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Old 08-22-2017, 06:23 PM   #51
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Yeah, Butler, Tatum, and Hayward would be a lot.

Its a curious move for Boston, though it has the potential to put up loootttts of points. They still have an interior D/rebounding problem, which Zizic could have helped with.
Don't forget Brown on the wing, too.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:25 PM   #52
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Don't forget Brown on the wing, too.
Damn, haha him too. That's a lot of wings. Its an interesting collection of talent, but I'm not sure there's a real alpha there.

But once LeBron blows Cleveland for the west coast, gotta assume thats a finals team. Dunno if they take cleveland down this year. Though if Isiah is hurt, they have a more than great shot.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:27 PM   #53
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It was cheaper for Boston to acquire Kyrie in terms of future assets so it worked out well for them. Still have the Lakers pick and a plethora of wings.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:29 PM   #54
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Damn, haha him too. That's a lot of wings. Its an interesting collection of talent, but I'm not sure there's a real alpha there.

But once LeBron blows Cleveland for the west coast, gotta assume thats a finals team. Dunno if they take cleveland down this year. Though if Isiah is hurt, they have a more than great shot.
And even with moving the Brooklyn pick, they still have a stockpile of selections coming up. '18 Lakers if it falls between 2-5 or '19 Kings. They have a couple 1st rounders from the Clips, one or two I think from Memphis. The latter may end up better than it looks if Memphis' old roster bottoms out in a couple years.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:32 PM   #55
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And even with moving the Brooklyn pick, they still have a stockpile of selections coming up. '18 Lakers if it falls between 2-5 or '19 Kings. They have a couple 1st rounders from the Clips, one or two I think from Memphis. The latter may end up better than it looks if Memphis' old roster bottoms out in a couple years.
Yeah, they're fine. They can shed some assets, but i still would have tried to keep Zizic and perhaps unloaded something else.

I'm not big on Kyrie being the main guy. He works really well with LeBron because LeBron still controls the tempo. Unleashed... eeeee... I dunno.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:50 PM   #56
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Not sure why cleveland does this, unless the pick is really attractive.

If it winds up being Irving for Thomas, Crowder, Zizic, a pick... it might be attractive?

Thomas is coming off a bad hip injury, i suppose crowder is decent depth, I don't think Zizic will be worth much to them. So it depends on that pick
They're afraid of losing Lebron? Lebron approved?

Or maybe it went down like this?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kyrie breaks it off with LeBron 😭 <a href="https://t.co/LXub9cb1Bi">pic.twitter.com/LXub9cb1Bi</a></p>&mdash; Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) <a href="https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/900149250562109440">August 23, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:53 PM   #57
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">At some point next season, LeBron's gonna forget Kyrie got traded and will look at Isaiah like this <a href="https://t.co/7EdkaCC0KO">pic.twitter.com/7EdkaCC0KO</a></p>&mdash; Sneaker News (@SneakerNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/SneakerNews/status/900156682717802498">August 23, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;aye bron why Kyrie look a foot shorter?&quot;<br><br>LeBron: bro that's Isaiah Thomas<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/KyrieIrving?src=hash">#KyrieIrving</a> <a href="https://t.co/JirjtDgyVn">pic.twitter.com/JirjtDgyVn</a></p>&mdash; k (@9596) <a href="https://twitter.com/9596/status/900144700878925824">August 22, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Isaiah Thomas: Take me with you!<br><br>LeBron: OK <a href="https://t.co/9Gd4ElmhOR">pic.twitter.com/9Gd4ElmhOR</a></p>&mdash; Legends (@LegendsofCH) <a href="https://twitter.com/LegendsofCH/status/900148970848043009">August 23, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:10 PM   #58
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">At some point next season, LeBron's gonna forget Kyrie got traded and will look at Isaiah like this <a href="https://t.co/7EdkaCC0KO">pic.twitter.com/7EdkaCC0KO</a></p>&mdash; Sneaker News (@SneakerNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/SneakerNews/status/900156682717802498">August 23, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;aye bron why Kyrie look a foot shorter?&quot;<br><br>LeBron: bro that's Isaiah Thomas<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/KyrieIrving?src=hash">#KyrieIrving</a> <a href="https://t.co/JirjtDgyVn">pic.twitter.com/JirjtDgyVn</a></p>&mdash; k (@9596) <a href="https://twitter.com/9596/status/900144700878925824">August 22, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Isaiah Thomas: Take me with you!<br><br>LeBron: OK <a href="https://t.co/9Gd4ElmhOR">pic.twitter.com/9Gd4ElmhOR</a></p>&mdash; Legends (@LegendsofCH) <a href="https://twitter.com/LegendsofCH/status/900148970848043009">August 23, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:13 PM   #59
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I'm a Cs fan, and I don't think they gave up anything, really. They don't have roster space for another draft pick, crowder is meh, and they have ten guys at Zizich's position.

