trust in Jesus is a great motto. Go with that.
Maybe you could remember to take some direction from 1 Peter 3:15. I'd hate for you to be standing at the Pearly Gates and have St. Peter bring up this passage for why you dismissed my question so easily out-of-hand.

I can make this real easy for you and just start with why you think Job 26:12 is a reference to a planet.
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:41 PM   #1327
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Then there are only two possibilities:

1) Either God knew "some would choose against him" and was unable to do anything about it - in which case he can't be an omnipotent God...

or:

2) God knew "some would choose against him" and this rejection by his creatures was part of his will (remember: if you're an omnipotent being who creates all that exists out of nothing, then what you will and what you allow are one and the same.)
You are almost there. Nice!

On # 1 He was not unable to do it. He did not force those to choose against Him, because He gives freewill. To force would be like rape. Immoral & Injust.

Also, you & I are the created attempting to understand the creator. We are in time & attempting to understand eternity.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:03 PM   #1328
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Maybe you could remember to take some direction from 1 Peter 3:15. I'd hate for you to be standing at the Pearly Gates and have St. Peter bring up this passage for why you dismissed my question so easily out-of-hand.

I can make this real easy for you and just start with why you think Job 26:12 is a reference to a planet.
I love it you are now quoting scripture.

Here is one.

1 Kings 18

27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

Matthew 23:27-28New International Version (NIV)

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

So if you think I'm going to be piñata for your entertainment, think again.

It does seem you have a special interest in planet Rahab, so I'll begin again with you.

People love to take one scripture out of context. Good to read the whole bible.

Here is Rahab in Psam 89
10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.

11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

Job 26:11-13New International Version (NIV)

11 The pillars of the heavens quake,
aghast at his rebuke.
12 By his power he churned up the sea;
by his wisdom he cut Rahab to pieces.
13 By his breath the skies became fair;
his hand pierced the gliding serpent.

You can see references to the heavenlies, Sea & the serpent.

All great context for the planet Rahab being destroyed.

In addition to this there is much more. If you want to go further we can keep going. Lots more...
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:06 AM   #1329
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You are almost there. Nice!

On # 1 He was not unable to do it. He did not force those to choose against Him, because He gives freewill. To force would be like rape. Immoral & Injust.

Also, you & I are the created attempting to understand the creator. We are in time & attempting to understand eternity.
I wish I could tell you you were “almost there” when it comes to understanding the flaw in your argument, but no such luck.

If the first possibility, i.e., that God is unable to prevent his creatures from choosing eternal damnation, is eliminated, then you are left with only possibility #2, i.e., that God wills eternal damnation for some of his creatures (insofar as there is no difference between what an omnipotent being wills and what he allows.)

Perhaps you simply don’t understand the meaning or the implications of attributes you ascribe to your God, e.g., omnipotent, omniscient, First Cause, etc?
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:23 AM   #1330
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So instead of reading you post a meme. Neat.

The fact that everything tends toward disorder in our universe (that is, if an intelligent mind is not involved) is a phenomenon experienced by every person every day of his/her life.

Namecalling & memes evidence of that, lol
Says the guy who just said, "God gives you free will so he can force you to kneel."
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:06 AM   #1331
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I love it you are now quoting scripture.
I quote Scripture because I know Scripture. A fact which will become an unbearable burden to you.

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Here is one.

1 Kings 18
I'm sorry, I thought we were going to discuss Job Job 26:12. I sincerely hope you make a connection here between 1 Kings 18 and Job.

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27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.
Hmmm...yeah. Don't see any connection here with Job 26:12.

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Matthew 23:27-28New International Version (NIV)
Oh, and here we go again. Hoping you'll make a connection between Job 26:12 and Matthew 23:27-28 as well as detail the importance of why you needed to note that you are using the NIV translation (unless all you are doing is copying and pasting for no particular reason).


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27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
Yeah, not seeing the connection here, Tone.

