Some Republicans Idea of Family values .....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

Anyone who is not indignant over pedophiles.. of whatever political affiliation... strikes me as having selective ethics, W*GS.

"Selective ethics" is W*GS' stock in trade.

Originally Posted by Blueflame

Kennedy and Byrd are irrelevant to this discussion unless you have evidence that either one is accused of pedophilia...

Changing the subject and creating a deflection like this is W*GS' way of covering the right-wing's flank.

You'd think by now he'd realize that most people here on the OM can spot his use of this tactic from a mile away.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

I never would have dreamed the title to this thread could have been so misleading ......... Some Republicans Idea of Family values ..... doesnt say all Republicans , doesnt say Republicanism Stands for Pedophilia ..........
Didnt say All Republican voters vote for Child Molesters .........
What Part of Some Republicans Idea of Family values .....tripped everyone up ?

By misrepresenting your original observation, (i.e., framing it as a statement about 'all' repugs) and by using this misrepresentation as grounds to dismiss your observations wholesale, the wingers are able to avoid addressing the specifics re: the criminal behavior of the individuals named on this thread.

It's a common right-wing tactic.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

"Selective ethics" is W*GS' stock in trade.
[...]
Changing the subject and creating a deflection like this is W*GS' way of covering the right-wing's flank.
[...]
You'd think by now he'd realize that most people here on the OM can spot his use of this tactic from a mile away.

Does the above address the points I was making in any way, or are you just being personal again?

Why?

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by W*GS

You can try that smear too, but it's pathetic. Pedophiles need to be locked up for a very very very long time - whoever they are, and even if the President wants to commute their sentence. You do remember Mel Reynolds, don't you?

What smear? As a parent, I'm appalled at any victimization of children and I believe all child molesters should be punished, and that includes Mel Reynolds.

Kennedy let a young woman die because he was more concerned about his political future than her life, and Byrd is a racist - far more so than (say) Trent Lott. Again, so long as a Democrat isn't a pedophile, well, they aren't so bad, eh?

Please show me any place where I've said what Ted Kennedy or Robert Byrd did 30+ years ago was OK (or even "not so bad"). I didn't. I said their actions were irrelevant to this discussion unless there's evidence that they are guilty of pedophilia.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

Please show me any place where I've said what Ted Kennedy or Robert Byrd did 30+ years ago was OK (or even "not so bad"). I didn't. I said their actions were irrelevant to this discussion unless there's evidence that they are guilty of pedophilia.

Perhaps repetition is the key to comprehension for W*GS.

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Does the above address the points I was making in any way, or are you just being personal again?

Why?

I took that post to be pointing out that you have appeared quite persistent in the effort to make the debate about Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd instead of about the people named in Post #1 of the thread.

If I remember correctly, you're a Libertarian; not a Republican... so why do you appear to feel the need to change the subject?

[RaiderH8r]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

I'd like to see the case studies supporting the idea of the possibility of rehabilitation of sex offenders in general, including pedophiles. Do you have that link?



All the info regarding "where are they now" should be available on the net with some research. If your aim is to prove that those guys are no longer in public office, a few hours of Googling should yield the information to refute the list. You have their names, thanks to Spider.

I said there are some who would suggest that pedophiles, and most criminals, can be and should be rehabilitated. Like I said, I'm not one of them. I didn't post a link to the case studies because in all my years and training in psychology I haven't seen one single case study in pedophilia that would suggest they have been "rehabilitated". I've seen a rare few where they have seen the error of their ways and by sheer force of will manage to keep from entering back into messing with children. This is why I pointed out that I don't buy off on the rehab of pedophiles.

[Rascal]

This is my final say on this.

Yes it is embarrasing, and horrific, that there were/are people in office who committed such acts serving in a public office. They should be prosecuted to the furthest extent of the law. This shouldn't apply to only pedophiles, but to all crimes committed by politicians of any party. They should not be given a free pass simply because they are politicians...if anything they should be held to a higher standard. Go ahead and arrest their ass and throw them in jail, and while you're at it arrest kennedy AND ANYBODY ELSE who has committed a crime.