Kyrie is an absolute upgrade over Thomas and they get him for an extra year on a decent contract. Cs are probably better than Cleveland with the addition of Kyrie and Hayward, and have a pretty legit young core.
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:22 PM   #60
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I'm a Cs fan, and I don't think they gave up anything, really. They don't have roster space for another draft pick, crowder is meh, and they have ten guys at Zizich's position.

Kyrie is an absolute upgrade over Thomas and they get him for an extra year on a decent contract. Cs are probably better than Cleveland with the addition of Kyrie and Hayward, and have a pretty legit young core.
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:28 PM   #61
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I'm a Cs fan, and I don't think they gave up anything, really. They don't have roster space for another draft pick, crowder is meh, and they have ten guys at Zizich's position.

Kyrie is an absolute upgrade over Thomas and they get him for an extra year on a decent contract. Cs are probably better than Cleveland with the addition of Kyrie and Hayward, and have a pretty legit young core.
Depends on how high the Brooklyn pick ends up being. I don't buy for a second that they couldn't find a roster spot for a top 5 guy in a top heavy draft, especially if it's Bagley or Porter. Zizic would've helped with the Celtics putrid rebounding right away, plus has decent upside at 20 years old. Crowder is nothing special, but is a solid 3-D guy on a good value contract, so that cuts into the bench. Irving may be an upgrade over IT, especially long-term, but it's not THAT big a difference in the short-term. IT had one of the most efficient scoring seasons in NBA history if you buy into the advanced metrics stuff. I'd hardly say they didn't give up "anything."
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:44 PM   #62
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I'm a Cs fan, and I don't think they gave up anything, really. They don't have roster space for another draft pick, crowder is meh, and they have ten guys at Zizich's position.

Kyrie is an absolute upgrade over Thomas and they get him for an extra year on a decent contract. Cs are probably better than Cleveland with the addition of Kyrie and Hayward, and have a pretty legit young core.
They're not better than Cleveland currently.

Considering the top 5 in next years draft is Porter, Bagley, Ayton, Donic, Bamba, etc, you can always find a spot for a talent like that.

And IT/Kyrie right now isnt much of a gap, Crowder is a good 3-D player, Zizic is a good young big which Boston doesnt have much of currently.

Still have no one to defend LeBron, and Cleveland's bigs still destroy them.

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Old 08-22-2017, 08:01 PM   #63
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They're not better than Cleveland currently.

Considering the top 5 in next years draft is Porter, Bagley, Ayton, Donic, Bamba, etc, you can always find a spot for a talent like that.

And IT/Kyrie right now isnt much of a gap, Crowder is a good 3-D player, Zizic is a good young big which Boston doesnt have much of currently.

Still have no one to defend LeBron, and Cleveland's bigs still destroy them.
Yeah. For 2017-18, Thomas/Crowder/Zizic > Irving alone, IMHO, so if anything it creates some separation for Cleveland. They badly needed a perimeter defender, which Crowder gives them along with improving the overall depth. Zizic gives them badly needed rebounding help off the bench, plus has upside at only 20. And as you said, in the short term it's not a huge downgrade from IT to Irving. Long-term? Definitely. Then you throw in the Brooklyn pick, and if it turns into one of those top prospects you mentioned, looks like a nice trade for Cleveland that addresses both short-term and long-term needs. Who knows, if they have a chance to land Bagley or Porter, maybe LeBron and IT decide to stick around for another year.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:08 PM   #64
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Yeah. For 2017-18, Thomas/Crowder/Zizic > Irving alone, IMHO, so if anything it creates some separation for Cleveland. They badly needed a perimeter defender, which Crowder gives them along with improving the overall depth. Zizic gives them badly needed rebounding help off the bench, plus has upside at only 20. And as you said, in the short term it's not a huge downgrade from IT to Irving. Long-term? Definitely. Then you throw in the Brooklyn pick, and if it turns into one of those top prospects you mentioned, looks like a nice trade for Cleveland that addresses both short-term and long-term needs. Who knows, if they have a chance to land Bagley or Porter, maybe LeBron and IT decide to stick around for another year.
Yeah i dont see how Boston is better currently.

