A trip to mars in 90 days ? - The Orange Mane

Spider · 10-14-2004, 07:38 PM

University of Washington
An artist's conception shows a space station, at left, firing a stream of magnetized ions at a transport spacecraft with Jupiter in the background.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3217961/
• Oct. 14, 2004 | 6:20 p.m. ET
Ride the mag-beam to Mars: A novel propulsion system, involving a beam of magnetized ions, could reduce the round-trip travel time for a trip to Mars from more than two years to as little as 90 days, the project's leader says.

The "mag-beam" concept, advanced by a team at the University of Washington, envisions establishing beam-generating space stations near Earth and Mars. At the start of the trip, the Earth station would focus its particle beam on the magnetic sail of a Mars-bound space taxi, pushing it to speeds of tens of thousands of miles an hour. During the approach to Mars, the Red Planet station would fire its own beam to decelerate the spacecraft.

"We're trying to get to Mars and back in 90 days. Our philosophy is that, if it's going to take two and a half years, the chances of a successful mission are pretty low," said Robert Winglee, an Earth and space sciences professor who is leading the university's project.

Two and a half years or so is the standard estimate for the length of a human mission to Mars — but that time frame raises concerns about the health effects of long-duration spaceflight, such as bone loss, muscle loss, radiation exposure and psychological isolation. Anything that can reduce the travel time would make Mars missions much more doable.

The mag-beam system would eliminate the need for a transit vehicle to carry its own interplanetary propulsion system. "Rather than a spacecraft having to carry these big powerful propulsion units, you can have much smaller payloads," Winglee said.

The space stations themselves would have to carry megawatt-scale beam generators, however. "It can be nuclear-powered, or it could be solar electric with some fuel cells attached," Winglee told me.

The concept is a spin-off of an earlier scheme Winglee was investigating, known as mini-magnetosphere plasma propulsion, or M2P2. The earlier concept called for creating a magnetic bubble around the transit spacecraft, which would then be pushed outward by the solar wind.

The mag-beam idea is an improvement, Winglee said, because M2P2 "was considered too passive, and it was problematic as to how you could provide a test in the laboratory that you could easily scale."

Winglee said mag-beams would work better than light-based space-sail systems because of the issue of beam divergence over the vast distances of space. "What mag-beam offers, compared with the other methods, is an amount of self-focusing," he said. The space station's emitter would be magnetically linked to the space taxi's sail, providing a built-in guide for the ion beam.

If it works, the mag-beam approach would open up "a lot of new trajectories," and could make quick trips to other parts of the solar system routine, Winglee said. Mag-beam units could be installed on space probes going to deep-space destinations for other purposes — for example, the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter. Those probes could then serve as the remote robotic space stations for the first wave of taxi-borne explorers.

The mag-beam system is one of 12 proposals that has just received a $75,000, six-month grant from the NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts, or NIAC. If the idea is validated at the end of those six months, the team could receive as much as $400,000 more over two years.

Winglee said the first outer-space tests of a mag-beam system could be conducted within five years, using suborbital sounding rockets. But what about Mars? NASA officials have said the first humans could be sent to the Red Planet in 20 or 30 years. Winglee says the mag-beam can be ready by then.

"We could easily do it by 2020, if we were continuously funded," he said.

The mag-beam concept — along with the other NIAC-funded proposals for projects ranging from an extrasolar-planet imager to a lunar space elevator — will be discussed next week at a meeting in Seattle. Check out the University of Washington's news release as well as Winglee's Web page — then let me know whether you think the mag-beam idea, or any of other NIAC concepts, will actually fly.

• Oct. 14, 2004 | 7:30 p.m. ET
Space TV renewal: Rumblings about space-based TV projects are on the upswing: Even before SpaceShipOne's successful X Prize bid, TV executives were taking a fresh look at concepts that had to be shelved in the wake of the Columbia tragedy. Now networks are said to be interested. Peter Diamandis, chairman and founder of the X Prize Foundation, said half-jokingly that camera crews could follow around rocket teams for a TV series he dubbed "Monster Hangar," modeled on the Discovery Channel's "Monster Garage."

Spider · 10-14-2004, 07:45 PM

exciting times , with that new propulsion system ....... who knows how far we could go

alkemical · 10-14-2004, 09:26 PM

I was just going to post this article!

Spider · 10-14-2004, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amesj523

I was just going to post this article!

Question ... if you had a chance to go on the maiden voyage would you ?

alkemical · 10-15-2004, 09:06 AM

I'd probably say yes. I mean why not?

If even it ment death, to see and expierence not part of the small space on earth i live on, but to live and see stuff in the galaxy?

That'd be just too cool to pass up.

