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11-02-2005, 09:20 AM
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Angling in the Deep
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas Riviera, Southern Mountains
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The Top 10 Intelligent Designs (or Creation Myths)
The PA case is still being heard. So which Myth would you choose?
--------------------------------------------------------------- The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) recently filed a lawsuit against a Pennsylvania school district that added the controversial theory of "intelligent design" to its curricullum. Unlike the theory of evolution which is taught at most schools as a fact-based science, "intelligent design" -- as argued by the ACLU -- is nothing more than a philosophy predicated on the Judeo-Christian belief that the logical sequences found in nature are not random happenings or surprising mutations, but deftly managed events created by a greater omniscient and omnipresent intelligence with a specific plan. In short, the work of God. But therein lies the rub: Which god? When the founding fathers established the Constitution of the United States, they chose to include the separation of church and state. This was to ensure that the state-sanctioned religious persecutions that plagued much of Europe during the 16th century would not despoil the young, yet grand experiment in democracy that was to become this Republic. Scientific research has come along way since Charles Darwin first posited the concept of "natural selection", an idea as controversial now as it was back in 1859 when it was first published. In the intervening years, humanity has learned much about how we became the dominant species on the planet, how the Earth and the solar system were formed and the ever-changing development of the Universe. Over that time, how we understand the theory of evolution has also changed. Scientists now believe that there is an intrinsic logic to our reality, that there are absolutes, laws of nature. Much remains a mystery, and as one question is answered, many others arise. The question now facing Pennsylvania's Dover School District is whether or not the imposition of one creation belief on a multi-ethnic, secular student body is in keeping with the law that prohibits the creation of a state religion. If they allow one belief system to be taught, surely they must also teach others? To help out with this dilemma, LiveScience presents a list of those Creation Myths that helped define civilizations both past and present... -- Tom X. Chao and Anthony Duignan-Cabrera http://tinyurl.com/9mdpf ------------------------------------------------------------ #10  Mother's Milk: The giant cow Auðhumla feeds Ymir with her milk. With its bounty of brawny, barrel-chested gods and buxom goddesses, the ancient Norse religion of the Scandinavian and Germanic countries is truly the creation myth for fans of both pro wrestling and heavy metal music. According to Norse lore, before there was Earth (Midgard), there was Muspell, a fiery land guarded by the fire sword-wielding Surt; Ginnungagap, a great void, and Niflheim, a frozen ice-covered land. When the cold of Niflheim touched the fires of Muspell, the giant Ymir and a behemothic cow, Auðhumla, emerged from the thaw. Then, the cow licked the god Bor and his wife into being. The couple gave birth to Buri, who fathered three sons, Odin, Vili, and Vé. The sons rose up and killed Ymir and from his corpse created from his flesh, the Earth; the mountains from his bones, trees with his hair and rivers, and the seas and lakes with his blood. Within Ymir’s hollowed-out skull, the gods created the starry heavens. What can we say: Pure metal magic!! ------------------------------------------------------------------ #9  The god Ahura Mazda: At first, he was only represented as two wings, later the human figure was added. Credit: hindubooks.org The Bundahishn of the Middle Persian era tells of the world created by the deity Ahura Mazda. The great mountain, Alburz, grew for 800 years until it touched the sky. From that point, rain fell, forming the Vourukasha sea and two great rivers. The first animal, the white bull, lived on the bank of the river Veh Rod. However, the evil spirit, Angra Mainyu, killed it. Its seed was carried to the moon and purified, creating many animals and plants. Across the river lived the first man, Gayomard, bright as the sun. Angra Mainyu also killed him. Ouch! The sun purified his seed for forty years, which then sprouted a rhubarb plant. This plant grew into Mashya and Mashyanag, the first mortals. Instead of killing them, Angra Mainyu deceived them into worshipping him. After 50 years they bore twins, but they ate the twins, owing to their sin. After a very long time, two more twins were born, and from them came all humans (but specifically Persians). ----------------------------------------------------------------- #8  Not ready for primetime: Image of Marduk and his snake dragon. Image Credit: J. Black & A. Green, Gods, demons and symbols of ancient Mesopotamia, 1992 The Babylonian creation myth, the Enuma Elish, begins with the gods of water, Apsu (fresh), and Tiamat (salt), spawning several generations of gods, leading to Ea and his many brothers. However, these younger gods made so much noise that Apsu and Tiamat could not sleep (a complaint still common today amongst apartment-dwellers). Apsu plotted to kill them, but Ea killed him first. Tiamat vowed revenge and created many monsters, including the Mad Dog and Scorpion Man. Ea and the goddess Damkina created Marduk, a giant god with four eyes and four ears, as their protector. In tangling with Tiamat, Marduk, bearing the winds as weapons, hurled an evil wind down her gullet, incapacitating her, and then killed her with a single arrow to her heart. He then split her body in half and used it to create the heavens and the earth. Later he created man to do the drudge work that the gods refused to do, like farming, telemarketing and accounting. (Marduk currently appears on Cartoon Network's Sealab 2020!