I dont think LeBron or IT would sign 1-yr deals, impossible to say now if either will stay. Lot of rumors LeBron may go to LA, and signing IT to max dollars doesnt seem smart unless it's 3 years or so.

IT, Rose, JR, Korver, Crowder, LBJ, Green, TT, Love, Zizic, Frye is a more than good enough rotation to get out of the East.

I could see Brooklyn be semi not complete crap, teams like Atlanta, Chicago, Orlando, Phoenix and maybe LA are pretty bad. But it still should be a decent pick.

Golden State is a different animal.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:38 PM   #65
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Just read that the deal saves Cleveland $29.1 million in luxury taxes, too.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:32 PM   #66
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The more I think of it, I think it's a true win-win. It's really a move for the celtics future, and assuming isiah was who he was last year, he's 90 percent of kyrie. Crowder can cover the best wing in the playoffs and will see a lot of open 3s. Obviously the pick could be huge (and they can flip it), and I think zizic is an asset. Lebrons probably leaving next year, so it serves the cave present and future.

The celts lost their best two defenders this off season and stil can't rebound. I figured zizic woulda helped em there
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:19 PM   #67
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The more I think of it, I think it's a true win-win. It's really a move for the celtics future, and assuming isiah was who he was last year, he's 90 percent of kyrie. Crowder can cover the best wing in the playoffs and will see a lot of open 3s. Obviously the pick could be huge (and they can flip it), and I think zizic is an asset. Lebrons probably leaving next year, so it serves the cave present and future.

The celts lost their best two defenders this off season and stil can't rebound. I figured zizic woulda helped em there
Plus it kinda got rid of the core that made the Celtics fun to watch(this offseason), but I get the trades from the Celtics perspective and landing Gordon.

Straight up, assuming IT's hip holds, Cavs win the east again. They have good depth at all the positions now.
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:20 PM   #68
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:56 AM   #69
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A lot of chatter about how IT's an injury risk but Kyrie's got a history of his own. Not sure I see it from Boston's perspective unless he makes a Harden like leap. He's got a nice game and all but I never thought of him quite like that. Plus, he drives constantly and takes a ton of punishment.
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:58 AM   #70
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I'm hoping my Suns can be good this coming year. It's been way too long since they've been relevant.
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:01 AM   #71
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I'm hoping my Suns can be good this coming year. It's been way too long since they've been relevant.
They will suck again, but they're a young and upcoming team.
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Old 08-23-2017, 02:52 AM   #72
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Nuggets should have sold the entire farm for Irving. You don't win **** in the NBA without a big name to draw in other ones with San Antonio being an exception to the rule.
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:35 AM   #73
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I'm hoping my Suns can be good this coming year. It's been way too long since they've been relevant.
Several things need to break right for the Suns this year. The West is stacked with up and coming teams who will improve.

Josh Jackson has to be a big time player early on, you need Bender to develop and for Booker to continue to evolve.

Then there is Bledsoe's health...
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:37 AM   #74
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Several things need to break right for the Suns this year. The West is stacked with up and coming teams who will improve.

Josh Jackson has to be a big time player early on, you need Bender to develop and for Booker to continue to evolve.

Then there is Bledsoe's health...
Break right... for what? A few more wins?
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:34 PM   #75
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Break right... for what? A few more wins?
I think the Suns could win 38-42 games this season with enough development from their young guys.

Chandler, Chriss, Jackson, Booker, Bledsoe is a solid starting lineup.
Bender, Warren, Knight and Williams is a average or better bench.

If Jackson and Bender can develop and show some glimpses of the potential you(the Suns franchise) believe them to have. That sets you up for a surprising year. No ability to contend but they should see a nice improvement in the wins category.
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