You can call it a deflection or whatever, I really don't care what you think, but both parties have members that have committed crimes (varying degrees) and their respective parties have covered for their asses. It is pathetic and embarrassing to America that such people represent us. The fact that some are only focusing on one crime is bothersome. I'm not denying pedophilia is probably the worst crime committed, but someone who murdered or dealt in drugs also needs to be prosecuted and canned regardless of party affiliation.

Both parties have criminals in them, and to suggest otherwise is BS. All criminals, regardless of the degree of the crime, should be prosecuted and removed from office. Regarding those that had prior incidents, it depends on on the crime. Obviously pedophiles, murderers, etc should not be allowed.

Some of you also claim that we, republicans, are endorsing this behavior for not doing anything about it. Well for your information I have inquired about this from my local representative to determine if those listed are still in office and if so why. But it is hypocritical to not apply the same standard to democrats when murderers such as Kennedy are in office. You can call it a deflection or what not, again I don't care, but the fact remains. If you don't do anything about Kennedy being office you are condoning his conduct.

I'm out.

[bronco_diesel]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

What smear? As a parent, I'm appalled at any victimization of children and I believe all child molesters should be punished, and that includes Mel Reynolds.



Please show me any place where I've said what Ted Kennedy or Robert Byrd did 30+ years ago was OK (or even "not so bad"). I didn't. I said their actions were irrelevant to this discussion unless there's evidence that they are guilty of pedophilia.

i get where you are coming from bf....but i also do think they have some relevance to this discussion. you have called out the rebublicans to take action against those that hold office who are on the list...(at least i believe -- such as things like writing our representatives) i agree with you - and i feel anyone who commits such a crime should be punished to the max.

where the relevance comes in - is this is getting labled a party line thing. have you taken the same action towards the folks that w*gs mentioned, as to the folks you have asked "what are you doing about it?"

i think that is where the relevance is....

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

I took that post to be pointing out that you have appeared quite persistent in the effort to make the debate about Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd instead of about the people named in Post #1 of the thread.

Not "instead of", but "in addition to".

Condemning those Republicans (rightfully so) but overlooking equally-bad scum like Byrd and Kennedy (why? because they're Democrats?) makes you appear to have selective ethics.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

I took that post to be pointing out that you have appeared quite persistent in the effort to make the debate about Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd instead of about the people named in Post #1 of the thread.

This is nothing new.

When it comes to deflection, W*GS is the right's go-to guy on the OM.

Originally Posted by Blueflame

If I remember correctly, you're a Libertarian; not a Republican... so why do you appear to feel the need to change the subject?

W*GS provides constant validation of Ed Schultz' observation that "a Libertarian is just a Republican who smokes pot" (Hogan being the obvious exception here.)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

More family values, BushCo style:

Quotes

"They've paid their money. No matter what they do (for a living), the money is going to go to help elect Republicans to the House."

- Carl Forti, GOP spokesman, on why pornographer Mark Kulkis and his date, porn star Mary Carey, will be having dinner with the President

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=44624

That makes sense.

The GOP trade services for cash.

They don't care who gives them the cash - a deal is a deal.

It's all about the Benjamins, baby!

[Spider]

Man i can just imagine the out rage if Clinton had done this ...........
The Balls of the right to even pull this off , after yelling and screaming Family values , abstinence is the only way to go ........ The Porn King and his hired slut show up for dinner ....... But there is no child molesting going on ......

[Spider]

MC of this Dinner .......... After we eat , we will Watch Bush try and Milk a Male horse , then Mary Carey will host a free for all ..............
P.S. No Cameras allowed you dickheads ........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Man i can just imagine the out rage if Clinton had done this ...........
The Balls of the right to even pull this off , after yelling and screaming Family values , abstinence is the only way to go ........ The Porn King and his hired slut show up for dinner ....... ......