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So if you think I'm going to be piñata for your entertainment, think again.
No; not a piñata, just a defender of your faith.

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It does seem you have a special interest in planet Rahab, so I'll begin again with you.
I have a special interest in Christian apologetics. It fascinates me how people can make the Bible say whatever they want it to say and your jaw-dropping assertion that Rahab was a planet leapt off the page at me. I just had to find out how you made that connection.

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People love to take one scripture out of context. Good to read the whole bible.
No; it's good to read the Bible in its own various contexts and not just cherry-pick verses from this book and that book to "support" your personal beliefs. It's not proper hermeneutics to pick verses from the Bible as if you were at a buffet. You also have to take into account cultural and temporal contexts. These are things I find very few apologists know how to do.

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Here is Rahab in Psam 89
So long as you make a clear connection as to why this verse connects with Job 26.

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10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.

11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
Ok.

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Job 26:11-13New International Version (NIV)
I can't figure out why you keep flipping between translations. Why the KJV for Psalm 89 and the NIV for Job 26? That's either someone who isn't paying attention (i.e. lazy) or someone working with an agenda.

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11 The pillars of the heavens quake,
aghast at his rebuke.
12 By his power he churned up the sea;
by his wisdom he cut Rahab to pieces.
13 By his breath the skies became fair;
his hand pierced the gliding serpent.



You can see references to the heavenlies, Sea & the serpent.
Yep. So far, so good.

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All great context for the planet Rahab being destroyed.
Wow! That's quite a leap! How did you get from those scriptural quotes to a planet Rahab being destroyed? All you've done here is make an unsupported assertion. I could do the same thing with the story of Jesus and the loaves and fishes and say it's about the use of a Star Trek-like replicator. You gotta do a LOT better than that!

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In addition to this there is much more. If you want to go further we can keep going. Lots more...
Indeed! But let's just stick with what you've got here. You need to make the connection between Psalm 89, Job 26 and a "planet Rahab". Like I said, all you got here is an unsupported (and rather absurd) assertion. I mean, if you don't know anything about Hebrew parallelisms then it's no wonder you see things in the text that are not there. You need to educate yourself in such matters first before you go making a fool of yourself. I'd be happy to teach you such things. So, please; take notes.

In Job 26 in verse 11 you have imagery of the "heavens" followed in verse 12 with imagery of the sea. In verse 13 you then have a "summary" of what was just written in the form of a parallelism between the heavens and the sea again. "Rahab" shows up only in the "sea" imagery. There is no real connection between the "heavens" and the "sea" other than as a parallelism. Rahab is the "gliding serpent" of the sea. Rahab has nothing whatsoever to do with the "heavens". In Psalm 89 you have the same type of writing: Hebrew parallelisms. It's a shame you didn't take your own advice and quote the entire passage in context. But I will:

Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord,
your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones.
For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?
Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord,
a God feared in the council of the holy ones,
great and awesome above all that are around him?
O Lord God of hosts,
who is as mighty as you, O Lord?
Your faithfulness surrounds you.
You rule the raging of the sea;
when its waves rise, you still them.
You crushed Rahab like a carcass;
you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm.

Now, this is from the NIV not because I have any agenda, but because it's just easier to read. I could just as easily have used the NRSV, the ESV or even the KJV. It wouldn't matter because the point here is that the passage begins with images of the "heavens" and then turns, in verse 9 with "You rule the raging of the sea", to imagery of the sea. It is in this "sea" context that we encounter Rahab who has been crushed by Yahweh. Here, in these contexts, Rahab is a "sea serpent" or "sea dragon". It is to understood in the larger Ancient Near Eastern context with a parallel to the Babylonian Tiamat, the sea monster of darkness and chaos. It's really not any more complicated than that.

Your fantasy that Rahab is somehow to be associated with a "planet" is utter nonsense and refuted by a clear understanding of the Bible itself.

So, with that dispensed with, what else you got? Because so far you've completely failed.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:29 AM   #1332
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Matthew 5:11-12New International Version (NIV)

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven...

