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Old 03-20-2017, 04:26 PM   #101
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1. Remarkably better? No. Better in some regards, worse in others.
2. So you think if the Broncos use that $12M for Romo on something else, that Siemian can win a championship in 2017/2018?

Fewer turnovers. By quite a bit. The passing games were nearly identical. 3rd down percentage was nearly identical. The drop off was in the running game. And even if we had Romo...we won't go anywhere with 2016 type offensive line play. It wont happen.


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Old 03-20-2017, 04:28 PM   #102
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I know he never took a snap from under center in college. Oh and **** you.
Lol, a bit thin skinned aren't you?

Keep it going with the quality takes.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:32 PM   #103
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Nothing to justify? Do you think this Defense has a championship window or not? It seems that you don't.
Sure the defense has a window but I don't see a sure thing at QB landing into Denver out of the blue. Sooner or later you have to develop a QB and in our case a much better running game just to get to the playoffs.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:35 PM   #104
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I don't know why people think a QB is locked into a style of play for his pro career just because he played that style in college. How many players have been misused in college (often for the coach's own nefarious reasons) and then were coached differently in the pros? Like: "I don't give a **** what you learned in college kid, this is how we do it up here."
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:35 PM   #105
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If teams can't score on you, your chances go up. Same stuff Seattle has used the past four years to compete for championships. Denver can do that. There are some great run stuffing options in this draft for the front 7. Denver still has the best secondary in the league, Von Miller, arguably the best pass rusher in the league, along w developing Shane Ray, Shaq Barrett. We have to keep offenses honest stopping the run and force them to play to our strengths.

Do I think if we gave Siemian or Lynch better blocking and weapons, would that improve our chances? Hell yes. Trevor is a better qb than Alex Smith is. Trevor had 4-5 tds dropped last year. To be fair also some ints but his OL was horrendous and he had no real option to check down as our TEs suck and our hbs were dinged up all year. Fix 1-2 things and I think Trevor can hit 25-27 tds this year, easy.
I didn't ask if the team could get better by adding players, that is obvious. I asked if you think Siemian can compete for a championship in 2017/2018. I've been asking this for 3 pages now, and still don't have an answer.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:36 PM   #106
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Broncos need a lot more than a LT to get to the promise land. I have said for a long time 2017 would be a transition year. I think this draft, next off season and the 2018 draft will show what direction we are heading. Team is not good enough to win a Lombardi in 2017 even if we got Joe Thomas and some sweet draftees.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:40 PM   #107
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Broncos need a lot more than a LT to get to the promise land. I have said for a long time 2017 would be a transition year. I think this draft, next off season and the 2018 draft will show what direction we are heading. Team is not good enough to win a Lombardi in 2017 even if we got Joe Thomas and some sweet draftees.

Its hard to replace 3 or 4 OL in a single offseason, not without stripping out other parts of the roster with depth. Leary and Watson are steps. Would be nice to get a Joe Thomas, but not if Cleveland is in a pick accumulation mode. (Which they are)

Should be an interesting draft day.

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Old 03-20-2017, 04:40 PM   #108
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Fewer turnovers. By quite a bit. The passing games were nearly identical. 3rd down percentage was nearly identical. The drop off was in the running game. And even if we had Romo...we won't go anywhere with 2016 type offensive line play. It wont happen.


Generally, QB's that are risk-averse tend to have fewer TO's because they sit in the pocket and hold onto the ball until they are sacked. Either that, or they scramble a la Alex Smith.

Other than that, no the passing was not "remarkably better" by any figment of the imagination.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:43 PM   #109
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Generally, QB's that are risk-averse tend to have fewer TO's because they sit in the pocket and hold onto the ball until they are sacked. Either that, or they scramble a la Alex Smith.

Other than that, no the passing was not "remarkably better" by any figment of the imagination.

You want to make an issue of the QB's, like they are the reason the offense was bad last season. They really were not. 2016 offense had fewer turnovers. That is "remarkably" better than 2015 was, considering the experience of Manning/Osweiler vs Siemian/Lynch.

Its almost like Siemian and Lynch offend you, and any positive reaction to their play sets you off.