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- #7  Hold that pose: Geb, the god of the Earth, hoists Nut, the goddess of the sky, into position. The ancient Egyptians had several creation myths. All begin with the swirling, chaotic waters of Nu (or Nun). Atum willed himself into being, and then created a hill, otherwise there'd be no place for him to stand. Atum was genderless and possessed an all-seeing eye. He/she spat out a son, Shu, god of the air. Atum then vomited up a daughter, Tefnut, goddess of moisture. These two were charged with the task of creating order out of chaos. Shu and Tefnut generated Geb, the earth, and Nut, the sky. First they were entwined, but Geb lifted Nut above him. Gradually the world's order formed, but Shu and Tefnut became lost in the remaining darkness. Atum removed his/her all-seeing eye and sent it in search of them. (Just how all-seeing it was, and what did Atum do without, remains a mystery.) When Shu and Tefnut returned, thanks to the eye, Atum wept with joy. (Presumably he/she re-inserted the eye first.) Where the tears struck the earth, men sprang up. ---------------------------------------------------------------- #6  Mother! Please!: Coatlicue was depicted as a woman with a skirt of snakes and a necklace of hearts torn from her victims. The earth mother of the Aztecs, Coatlicue ("skirt of snakes,") is depicted in a fearsome way, wearing a necklace of human hearts and hands, and a skirt of snakes as her name suggests. The story goes that Coatlicue was impregnated by an obsidian knife and gave birth to Coyolxauhqui, goddess of the moon, and to 400 sons, who became the stars of the southern sky. Later, a ball of feathers fell from the sky which, upon Coatlicue finding it and placing it in her waistband, caused her to become pregnant again. Coyolxauhqui and her brothers turned against their mother, whose unusual pregnancy shocked and outraged them, the origin being unknown. However, the child inside Coatlique, Huitzilopochtli, the god of war and the sun god, sprang from his mother's womb, fully-grown and armored (talk about a C-section!). He attacked Coyolxauhqui, killing her with the aid of a fire serpent. Cutting off her head, he flung it into the sky, where it became the moon. That was supposed to comfort Coatlicue, his mother--some comfort! ----------------------------------------------------------------- #5  Between a Rock and a Hard Place: Pan-gu separates the Earth from the Sky. A cosmic egg floated within the timeless void, containing the opposing forces of yin and yang. After eons of incubation, the first being, Pan-gu emerged. The heavy parts (yin) of the egg drifted downwards, forming the earth. The lighter parts (yang) rose to form the sky. Pan-gu, fearing the parts might re-form, stood upon the earth and held up the sky. He grew 10 feet per day for 18,000 years, until the sky was 30,000 miles high. His work completed, he died. His parts transformed into elements of the universe, whether animals, weather phenomena, or celestial bodies. Some say the fleas on him became humans, but there is another explanation. The goddess Nuwa was lonely, so she fashioned men out of mud from the Yellow River. These first humans delighted her, but took long to make, so she flung muddy droplets over the earth, each one becoming a new person. These hastily-made people became the commoners, with the earlier ones being the nobles the first example of mass-production! ---------------------------------------------------------------- #4  All in the Family: Izanagi and Izanami, the siblings that brought forth Japan and its inhabitants. The gods created two divine siblings, brother Izanagi and sister Izanami, who stood upon a floating bridge above the primordial ocean. Using the jeweled spear of the gods, they churned up the first island, Onogoro. Upon the island, Izanagi and Izanami married, and gave forth progeny that were malformed. The gods blamed it upon a breach of protocol. During the marriage ritual, Izanami, the woman, had spoken first. Correctly reprising their marriage ritual, the two coupled and produced the islands of Japan and more deities. However, in birthing Kagutsuchi-no-Kami, the fire god, Izanami died. Traumatized, Izanagi followed her to Yomi, the land of the dead. Izanami, having eaten the food of Yomi, could not return. When Izanagi suddenly saw Izanami's decomposing body, he was terrified and fled. Izanami, enraged, pursued him, accompanied by hideous women. Izanagi hurled personal items at them, which transformed into diversions. Escaping the cavern entrance of Yomi, he blocked it with a boulder, thus permanently separating life from death. (Rather like Persephone in Hades, isn't