Better question. Why is there 50 pages here?

John 8:32King James Version (KJV)

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

King James Version (KJV)
What’s false? You post scripture like it means something to people who don’t believe in it, have no understanding of science whatsoever yet confidently dispute it, appear to be impervious to the many logical objections against your God, and then tell us we must prove he doesn’t exist rather than you proving he does. I’m 99.999% certain one of the first four options in that poll is correct. The fifth one is the remaining 0.001%, and that’s being generous.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:21 AM   #1333
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No, not at all. That's the reason they are translations. The text itself (the Greek) doesn't indicate either way; that's why it's translated both ways. A word-for-word translation seems to state it was Pilate who did the flogging. However, given what we know about history, it's reasonable to assume he had someone else do the deed and so those translators insert the "had". There's really nothing controversial about this at all.
Meanwhile, some translations of Acts 1 state it slightly differently such as...

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Now this man obtained a field with the reward of his iniquity;
Which, if you think about many other allegorical statements in the bible, is not really at all uncommon... ie The Wages of Sin is death.

"Wait, he must've had a job where his job was sinning so that's why he has to be put to death"

It's just funny that you allow absolutely no interpretative leeway here, but it meanwhile totally makes sense to you that Pilate would wash his hands of the whole matter saying his hands were clean of the matter, and then immediately head on down for some personal hands-on torture. Here, leeway is acceptable to you, because your nitpicking requires selective ambiguity.

Again, a kind of criticism virtually no ancient history with shared accounts could ever pass.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:48 AM   #1334
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Again, a kind of criticism virtually no ancient history with shared accounts could ever pass.
Not really true. There is a lot of physical evidence for many historical events. But even if it were true, I guess we’re all crazy for holding something so many claim to be objective truth from God to a higher standard than ordinary history.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:58 AM   #1335
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Not really true. There is a lot of physical evidence for many historical events. But even if it were true, I guess we’re all crazy for holding something so many claim to be objective truth from God to a higher standard than ordinary history.
Not when that higher standard is a practicably impossible standard.

I mean we'd all like captioned photos of the proceedings. But expecting that in this instance can't be waived off with a "Well, this requires a higher standard, so this is what we want."

For some perspective on just how generally incomplete and inconclusive the ancient historical record really is...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...e-1084786.html

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UNTIL 1961, there was no concrete archaeological evidence that Pontius Pilate, the fifth governor of Judaea, ever existed. There were accounts of him, of course, not least the accounts in the Gospels. But the records of his administration had disappeared completely: no papyri, no rolls, no tablets, no (authentic) letters to Rome. The Roman ruins that remained in Israel seemed to have nothing to do with him. Even his aqueduct - a project that got him into plenty of trouble at the time - appeared to have crumbled away.
In the summer of 1961, however, Italian archaeologists found a piece of limestone, 82cm wide by 68cm high, in the ruins of a sports stadium in Caesarea, beside the sea. The stadium had not been there in Pilate's time; he had yelled at his gladiators in another place. But the stone bore his name, and much else besides.

Because it is the only artefact we have - the only proof of him, and also the only object we can be sure he looked at and thought about - even the tiniest aspects of it have a huge importance. Until there are more discoveries, this is as close as we are going to get.
In fact, we know more about that timeframe in Roman Israel from the Bible than from any other source.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:04 AM   #1336
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If you are going to claim something is “The Truth”, rational people are going to expect you to prove it. Sorry Beavis.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:07 AM   #1337
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If you are going to claim something is “The Truth”, rational people are going to expect you to prove it. Sorry Beavis.
Then you should've walked out on basically any class that covered the Roman Empire in protest.

All Bull**** by your own standard.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:52 AM   #1338
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Then you should've walked out on basically any class that covered the Roman Empire in protest.