No kidding.

Gee, I wonder why Dobson, Robertson, and the rest of the "Christian" right are so conspicuously quiet about this news item?

Could it be that $$$ trumps God and ethics?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

MC of this Dinner .......... After we eat , we will Watch Bush try and Milk a Male horse , then Mary Carey will host a free for all ..............
P.S. No Cameras allowed you dickheads ........

[Spider]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

No kidding.

Gee, I wonder why Dobson, Robertson, and the rest of the "Christian" right are so conspicuously quiet about this news item?

Could it be that $$$ trumps God and ethics?

Gang bang your way to Heaven ........ more then 1 Preacher has tried that

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by RaiderH8r

I said there are some who would suggest that pedophiles, and most criminals, can be and should be rehabilitated. Like I said, I'm not one of them. I didn't post a link to the case studies because in all my years and training in psychology I haven't seen one single case study in pedophilia that would suggest they have been "rehabilitated". I've seen a rare few where they have seen the error of their ways and by sheer force of will manage to keep from entering back into messing with children. This is why I pointed out that I don't buy off on the rehab of pedophiles.

What is the point in mentioning a position that a) has no case studies to back it up... and b) you personally do not agree with?

Originally Posted by Rascal

This is my final say on this.
Yes it is embarrasing, and horrific, that there were/are people in office who committed such acts serving in a public office. They should be prosecuted to the furthest extent of the law. This shouldn't apply to only pedophiles, but to all crimes committed by politicians of any party. They should not be given a free pass simply because they are politicians...if anything they should be held to a higher standard. Go ahead and arrest their ass and throw them in jail, and while you're at it arrest kennedy AND ANYBODY ELSE who has committed a crime.
You can call it a deflection or whatever, I really don't care what you think, but both parties have members that have committed crimes (varying degrees) and their respective parties have covered for their asses. It is pathetic and embarrassing to America that such people represent us. The fact that some are only focusing on one crime is bothersome. I'm not denying pedophilia is probably the worst crime committed, but someone who murdered or dealt in drugs also needs to be prosecuted and canned regardless of party affiliation.
Both parties have criminals in them, and to suggest otherwise is BS. All criminals, regardless of the degree of the crime, should be prosecuted and removed from office. Regarding those that had prior incidents, it depends on on the crime. Obviously pedophiles, murderers, etc should not be allowed.
Some of you also claim that we, republicans, are endorsing this behavior for not doing anything about it. Well for your information I have inquired about this from my local representative to determine if those listed are still in office and if so why. But it is hypocritical to not apply the same standard to democrats when murderers such as Kennedy are in office. You can call it a deflection or what not, again I don't care, but the fact remains. If you don't do anything about Kennedy being office you are condoning his conduct.
I'm out.

And I gave you your props for taking action, Rascal.

Originally Posted by bronco_diesel

i get where you are coming from bf....but i also do think they have some relevance to this discussion. you have called out the rebublicans to take action against those that hold office who are on the list...(at least i believe -- such as things like writing our representatives) i agree with you - and i feel anyone who commits such a crime should be punished to the max.

where the relevance comes in - is this is getting labled a party line thing. have you taken the same action towards the folks that w*gs mentioned, as to the folks you have asked "what are you doing about it?"

i think that is where the relevance is....

The reason why I believe something needs to be done by conservatives is the sheer number of names on that list in post #1. When there are that many instances of inappropriate behavior, it looks to me like a problem that needs to be addressed.

Nonetheless, there is no connection that I can see between this thread's topic and the new subject W*GS is attempting to introduce.

Originally Posted by W*GS

Not "instead of", but "in addition to".
Condemning those Republicans (rightfully so) but overlooking equally-bad scum like Byrd and Kennedy (why? because they're Democrats?) makes you appear to have selective ethics.