it?) -------------------------------------------------------------------- #3  The Other Trinity: Brahma, the creator, is pictured with four heads, though he used to have five. The Hindu cosmology contains many myths of creation, and the principal players have risen and fallen in importance over the centuries. The earliest Vedic text, the Rig Veda, tells of a gigantic being, Purusha, possessing a thousand heads, eyes, and feet. He enveloped the earth, extending beyond it by the space of ten fingers. When the gods sacrificed Purusha, his body produced clarified butter, which engendered the birds and animals. His body parts transformed into the world's elements, and the gods Agni, Vayu, and Indra. Also, the four castes of Hindu society were created from his body: the priests, warriors, general populace, and the servants. Historically later, the trinity of Brahma (the creator), Vishnu (the preserver), and Shiva (the destroyer) gained prominence. Brahma appears in a lotus sprouting from the navel of the sleeping Vishnu. Brahma creates the universe, which lasts for one of his days, or 4.32 billion years. Then Shiva destroys the universe and the cycle restarts. Relax everybody, the current cycle has a couple billion years left. ----------------------------------------------------------------- #2  Dads, think twice about curfew: The Mutilation of Uranus by Cronus, by Vasari and Gherardi. Palazzo Vecchio, Florence. The early Greek poets posited various cosmogonies. The best-preserved is Hesiod's Theogony. In this hymn, out of the primordial chaos came the earliest divinities, including Gaia (mother earth). Gaia created Uranus, the sky, to cover herself. They spawned a bizarre menagerie of gods and monsters, including the Hecatonchires, monsters with 50 heads and a hundred hands, and the Cyclopes, the "wheel-eyed," later forgers of Zeus's thunderbolts. Next came the gods known as the Titans, 6 sons and 6 daughters. Uranus, despising his monstrous children, imprisoned them in Tartarus, the earth's bowels. Enraged, Gaia made an enormous sickle and gave it to her youngest son, Cronus, with instructions. When next Uranus appeared to copulate with Gaia, Cronus sprang out and hacked off his father's genitals! Where Uranus's blood and naughty bits fell, there sprang forth more monsters, the Giants and Furies. From the sea foam churned up by the the holy testicles came the goddess Aphrodite. Later, Cronus fathered the next generation of gods, Zeus and the Olympians. And, boy, were they dysfunctional! --------------------------------------------------------------------- #1  Gifts from a Stranger: Adam and Eve, bears the following marking: 'Albrecht Durer of Nuremberg made this engraving in 1504' Genesis, the first book of the Jewish Torah and the Christian Bible, contains two origin stories, both of which are accepted as the creation of the world by today's Jewish, Christian and Islamic faiths. In the first, God says, "Let there be light," and light appears. In six days, he creates the sky, the land, plants, the sun and moon, animals, and all creatures, including humans. To all he says, "Be fruitful and multiply," which they do. On the seventh day God rests, contemplates his handiwork, and gives himself a good evaluation. In the second story, God creates the first man, Adam, from the earth. He makes a garden in Eden for Adam, but forbids him to eat fruit from the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." Adam names the animals but remains lonely. God anesthetizes Adam and makes one of his ribs into the first woman, Eve. A talking serpent persuades her to eat the forbidden fruit, and she convinces Adam to do likewise. When God finds out, he drives them from the garden and makes man mortal. They should have stuck with apricots! |
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11-02-2005, 12:12 PM
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#2 |
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Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location
Posts: 52,697
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 Chirp, chirp... |
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11-02-2005, 12:42 PM
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#3 |
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Marginally Continent
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Folsom Prison
Posts: 19,935
Adopt-a-Bronco: David Bowens |
Darn, I thought this would be a funny like Letterman's top ten.
You might be a creationist if you think: How could beer come to be without God's guiding hand. If God really believed in evolution, Angelie Jolie would be reproducing naturally. God really wants a pandemic to "thin out" the 3rd world. .... |
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11-02-2005, 01:47 PM
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#4 |
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High-Priced Free Agent
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reality
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say #10 is the most likely scenario...All hail Odin!
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11-02-2005, 01:51 PM
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Marginally Continent
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Folsom Prison
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Adopt-a-Bronco: David Bowens |
If God believed in intelligent design, I'd have a bigger Johnson.