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Old 03-20-2017, 04:44 PM   #110
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Sure the defense has a window but I don't see a sure thing at QB landing into Denver out of the blue. Sooner or later you have to develop a QB and in our case a much better running game just to get to the playoffs.
I don't see a sure thing in Romo either, but I recognize him as the best shot that the Broncos have at competing for a championship with this Defense.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:51 PM   #111
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You want to make an issue of the QB's, like they are the reason the offense was bad last season. They really were not. 2016 offense had fewer turnovers. That is "remarkably" better than 2015 was, considering the experience of Manning/Osweiler vs Siemian/Lynch.

Its almost like Siemian and Lynch offend you, and any positive reaction to their play sets you off.

False. I only deal with logic. What I see here is that some Broncos fans (like yourself) have already admitted defeat for the foreseeable future. And are instead content with the "there's always next year" approach that so many bad NFL franchisees use as an excuse.

Pardon me if I don't consider that approach as a palatable option at this time.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:52 PM   #112
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I didn't ask if the team could get better by adding players, that is obvious. I asked if you think Siemian can compete for a championship in 2017/2018. I've been asking this for 3 pages now, and still don't have an answer.
I answered your question. Did we win with subpar qb play in 2015? Then why couldn't we win with a similar defense and better qb play?

We didn't lose last year because of Siemian. He had dog**** to work with. Bad ol, bad running game, zero effective tight ends. How does a young qb with zero starts win that way? He got his ass knocked around last year, kept getting up and he'll be better for it long term. Still had a very favorable td to int ratio. We have to give him better weapons to work with. Would you be happy with a qb in his 2nd year throwing for 25-27 tds? I would. It's undoubtedly more than romo will have next year.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:54 PM   #113
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Generally, QB's that are risk-averse tend to have fewer TO's because they sit in the pocket and hold onto the ball until they are sacked. Either that, or they scramble a la Alex Smith.

Other than that, no the passing was not "remarkably better" by any figment of the imagination.
Qbs tend to hold the ball and get sacked when all they have to throw to are WRs out wide, no check down options at HB or te.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:54 PM   #114
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Your chances of TOs greatly reduce when all you do is 3 and outs.



There were plenty of reasons why the offense sucked. To say QB wasn't any part of that is naive. QB was a reason along with others as to the suck we saw on the field.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:57 PM   #115
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I don't see a sure thing in Romo either, but I recognize him as the best shot that the Broncos have at competing for a championship with this Defense.
Maybe, but after a lot of thought, I've soured on Romo. The team that knows him best effectively took the ball right out of his hands and gave it to Demarco Murray and the OL three years ago and that was before all the injuries. That's not a strong endorsement.

I know what you're saying and I don't disagree, Siemian/Lynch are not likely to develop into the kind of QB we'll need this year but that's why the run game has to take center stage.

We won 7-8 games last year when we didn't ask the QB to carry the offense because the run did just enough. I don't see that changing. If we're still talking about Lynch or Siemian throwing the ball 35+ times a game well into next season then we'll end up being mediocre again no matter how good this defense is.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:58 PM   #116
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Keep in mind, I was the biggest proponent on this board to trade up for Paxton Lynch prior to the draft. So accusing me of being anti-Lynch, or anti-Siemian is factually inaccurate. I'm pro-Broncos championship. Every year. There are many deficiencies to be improved, and QB is one.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:05 PM   #117
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Maybe, but after a lot of thought, I've soured on Romo. The team that knows him best effectively took the ball right out of his hands and gave it to Demarco Murray and the OL three years ago and that was before all the injuries. That's not a strong endorsement.

I know what you're saying and I don't disagree, Siemian/Lynch are not likely to develop into the kind of QB we'll need this year but that's why the run game has to take center stage.

We won 7-8 games last year when we didn't ask the QB to carry the offense because the run did just enough. I don't see that changing. If we're still talking about Lynch or Siemian throwing the ball 35+ times a game well into next season then we'll end up being mediocre again no matter how good this defense is.
I don't view McCoy as having a dominant rushing attack or scheme. His system is based on McDaniel's crap scheme, with minor adjustments over the years.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:12 PM   #118
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Denver had the 40th most productive pass catching TE in the league last year, 29th HB. The OL is 25th in sacks allowed per game. Over the last 7 games of 2016 when CJ Anderson got hurt, the unit produced a paltry 70 ypg average on the ground down the stretch.