When you persist in an effort to hijack this thread's topic instead of starting a new thread for the topic of 30+ year old Dem misdeeds as has been repeatedly suggested, it appears that your intent is to take the attention and heat off the listed Republican pedophiles.

[Spider]

Mind boggling ...... this thread was about how a certian Party , Republican ran on Moral issues , after all after the Election , thats all we heard about democrats have no morals , then I found the list , the title of this thread was properly named .......
Not once has anyone said Democrats havent commited crimes , but then that wasnt the point of this thread , if it was a crimes only thing , I could have brought up alot more republicans , the entire point was these Pedophiles took part on running for family values ..
I knew the right would have alot of trouble here , Not one on the right said , these guys are scum ,without implacating democrats .......
heard alot about Kennedy , Byrd , on 2 different things , only one that mattered was Mel Reynolds ( good Job bringing him up W*GS , that was legit )
Now when W*G brought up Mel Reynolds , I didnt bring up Tom Delay , Ollie North , Nixion , G Gordon Liddy , I just said Mel Reynolds is scum , after I learned he did time for havin sex with a underaged assistant .......
If someone on the right would have posted a list like this about Democrats , i would have said , those assclowns need to be dealt with extremely and to the full extent of the law , I wouldnt have listed a group of Republicans on a unrelated matter .......
I would have said , if the Democratic party has this many Pedophiles in it , we need to rebuild the Democratic party , from top to bottom ........ Then i would have said I will be alot more selective with my vote .......... I have invited several here to come up with a list of Democrats into Pedophilia , and no one has delivered ...........

[Mile High Shack]

probably b/c no one cares enough to do it

you obviously care what crimes are being committed

I'm sure the proper authorities are going to prosecute them

I could care LESS what party they are affiliated with if they are a pedophile.........I mean c'mon Spider

no one is going to vote for a convicted pedophile...at least not any smart person..>D or an R by their name.

quit making this about party lines....a crime is a crime is a crime

[Mile High Shack]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Gang bang your way to Heaven ........ more then 1 Preacher has tried that

the problem is you all are looking at bad examples of "christians"

those guys aren't no matter how much they say they are.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Mile High Shack

probably b/c no one cares enough to do it

you obviously care what crimes are being committed

I'm sure the proper authorities are going to prosecute them

I could care LESS what party they are affiliated with if they are a pedophile.........I mean c'mon Spider

no one is going to vote for a convicted pedophile...at least not any smart person..>D or an R by their name.

quit making this about party lines....a crime is a crime is a crime

This was all I was looking for though I dont agree with crime is a Crime , do to the vitims involved ........I would much rather have you steal from me and Lie , then to molest my kids .......I pissed about the stealing and lying , but I wont get over the molesting .....

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Mile High Shack

the problem is you all are looking at bad examples of "christians"

those guys aren't no matter how much they say they are.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

When you persist in an effort to hijack this thread's topic instead of starting a new thread for the topic of 30+ year old Dem misdeeds as has been repeatedly suggested, it appears that your intent is to take the attention and heat off the listed Republican pedophiles.

Two of the incidents listed are of at least comparable age - Ahnold's (28+ years) and Thurmond's (closer to 80 years ago).

Has anyone analyzed the list to see what categories (pedophiles, child porn, inappropriate contact, allegations vs. convictions, rumors vs. proven) are listed? Has anyone provided a timeline for these acts?

I did a quick check and there are 45 incidents - and since we don't know the times that these occurred (the two I mention above are quite old), it's hard to say that the list reveals any sort of connection between those acts and the ideology of the Republican party or Republicans themselves. Suppose those incidents are scattered over a few decades - that means that of the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of "Republican-years" represented, there were 45 cases of illegal and immoral sexual acts. That percentage is not very high.

Does the above analysis mean I don't care, or take sexual acts involving minors lightly, or am a GOP shill? Not at all - just that Spider's agenda in posting the list is unfair and intended for some partisan reason he has yet to elucidate.