All Bull**** by your own standard.
I missed where the professor said what he was teaching was “The Truth” and that the fate of my soul depended on believng it. And really to compare the history of an empire to the history of a single cult leader in said empire? You’re ridiculous.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:54 AM   #1339
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I missed where the professor said what he was teaching was “The Truth” and that the fate of my soul depended on believng it. And really to compare the history of an empire to the history of a single cult leader in said empire? You’re ridiculous.
I guess every court case should start with establishing the standards of evidence for that particular case based on how important the case is to the judge?

Anyway, I certainly don't remember my Western Civ professor telling me there was a good chance most of what I was going to learn was bull****.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:11 AM   #1340
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I guess every court case should start with establishing the standards of evidence for that particular case based on how important the case is to the judge?

Anyway, I certainly don't remember my Western Civ professor telling me there was a good chance most of what I was going to learn was bull****.
You and your absurd false equivalencies aside, the biggest issue with treating the Bible as a historical text is that it’s full of supernatural nonsense. There’s just no reason to believe it’s a historical record rather than mythology. And really, you just don’t seem to understand how the study of ancient history works. No one takes any ancient text as fact. Archaeology is key to testing information that is garnered from such resources. The New Testament just doesn’t have a lot of archaelogical support. This isn’t a slight. It’s just the reality of studying such a microscopic part of ancient history.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:49 AM   #1341
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You and your absurd false equivalencies aside, the biggest issue with treating the Bible as a historical text is that it’s full of supernatural nonsense. There’s just no reason to believe it’s a historical record rather than mythology. And really, you just don’t seem to understand how the study of ancient history works. No one takes any ancient text as fact. Archaeology is key to testing information that is garnered from such resources. The New Testament just doesn’t have a lot of archaelogical support. This isn’t a slight. It’s just the reality of studying such a microscopic part of ancient history.
Lolz. No.

I'd say its pretty much consensus that the Bible contains many accurate general characterizations of historical events. In fact, the Bible is likely the best surviving single record documenting the age.

Now a (more sane) argument could be made that the spin it put on some of those events was simply wishful or misguided. But in all honestly the Bible has driven many of the discoveries made about archaeology in the region.

Which is partly why most well-versed scholars treat the "Jesus Myth" troofer types and their online circle-jerks with such general disdain.

Now to the concept of any mixing or touching of the supernatural means everything goes out the window... you'll also be very hard pressed to hold that same standard on any Roman history at all.

You'd have to throw out Livy and Tacitus for having dabbled in Romulus/Remus "suckled by a she-wolf" mythology about the founding of Rome.

Also Dionysius of Halicarnassus, source of many important works of the age... but dabbled in passing along similar mythology.

Yet archaeologists still mine their important work and simply separate out the potentially mythological from the historic. All without losing their minds. They certainly don't throw out the entire composition based on potential mythological flourishes.

And they still treat those works by the same historical standard they treat every other work of antiquity. And if we're being honest, the entire concept of a 'secular' history is something that never really existed. And if the Apostle Wagsy is any indication here, likely still doesn't really objectively exist today.

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Old 11-14-2017, 02:00 PM   #1342
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I wish I could tell you you were “almost there” when it comes to understanding the flaw in your argument, but no such luck.

If the first possibility, i.e., that God is unable to prevent his creatures from choosing eternal damnation, is eliminated, then you are left with only possibility #2, i.e., that God wills eternal damnation for some of his creatures (insofar as there is no difference between what an omnipotent being wills and what he allows.)

Perhaps you simply don’t understand the meaning or the implications of attributes you ascribe to your God, e.g., omnipotent, omniscient, First Cause, etc?
Back to our marriage proposal analogy:

The man is physically strong enough to force the woman. But that is unjust, akin to rape.

He doesn't force you because He is a just & loving God.

You & I are simply man. Neither of us being the created, understand the creator or the infinite.

But you keep circling around my reasoning. Would you have God force people to love Him?