Spider · 10-15-2004, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amesj523

I'd probably say yes. I mean why not?

If even it ment death, to see and expierence not part of the small space on earth i live on, but to live and see stuff in the galaxy?

That'd be just too cool to pass up.

Being a family man , it would be a hard decision . But I would probably go

Rock Chalk · 10-15-2004, 10:24 AM

Hogwash.

At least 50 years away.

Our best bet is the plasma engine which requires very little fuel and has a constant acceleration up to approximately 100K miles per hour. It is conceivable within 20 years.

PatsWin2002 · 10-15-2004, 11:13 AM

Guys, I'd love to go, but I can't make it.

Can Bob'sYourUncle go in my place?

Actually, that's very interesting stuff. I just don't have too much of an imagination.

watermock · 10-15-2004, 11:20 AM

I'll send my son, little bastard. I'll make sure he puts on his lead suit and off he goes.

Spider · 10-15-2004, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsWin2002

Guys, I'd love to go, but I can't make it.

Can Bob'sYourUncle go in my place?

Actually, that's very interesting stuff. I just don't have too much of an imagination.

Naw Bobsyour uncle would biactch if we tried to send him.Specialy without a ship

Rascal · 10-15-2004, 02:11 PM

Sorry but I get an uneasy feeling about this. What happens if solar winds or something blocks or moves the beam from Mars? They zoom right on bye forever?

Ugh...talk about a way to die.

Spider · 10-15-2004, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rascal

Sorry but I get an uneasy feeling about this. What happens if solar winds or something blocks or moves the beam from Mars? They zoom right on bye forever?

Ugh...talk about a way to die.

Air Brakes

alkemical · 10-15-2004, 02:24 PM

the usaf claims to be working on anti-matter weapons

Moon§hiner · 10-15-2004, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsWin2002

Guys, I'd love to go, but I can't make it.

Can Bob'sYourUncle go in my place?

Actually, that's very interesting stuff. I just don't have too much of an imagination.

Bobs still holding out for a time machine to be invented so he can go back to the 60's and see his favorite team win a super bowl

Rock Chalk · 10-15-2004, 08:04 PM

The idea is good, and I think it holds a lot of promise for probes, particularly smaller probes. But I am skeptical it will be able to control anything with anywhere near the mass that a ship capable of sustaining human life will have. The problem isnt really even control I guess, its the energy needed to maintain control of a large vessel. The mag beam would have to be more powerful than a "megawatt", of that I am positive.

Probes, particularly those going into the farther reaches of the solar system can get there sooner and like they mentioned, the sooner the better because the risk goes down considerably. And, considering that these stupid little probes cant be build with radio shack supplies, I'd imagine that lowering the risk would be the best course of action.

Or thats my opinion.

