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Old 06-25-2014, 09:06 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by LRtagger View Post
Elaborate!

The video points out that the LEDs are a stupid idea because they are not visible in sunlight. I disagree with that assessment, but that wasn't my point.

I was more pointing out that testing the LED function in a parking lot is more practical than a highway. If the LEDs dont work, just paint the parking grid on top of the glass as you would on asphalt.
So you're going to paint over the solar panel? Fantastic idea.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:14 AM   #77
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It's insanely expensive. The entire budget of the US government wouldn't begin to cover the cost.
We don't know that. However, someone did state that the energy savings can offset some of the cost. The cost of solar panels are very expensive, it will be interesting how they can make it affordable

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The math doesn't add up. It couldn't produce nearly enough energy to melt snow like it promises.
Well, all you need is enough energy stored to raise the road a few degrees for the snow to melt. We are not talking about raising the road temp to 100F here.

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The material it is made of wouldn't be durable enough to withstand the stress of traffic.
you don't know that. they need to test the material further. as with all roads, they all require maintenance. However, maintenance cost should be cheaper and faster.

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The material wouldn't provide enough grip for speeding cars when wet.
asphalt is slippery when wet as well.

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The idea of solar powered parking lots makes no sense. The sun would be blocked by parked cars during the day and there is no sun at night.
maybe the solar panels will be on the driving lanes and not on the parking spot itself

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They also mention using this system to "power America" by using undergoround power lines. Well, underground powerlines cost ten times as much as the traditional method. And it would also create a redundant and less efficient power grid/highway system.
most power lines are ran underground these days.

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Asphalt is already recycled. This is one I can vouch for. One of my old friends used to manage a plant that did this for a company called Rogers Group.
we recycle glass as well. do i need to vouch for this?

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LED lights on roads makes no sense. They would be invisible during bright daylight hours. And having headlights on cars is much more efficient at night.
this is not your grandfathers LED. LED have progressed immensely this past several years. Look at some of the LED panels for advertisement, they are incredibly bright and does not fade out because of the sun. Look at LED headlights, they are brighter than the sun. I have no doubt LED technology will someday replace the halogen and fluorescent bulbs one day.
The LED's on my reef aquarium is so intense that i have to turn them down or risk bleaching "burning" my corals. The only negative on LED's is the cost. Replacing 8 par38 LED bulbs in my kitchen cost me over $200.

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It really is a pretty interesting video. makes me wish I paid more attention in science class.
i did, one of my best subject.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:35 AM   #78
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We don't know that. However, someone did state that the energy savings can offset some of the cost. The cost of solar panels are very expensive, it will be interesting how they can make it affordable
They can't, at least not in the foreseeable future.

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Well, all you need is enough energy stored to raise the road a few degrees for the snow to melt. We are not talking about raising the road temp to 100F here.
That is a lot of drain. Even just a few amps over thousands of square miles of road would be strain on the grid. And remember they aren't contributing during this because it's freaking snowing outside so there is no sun to charge the heating elements in the panels. In major snow storms it would snow faster than a super hot element could handle anyway.


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you don't know that. they need to test the material further. as with all roads, they all require maintenance. However, maintenance cost should be cheaper and faster.
Yes he does know that. We know the properties of tempered glass. This isn't some magical new glass. I don't know if you're aware, but asphalt is actually soft and spongy. It has some give as far hard surfaces go and is easy on the wheel. It also pours so it can fill in odd shapes, groves and makes an uneven road even very easily. It's also cheap. And where are you getting that maintenance would be "cheaper and faster"? The panels would be incredibly expensive and you'd need to remove an entire piece of road. Right now they pour tar or just patch it. Even if it was some magical new glass, that would make it even more expensive.



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asphalt is slippery when wet as well.
It really isn't. And asphalt gets better grip as it is used unlike glass, which slowly becomes a black ice death trap.


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maybe the solar panels will be on the driving lanes and not on the parking spot itself
What about during rush hour? No light will get through because of cars bumper to bumper.


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most power lines are ran underground these days.
No.



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we recycle glass as well. do i need to vouch for this?
We don't typically recycle high performance tempered glass. It's construction is expensive.