If you think you are better off without Him, He let's you do that. He is God, but still gives still gives you free will. Are you saying you don't want free will?
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:00 PM   #1343
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Says the guy who just said, "God gives you free will so he can force you to kneel."
I don't believe in evolution, you do.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:03 PM   #1344
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I don't believe in evolution, you do.
I also "believe" in gravity.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:12 PM   #1345
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I quote Scripture because I know Scripture. A fact which will become an unbearable burden to you.



I'm sorry, I thought we were going to discuss Job Job 26:12. I sincerely hope you make a connection here between 1 Kings 18 and Job.



Hmmm...yeah. Don't see any connection here with Job 26:12.



Oh, and here we go again. Hoping you'll make a connection between Job 26:12 and Matthew 23:27-28 as well as detail the importance of why you needed to note that you are using the NIV translation (unless all you are doing is copying and pasting for no particular reason).




Yeah, not seeing the connection here, Tone.



No; not a piñata, just a defender of your faith.



I have a special interest in Christian apologetics. It fascinates me how people can make the Bible say whatever they want it to say and your jaw-dropping assertion that Rahab was a planet leapt off the page at me. I just had to find out how you made that connection.



No; it's good to read the Bible in its own various contexts and not just cherry-pick verses from this book and that book to "support" your personal beliefs. It's not proper hermeneutics to pick verses from the Bible as if you were at a buffet. You also have to take into account cultural and temporal contexts. These are things I find very few apologists know how to do.



So long as you make a clear connection as to why this verse connects with Job 26.



Ok.



I can't figure out why you keep flipping between translations. Why the KJV for Psalm 89 and the NIV for Job 26? That's either someone who isn't paying attention (i.e. lazy) or someone working with an agenda.



Yep. So far, so good.



Wow! That's quite a leap! How did you get from those scriptural quotes to a planet Rahab being destroyed? All you've done here is make an unsupported assertion. I could do the same thing with the story of Jesus and the loaves and fishes and say it's about the use of a Star Trek-like replicator. You gotta do a LOT better than that!



Indeed! But let's just stick with what you've got here. You need to make the connection between Psalm 89, Job 26 and a "planet Rahab". Like I said, all you got here is an unsupported (and rather absurd) assertion. I mean, if you don't know anything about Hebrew parallelisms then it's no wonder you see things in the text that are not there. You need to educate yourself in such matters first before you go making a fool of yourself. I'd be happy to teach you such things. So, please; take notes.

In Job 26 in verse 11 you have imagery of the "heavens" followed in verse 12 with imagery of the sea. In verse 13 you then have a "summary" of what was just written in the form of a parallelism between the heavens and the sea again. "Rahab" shows up only in the "sea" imagery. There is no real connection between the "heavens" and the "sea" other than as a parallelism. Rahab is the "gliding serpent" of the sea. Rahab has nothing whatsoever to do with the "heavens". In Psalm 89 you have the same type of writing: Hebrew parallelisms. It's a shame you didn't take your own advice and quote the entire passage in context. But I will:

Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord,
your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones.
For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?
Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord,
a God feared in the council of the holy ones,
great and awesome above all that are around him?
O Lord God of hosts,
who is as mighty as you, O Lord?
Your faithfulness surrounds you.
You rule the raging of the sea;
when its waves rise, you still them.
You crushed Rahab like a carcass;
you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm.

Now, this is from the NIV not because I have any agenda, but because it's just easier to read. I could just as easily have used the NRSV, the ESV or even the KJV. It wouldn't matter because the point here is that the passage begins with images of the "heavens" and then turns, in verse 9 with "You rule the raging of the sea", to imagery of the sea. It is in this "sea" context that we encounter Rahab who has been crushed by Yahweh. Here, in these contexts, Rahab is a "sea serpent" or "sea dragon". It is to understood in the larger Ancient Near Eastern context with a parallel to the Babylonian Tiamat, the sea monster of darkness and chaos. It's really not any more complicated than that.

Your fantasy that Rahab is somehow to be associated with a "planet" is utter nonsense and refuted by a clear understanding of the Bible itself.