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11-02-2005, 01:54 PM
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Angling in the Deep
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas Riviera, Southern Mountains
Posts: 24,281
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Quote:
 I actually enjoy reading about other cultures. Some very interesting legends, myths, beliefs!! EDIT:Well, my rep powers are on hold apprently, I'll catch up later. |
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11-02-2005, 04:08 PM
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High-Priced Free Agent
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reality
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Quote:
 to you all... |
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11-03-2005, 09:25 AM
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Tebowing the long haul
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
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Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey |
Quote:
Did you know that Newton (the father of modern physics) was a Christian? That Einstein was Jewish? That arguably the best modern logician of the 20th century was a Christian (C.S. Lewis)? JRR Tolkien was a Christian apoplogist. Soren Kiregegaard was a Christian. Gregor Mendel - the father or Mendelian genetics and discoverer of inheritance theory - was a Christian. Charles Darwin was a Christian and died lamenting how people had used his theory. Most of the classical poets were Christian...and so on. Religious people can be the most intelligent people of their time. A sweeping dismissal of their contributions to the marketplace of thoughts would leave you without most of modern science and modern philosophy. |
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11-03-2005, 09:55 AM
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Guerrilla Ontologist
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia |
darwin also believed that nobels were a higher species than the working class
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11-03-2005, 09:58 AM
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Tebowing the long haul
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11-03-2005, 10:01 AM
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#11 |
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Marginally Continent
Join Date: Jun 2001
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ames, no I didn't. hmm.
as for God(gods) or not, one can argue it either way. As for the thread, if there is not ID, and I don't think there is at least in the sense it's proponents argure, then humankind as it exists to day will evolve into something else. And that does something with the genesis creation myth. ah well, off to the stairmaster. big fun. |
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11-03-2005, 10:23 AM
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giddy-up
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: denver
Posts: 1,251
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11-03-2005, 11:16 AM
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Perennial Pro-bowler
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 926
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11-03-2005, 11:28 AM
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Guerrilla Ontologist
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Quote:
Would that not be a contradiction to his religion then? |
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11-03-2005, 11:28 AM
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Guerrilla Ontologist
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Quote:
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11-03-2005, 11:37 AM
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High-Priced Free Agent
Join Date: Jan 2005
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11-03-2005, 12:08 PM
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#17 | |
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High-Priced Free Agent
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Quote:
As for what religion "does for us", I somewhat agree with you. If it makes a person happy, satisfied, fulfilled, etc. to believe in a higher power...great. Just don't expect we "rational", logical, reality based members of planet Earth to go along for the ride... |
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11-03-2005, 12:14 PM
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giddy-up
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: denver
Posts: 1,251
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Quote:
do you believe in miracles then? |
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11-03-2005, 12:16 PM
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Marginally Continent
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Folsom Prison
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How is athiesm provable? Seems to be it's inherently proving a negative.
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11-03-2005, 12:35 PM
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High-Priced Free Agent
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reality
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Quote:
I'd dispute your claim that Darwin was a Christian. He supposedly proclaimed a belief on his deathbed. Interesting to note that it can't be proven and was supposedly heard by only one witness.I'm not saying religious people can't be intelligent. I'm not saying atheists can't be dumb. It is people's belief in superstitions that I don't share. Thanks... |
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11-03-2005, 12:36 PM
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Tebowing the long haul
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
Posts: 37,072
Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey |
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11-03-2005, 12:40 PM
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Guerrilla Ontologist
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia |
Quote:
ahso the inherrent contradiction argument. |
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11-03-2005, 12:41 PM
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Tebowing the long haul
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
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Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey |
Quote:
You said that Deistic logic was incompatable with realism. I was simply showing you that you are a bit off with that statement. You also missed the point of my list of famous thinkers and rationalists. They were mainly scientists and hard-core logicians. It was in no way a pissing contest. If these people (by using their deistic philosophy) contibuted so heavily to the direction of future empirical philosophy, wouldnt you say that their "mythology" proved extremely valuable? I gave you scientists and you gave me a list of writers (by the way Hemingway lived a horrible life) and a couple of inventors. None of these people are scientists. Franklin comes close, but we are addressing the correlation between religious philosophy and natural empiricism. You gave me a list of people that are known for their mythos. Last edited by epicSocialism4tw; 11-03-2005 at 12:51 PM.. |
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11-03-2005, 12:44 PM
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Tebowing the long haul
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX, USA
Posts: 37,072
Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey |
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11-03-2005, 12:47 PM
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#25 | |
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Guerrilla Ontologist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Future
Posts: 42,723
Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia |
Quote:
I'd say buddah, jesus, krishna for starters - But one who would say it would have ego, which would be vanity, so the one who would achieve it would be modest and not drunk on it - I love the god band-aid though. It's ok to do this, because you believe in this |
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