10-14-2004, 07:38 PM	#1
Spider Mr Diplomacy I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane Join Date: May 2001 Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder Posts: 84,438 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	A trip to mars in 90 days ? University of Washington An artist's conception shows a space station, at left, firing a stream of magnetized ions at a transport spacecraft with Jupiter in the background. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3217961/ • Oct. 14, 2004 \| 6:20 p.m. ET Ride the mag-beam to Mars: A novel propulsion system, involving a beam of magnetized ions, could reduce the round-trip travel time for a trip to Mars from more than two years to as little as 90 days, the project's leader says. The "mag-beam" concept, advanced by a team at the University of Washington, envisions establishing beam-generating space stations near Earth and Mars. At the start of the trip, the Earth station would focus its particle beam on the magnetic sail of a Mars-bound space taxi, pushing it to speeds of tens of thousands of miles an hour. During the approach to Mars, the Red Planet station would fire its own beam to decelerate the spacecraft. "We're trying to get to Mars and back in 90 days. Our philosophy is that, if it's going to take two and a half years, the chances of a successful mission are pretty low," said Robert Winglee, an Earth and space sciences professor who is leading the university's project. Two and a half years or so is the standard estimate for the length of a human mission to Mars — but that time frame raises concerns about the health effects of long-duration spaceflight, such as bone loss, muscle loss, radiation exposure and psychological isolation. Anything that can reduce the travel time would make Mars missions much more doable. The mag-beam system would eliminate the need for a transit vehicle to carry its own interplanetary propulsion system. "Rather than a spacecraft having to carry these big powerful propulsion units, you can have much smaller payloads," Winglee said. The space stations themselves would have to carry megawatt-scale beam generators, however. "It can be nuclear-powered, or it could be solar electric with some fuel cells attached," Winglee told me. The concept is a spin-off of an earlier scheme Winglee was investigating, known as mini-magnetosphere plasma propulsion, or M2P2. The earlier concept called for creating a magnetic bubble around the transit spacecraft, which would then be pushed outward by the solar wind. The mag-beam idea is an improvement, Winglee said, because M2P2 "was considered too passive, and it was problematic as to how you could provide a test in the laboratory that you could easily scale." Winglee said mag-beams would work better than light-based space-sail systems because of the issue of beam divergence over the vast distances of space. "What mag-beam offers, compared with the other methods, is an amount of self-focusing," he said. The space station's emitter would be magnetically linked to the space taxi's sail, providing a built-in guide for the ion beam. If it works, the mag-beam approach would open up "a lot of new trajectories," and could make quick trips to other parts of the solar system routine, Winglee said. Mag-beam units could be installed on space probes going to deep-space destinations for other purposes — for example, the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter. Those probes could then serve as the remote robotic space stations for the first wave of taxi-borne explorers. The mag-beam system is one of 12 proposals that has just received a $75,000, six-month grant from the NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts, or NIAC. If the idea is validated at the end of those six months, the team could receive as much as $400,000 more over two years. Winglee said the first outer-space tests of a mag-beam system could be conducted within five years, using suborbital sounding rockets. But what about Mars? NASA officials have said the first humans could be sent to the Red Planet in 20 or 30 years. Winglee says the mag-beam can be ready by then. "We could easily do it by 2020, if we were continuously funded," he said. The mag-beam concept — along with the other NIAC-funded proposals for projects ranging from an extrasolar-planet imager to a lunar space elevator — will be discussed next week at a meeting in Seattle. Check out the University of Washington's news release as well as Winglee's Web page — then let me know whether you think the mag-beam idea, or any of other NIAC concepts, will actually fly. • Oct. 14, 2004 \| 7:30 p.m. ET Space TV renewal: Rumblings about space-based TV projects are on the upswing: Even before SpaceShipOne's successful X Prize bid, TV executives were taking a fresh look at concepts that had to be shelved in the wake of the Columbia tragedy. Now networks are said to be interested. Peter Diamandis, chairman and founder of the X Prize Foundation, said half-jokingly that camera crews could follow around rocket teams for a TV series he dubbed "Monster Hangar," modeled on the Discovery Channel's "Monster Garage."

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10-14-2004, 07:45 PM	#2
Spider Mr Diplomacy I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane Join Date: May 2001 Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder Posts: 84,438 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	exciting times , with that new propulsion system ....... who knows how far we could go

10-14-2004, 09:26 PM	#3
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,696 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	I was just going to post this article!

10-15-2004, 09:06 AM	#5
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,696 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	I'd probably say yes. I mean why not? If even it ment death, to see and expierence not part of the small space on earth i live on, but to live and see stuff in the galaxy? That'd be just too cool to pass up.

10-15-2004, 10:24 AM	#7
Rock Chalk Cheeky Bastards Laus Deo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Backside of the Internet Posts: 29,940 Adopt-a-Bronco: Chris Harris	Hogwash. At least 50 years away. Our best bet is the plasma engine which requires very little fuel and has a constant acceleration up to approximately 100K miles per hour. It is conceivable within 20 years.

10-15-2004, 11:13 AM	#8
PatsWin2002 Giggity Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: South of Boston Posts: 6,270	Guys, I'd love to go, but I can't make it. Can Bob'sYourUncle go in my place? Actually, that's very interesting stuff. I just don't have too much of an imagination.

10-15-2004, 11:20 AM	#9
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	I'll send my son, little bastard. I'll make sure he puts on his lead suit and off he goes.

10-15-2004, 02:11 PM	#11
Rascal RIP Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 16,581 Adopt-a-Bronco: Turf	Sorry but I get an uneasy feeling about this. What happens if solar winds or something blocks or moves the beam from Mars? They zoom right on bye forever? Ugh...talk about a way to die.

10-15-2004, 02:24 PM	#13
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,696 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	the usaf claims to be working on anti-matter weapons

10-15-2004, 08:04 PM	#15
Rock Chalk Cheeky Bastards Laus Deo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Backside of the Internet Posts: 29,940 Adopt-a-Bronco: Chris Harris	The idea is good, and I think it holds a lot of promise for probes, particularly smaller probes. But I am skeptical it will be able to control anything with anywhere near the mass that a ship capable of sustaining human life will have. The problem isnt really even control I guess, its the energy needed to maintain control of a large vessel. The mag beam would have to be more powerful than a "megawatt", of that I am positive. Probes, particularly those going into the farther reaches of the solar system can get there sooner and like they mentioned, the sooner the better because the risk goes down considerably. And, considering that these stupid little probes cant be build with radio shack supplies, I'd imagine that lowering the risk would be the best course of action. Or thats my opinion.