So, with that dispensed with, what else you got? Because so far you've completely failed.
Mr Travolta,

The first scriptures were in reference to your first point. The next verses were in relation to you second point. Pretty easy to follow I think. Apparently not, sorry you got confused.

Why use different translations?

Because they are translations.

The best is to go straight to the Hebrew or Greek. The internet makes that easy to do. I'm happy to go there at any point if you'd like.

On to planet Rahab. I never said only those two scriptures proved planet Rahab. You pigeon holed me to one verse as a set up. Nice try. I gave you a verse for context.

Believing in planet Rahab is not essential to salvation. It intrigues me & ive studied it. If you'd like to compare notes, I'm game. I'll need to repeat myself since it's obvious you didn't read prior posts.

What is your interpretation of 'Rahab' in those two verses? A sea serpent? You would agree that is Satan correct?

Last edited by Tonyels; 11-14-2017 at 02:14 PM..
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:16 PM   #1346
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What’s false? You post scripture like it means something to people who don’t believe in it, have no understanding of science whatsoever yet confidently dispute it, appear to be impervious to the many logical objections against your God, and then tell us we must prove he doesn’t exist rather than you proving he does. I’m 99.999% certain one of the first four options in that poll is correct. The fifth one is the remaining 0.001%, and that’s being generous.
Hebrews 13:6

So that with good courage we say, The Lord is my helper; I will not fear: What shall man do unto me?
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:18 PM   #1347
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I also "believe" in gravity.
Neat.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:43 PM   #1348
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Lolz. No.

I'd say its pretty much consensus that the Bible contains many accurate general characterizations of historical events. In fact, the Bible is likely the best surviving single record documenting the age.

Now a (more sane) argument could be made that the spin it put on some of those events was simply wishful or misguided. But in all honestly the Bible has driven many of the discoveries made about archaeology in the region.

Which is partly why most well-versed scholars treat the "Jesus Myth" troofer types and their online circle-jerks with such general disdain.

Now to the concept of any mixing or touching of the supernatural means everything goes out the window... you'll also be very hard pressed to hold that same standard on any Roman history at all.

You'd have to throw out Livy and Tacitus for having dabbled in Romulus/Remus "suckled by a she-wolf" mythology about the founding of Rome.

Also Dionysius of Halicarnassus, source of many important works of the age... but dabbled in passing along similar mythology.

Yet archaeologists still mine their important work and simply separate out the potentially mythological from the historic. All without losing their minds. They certainly don't throw out the entire composition based on potential mythological flourishes.

And they still treat those works by the same historical standard they treat every other work of antiquity. And if we're being honest, the entire concept of a 'secular' history is something that never really existed. And if the Apostle Wagsy is any indication here, likely still doesn't really objectively exist today.
Posts like this are why educated people can’t take evangelicals seriously. I’d say more but it would be pointless.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:46 PM   #1349
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Back to our marriage proposal analogy:

The man is physically strong enough to force the woman. But that is unjust, akin to rape.

He doesn't force you because He is a just & loving God.

You & I are simply man. Neither of us being the created, understand the creator or the infinite.

But you keep circling around my reasoning. Would you have God force people to love Him?

If you think you are better off without Him, He let's you do that. He is God, but still gives still gives you free will. Are you saying you don't want free will?
You still don't get it:

If you're an omnipotent being who creates everything that exists out of nothing, then there is no difference between forcing someone to do something and allowing someone to do something.

In either case, virtually everything that happens and everything everyone does is sanctioned and foreseen by such a being.

If something happens apart from God's will, then God is not omnipotent.

Either you don't understand this fundamental flaw in your reasoning, or you have simply chosen to reject logic in favor of feel-good fairy tales.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:53 PM   #1350
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Posts like this are why educated people can’t take evangelicals seriously. I’d say more but it would be pointless.
"I only accept my history as written by secular humanists."

A puritanical whitewashing if I've ever seen one.

Virtually all of written history... wiped aside.
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