Flame Siemian all you want. Brady , Manning or Big Ben wouldn't win in their prime with a supporting cast like that. The fact that Siemian sported a winning record, positive td to int ratio is miraculous and inline with what Tom Brady, Derek Carr and Drew Brees all produced stat wise during their first full seasons under center. Give the qb position some weapons to work with, for Christ sake. Romo would get killed last year playing with this team.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:17 PM   #119
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Denver had the 40th most productive pass catching TE in the league last year, 29th HB. The OL is 25th in sacks allowed per game. Over the last 7 games of 2016 when CJ Anderson got hurt, the unit produced a paltry 70 ypg average on the ground down the stretch.

Flame Siemian all you want. Brady , Manning or Big Ben wouldn't win in their prime with a supporting cast like that. The fact that Siemian sported a winning record, positive td to int ratio is miraculous and inline with what Tom Brady, Derek Carr and Drew Brees all produced stat wise during their first full seasons under center. Give the qb position some weapons to work with, for Christ sake. Romo would get killed last year playing with this team.
It was even worse, late in the season the coaches were transitioning Schofield into a pulling guard on counter trey plays when we hardly did that all year long. Having Weems compete as a starter then cutting him just a few weeks into the season to then bring in Billy Turner off the street. Having what 8 WRs on the roster when we didn't even have a single slot guy worth a damn after Kubiak and co. talked them up as the best overall WR group they've ever coached? Playing musical chairs with Norwood then Raymond then back to Norwood.



I'm hoping Joseph and his staff can at least evaluate players correctly. That alone would make our offense better.

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Old 03-20-2017, 05:21 PM   #120
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Denver had the 40th most productive pass catching TE in the league last year, 29th HB. The OL is 25th in sacks allowed per game. Over the last 7 games of 2016 when CJ Anderson got hurt, the unit produced a paltry 70 ypg average on the ground down the stretch.

Flame Siemian all you want. Brady , Manning or Big Ben wouldn't win in their prime with a supporting cast like that. The fact that Siemian sported a winning record, positive td to int ratio is miraculous and inline with what Tom Brady, Derek Carr and Drew Brees all produced stat wise during their first full seasons under center. Give the qb position some weapons to work with, for Christ sake. Romo would get killed last year playing with this team.
I've already dispelled the myth that the OL was responsible for the majority of sacks. More than half can be directly attributable to the QB.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:25 PM   #121
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I've already dispelled the myth that the OL was responsible for the majority of sacks. More than half can be directly attributable to the QB.
That's not what I saw. Either way, I know Siemian can play. What we don't know is how much better can he get.

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Old 03-20-2017, 05:31 PM   #122
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You want to make an issue of the QB's, like they are the reason the offense was bad last season. They really were not. 2016 offense had fewer turnovers. That is "remarkably" better than 2015 was, considering the experience of Manning/Osweiler vs Siemian/Lynch.

Its almost like Siemian and Lynch offend you, and any positive reaction to their play sets you off.

I disagree.

OL was awful, RB was mediocre, WR play was pretty good, QB play was awful.

Siemian had his good moments, and he wasn't THE reason the offense struggled, but he definitely contributed to the problem. He had a couple good games, but overall was not effective.

I don't expect him to be the next Joe Montana, and he outperformed his draft status for sure, but he was a part of the problem more often than not.

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Old 03-20-2017, 05:41 PM   #123
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and have one WR on our roster capable of starting in the nFL

seems legit

not
Are you kidding me? I thought a team was developed through the draft. Out of all skilled positions it's the easiest to pick up. And maybe it will be one that plays with consistency.

What a novel approach!

Yes
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:46 PM   #124
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Your chances of TOs greatly reduce when all you do is 3 and outs.



There were plenty of reasons why the offense sucked. To say QB wasn't any part of that is naive. QB was a reason along with others as to the suck we saw on the field.
Really? Of course QB's were part of the reason. Neither one of them had any real NFL experience. You're going to take some growing lumps, it's how it works. But the passing game would have been remarkable better with something that resembled even a decent OL and running game. You could have taken many of the top 10 QB's in the NFL and put them behind center for the Broncos last year and it would not have been pretty. When the QB is running for his life, that's not how you want your offense to run. We don't have enough money to add Thomas and Romo, period. So if you pick Romo and go without a real LT, that doesn't have a good outlook. Furthermore, you will NEVER develop a QB if you always run away and go looking for an old beat up retread.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:50 PM   #125
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And Kubiak refused to help the tackles by keeping te's in to block. Like they were doing anything anyways.
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