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i did, one of my best subject.
Based on your responses, I am not seeing a correlation here. A lot of what you posted was not only false, but in some cases the opposite of reality.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:43 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
So you're going to paint over the solar panel? Fantastic idea.
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Originally Posted by LRtagger View Post
I seriously doubt a 2" wide line every 6-8' is going to compromise power production - especially when you consider the lines are being painted in lieu of powering LEDs non stop.

For a parking lot in its entirety, parking space grid lines would cover what...2% of the entire surface?
a 2" line every 72" is less than 3%. This also assumes all drive aisles and lanes will have a line every 6', which they will not. Total paint coverage is a whopping 2%.

Which will hinder ultimate usable power output more...covering 2% of the panels with paint or using the panels to power tens of thousands of LEDs?

I would say at a minimum it would be an even trade.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:47 AM   #80
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Why are you guys trying to fix this horrible idea? It's stupid. It's a stupid idea flawed in so many ways. There are better ways of doing the same thing.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:49 AM   #81
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Do you work for the government?
No. I am kind of playing devils advocate. I do work for an alternative energy firm.

There are definite flaws with the idea, but I think the idea is worth additional research and testing to determine the if it is a real solution.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:57 AM   #82
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Why are you guys trying to fix this horrible idea? It's stupid. It's a stupid idea flawed in so many ways. There are better ways of doing the same thing.
Replacing the entire infrastructure with these panels is probably a dumb idea, but with further development they could be used for something. I don't think there are enough negatives yet to scrap the idea.

Like I said before...if a Walmart could use these panels in their parking lots and supply 10% of their monthly load demands, that is a 10% reduction in their strain on the local utility grid. That will ultimately help local power infrastructure as well. If they make this change across the board, it reduces the load strain on the grid nationwide. Most Walmarts are pulling between 600kW and 2MW at any given time.

The company I work for does the same thing with distributed generation, solar/wind power, and LED lighting.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:08 AM   #83
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Can't even afford to take care of potholes and cracks......
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:27 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by LRtagger View Post
Replacing the entire infrastructure with these panels is probably a dumb idea, but with further development they could be used for something. I don't think there are enough negatives yet to scrap the idea.

Like I said before...if a Walmart could use these panels in their parking lots and supply 10% of their monthly load demands, that is a 10% reduction in their strain on the local utility grid. That will ultimately help local power infrastructure as well. If they make this change across the board, it reduces the load strain on the grid nationwide. Most Walmarts are pulling between 600kW and 2MW at any given time.

The company I work for does the same thing with distributed generation, solar/wind power, and LED lighting.
As has been stated, you could build solar panels along the sides of the streets and highways. You could put them at an angle so snow and rain rolled down and they face towards the sun more directly. And all without having to make a special glass, a heater or LED's. I don't understand why the proponents of this idea are so married to the "we must DRIVE on the solar panels!" aspect of it.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:14 AM   #85
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That is a lot of drain. Even just a few amps over thousands of square miles of road would be strain on the grid. And remember they aren't contributing during this because it's freaking snowing outside so there is no sun to charge the heating elements in the panels. In major snow storms it would snow faster than a super hot element could handle anyway.
you have done the math on the power drain? the heating element, do u even know the power draw? do you know the efficiency of the panels or the real science behind this technology?

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Yes he does know that. We know the properties of tempered glass. This isn't some magical new glass. I don't know if you're aware, but asphalt is actually soft and spongy. It has some give as far hard surfaces go and is easy on the wheel. It also pours so it can fill in odd shapes, groves and makes an uneven road even very easily. It's also cheap. And where are you getting that maintenance would be "cheaper and faster"? The panels would be incredibly expensive and you'd need to remove an entire piece of road. Right now they pour tar or just patch it. Even if it was some magical new glass, that would make it even more expensive.
i'm not a CE or ME guy that can tell you the properties of tempered glass. i guess you got some serious education into tempered glass to know the physical properties and how it interacts.

where am i getting its cheaper and faster? i am guessing that the panels will be in sections. hopefully they can make it to where its easy to remove and install just like your windshield. have you seen them repair roads? it takes forever. shut down the lane for a weeks. yes the little cracks and potholes can be filled quite easily, but its not always little cracks and potholes.


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It really isn't. And asphalt gets better grip as it is used unlike glass, which slowly becomes a black ice death trap.
again, im not an expert on glass and rubber, but obviously you are. all i know is rubber does get some very good grip on glass with water. look at suction cups. why do people wet them so they can get a good seal on glass? maybe sealing and grip is separate or it could be correlated. i don't know.

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What about during rush hour? No light will get through because of cars bumper to bumper.
we are talking about parking lots. i have never seen a bumper to bumper traffic jam on a parking lot. even at walmart during black friday.
i said put the solar panels on the drive portion of the parking lots and not the parking spot itself.

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No.
thats weird, i don't see many power lines where i live. i don't see any power lines in the small city i live. the only time i ever see a power line is driving past the small power distro sites.


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We don't typically recycle high performance tempered glass. It's construction is expensive.
wow, u are an expert on glass. you even know what is recycled and what isn't. you even know the construction cost. impressive

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Based on your responses, I am not seeing a correlation here. A lot of what you posted was not only false, but in some cases the opposite of reality.
here is my point. obviously someone put many hours of research and thought into this. we are not talking about some guy who spend a night at the bar talking crap and decided to put his ideas on youtube the following morning. ofcourse all your concerns and doubt has been questioned. what they have right now is a very rough prototype. maybe you're right, its not feasible and this is a wild dream. But the guys does have a working prototype. maybe you should give it a chance. unless you are the foremost expert on glass, solar panels, and heating elements with a EE degree, i tend to give someone who actually had put down time and money to do research and has a working prototype some credit.

yes, you are correct my education didn't correlate with this, i was a biology major. its still science though!
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:23 AM   #86
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No. I am kind of playing devils advocate. I do work for an alternative energy firm.

There are definite flaws with the idea, but I think the idea is worth additional research and testing to determine the if it is a real solution.
You need a new avatar, she's dead now.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:46 AM   #87
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Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't they figured out how to store the energy gained from things like solar panels??
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:47 AM   #88
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Lol. We can't even mobilize the process of updating our woefully outdated and in some cases, dangerous power grid and we're going to build magic glass Tron roads.

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Old 06-25-2014, 12:04 PM   #89
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Lol. We can't even mobilize the process of updating our woefully outdated and in some cases, dangerous power grid and we're going to build magic glass Tron roads.

that comes down to the local area. some cities have better infrastructure than others. some cities have perfect roads, some doesn't.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:17 PM   #90
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Why are you guys trying to fix this horrible idea? It's stupid. It's a stupid idea flawed in so many ways. There are better ways of doing the same thing.
Why cant we make a floating island of solar panels, 2/3's of the earth is covered in water......someone smarter than me has to have a good reason why
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:26 PM   #91
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As has been stated, you could build solar panels along the sides of the streets and highways. You could put them at an angle so snow and rain rolled down and they face towards the sun more directly. And all without having to make a special glass, a heater or LED's. I don't understand why the proponents of this idea are so married to the "we must DRIVE on the solar panels!" aspect of it.
I'm not advocating replacing everything with these panels, but there's been nothing said so far that has convinced me that they should scrap the idea altogether. It could be developed into something that is cost effective and energy efficient with some more R&D. It doesn't mean they have to go out tomorrow and start replacing interstates with it.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:28 PM   #92
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Lol. We can't even mobilize the process of updating our woefully outdated and in some cases, dangerous power grid and we're going to build magic glass Tron roads.

This is exactly why private companies need to develop alternate resources like these - to lessen the demand on our outdated and in some cases inefficient utility infrastructure. It is the sole purpose of the company I work for.

http://powersecure.com
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:24 PM   #93
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I mostly think alternate energy is a joke. Large companies driven by politics only care about numbers and not the output. However, these small guys with an idea are driven by their ideas and not the cash in their pockets are true innovators. This idea even though might not sound realistic is pure genius.
I'm sick of driving on icy bridges here in Dallas. It is extremely dangerous and no matter how much they salt it down, it still freezes. Maybe this might work. It's better than whatever the government has come up with.
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