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Old 06-23-2014, 04:19 PM   #626
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@ 2 billion dollars.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:20 PM   #627
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Actually, it's very simple. There are two decisive courses of action to take: ...
In other words, if he picks door #1 and it fails you and yours will be there with the pitchforks and torches, and if he picks door #2 and it fails you and yours will likewise be there with the pitchforks and torches. And since either option is probably going to fail, Obama can't win. Very similar to the economic mess he inherited...
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:21 PM   #628
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In other words, if he picks door #1 and it fails you and yours will be there with the pitchforks and torches, and if he picks door #2 and it fails you and yours will likewise be there with the pitchforks and torches. And since either option is probably going to fail, Obama can't win. Very similar to the economic mess he inherited...
And if any option fails, you'll blame it on "the mess he inherited." Bit if any option succeeds, it'll be because of stunning prescience and "Smart Power"
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:23 PM   #629
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@ 2 billion dollars.
laugh it up

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Old 06-23-2014, 04:24 PM   #630
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:24 PM   #631
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As you can see from the result of Obama's policies, he is the one with no clue. Actually, it's very simple. There are two decisive courses of action to take:

1. If the US truly has national interests in Iraq (as Obama claims), letting it get to this point was a big-time failure. Obama armed the Syrian extremists who are now in Iraq. Iraq has plunged into chaos. If the US truly has national interests in Iraq, Obama has failed in protecting those interests.

2. If you are in the camp that thinks the US has no national interest in Iraq, then stay out. What the heck has Obama been doing there for the last several years? Why does he continue to contribute to instability by picking sides and sending American troops?

Obama has chosen neither route. He has instead greatly contributed to Iraq's instability, and continues to do so.
So WTF is the answer....other than Saddam should have been left in place to keep the lid on Iraq. As despicable as he was, he wasn't our problem.

We couldn't leave that mess of a country alone, we just had to stick our faces into a hornets nest.

US foreign policy in Iraq has been a disaster from the moment we invaded, suddenly deciding only one party is responsible for that mess is dishonest and nothing more than the usual partisan bull****. Both voted to go in.

You think you have the solution to the 'Arab problem'? What is it??
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:28 PM   #632
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The plan shouldn't be try to have free elections obviously. You want puppet govts who do our bidding. The notion we can be fair is lunacy. We have to be heavy handed.

Islamic fighters don't understand the open hand of Obama. They only understand the closed fist of seeing fuel air bombs dropped on them.

If it was me i would gain control of the skies with an aircraft carrier. Then I would tell ISIS and large gathering of your troops will be bombed into the stone age. If you move a large amount of troops, or form an army, we drop fuel air bombs on you.

Trust me when you drop 5 fuel air bombs over a battlefield there will be no one left to fight.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:29 PM   #633
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Saddam could have stayed but he invaded Kuwait then become a thorn in our side. Then he had to go. Gaddaffi, Mubarek and to some extent even Assad were playing ball.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:29 PM   #634
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And if we could get Egypt back for only 2 billion a yr then write the ****ing check.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:37 PM   #635
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Breaking news

Iraq key refinery 'seized by rebels'


Iraq's biggest oil refinery at Baiji, north of Baghdad, reported to have been fully captured by Sunni rebels


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27990478
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:48 PM   #636
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I wonder when oil prices will go up.
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Old 06-23-2014, 06:39 PM   #637
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So WTF is the answer....other than Saddam should have been left in place to keep the lid on Iraq. As despicable as he was, he wasn't our problem.

We couldn't leave that mess of a country alone, we just had to stick our faces into a hornets nest.

US foreign policy in Iraq has been a disaster from the moment we invaded, suddenly deciding only one party is responsible for that mess is dishonest and nothing more than the usual partisan bull****. Both voted to go in.

You think you have the solution to the 'Arab problem'? What is it??
Bush, Obama, and al-Maliki all have blame. Bush is out of office. al-Maliki is a stooge. Obama is the only person who is important from the US side at this time.

Yes, I have a solution to the 'Arab problem':

1. Leave them alone - No muslim would present any threat to the US if we simply removed military occupation from where they live. Stop drone bombing civilians. Stop trying to influence the outcome of their elections. Stop trying to make them live like us. Stop de-stabilizing their governments.

Unfortunately, this is the exact opposite policy of the Obama administration.

2. Enforce the anti-nuclear proliferation treaty - One thing that is in US interests is preventing other countries from getting nuclear weapons if they don't have them already. There is a strict set of rules according to the anti-nuclear proliferation treaty of what steps the UN should take in order to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons. This protocol should be strictly followed by the US, starting with sanctions, and ending in military action to remove nuclear facilities if necessary. The US can not waver on this, nor can we afford to wait for non-committal bankrupt European countries to do nothing. After completing the protocol, if a nation (such as Iran) continues to pursue nuclear weapons, they must face uni-lateral military from the US to remove the nuclear threat.

Unfortunately, this is also the exact opposite policy of the Obama administration.

3. Energy independence - No thanks to the Obama administration, the US now is the worlds largest oil producer due to the fracking revolution. The US must continue to pursue energy dependency, including fracking, aggressively drilling off-shore, and completing the Keystone XL pipeline.

Again, this is the exact opposite policy of the Obama administration.



Do those 3 things, and there is no more 'Arab problem'. It's a simple solution, and unfortunately Democrats are really the only ones who don't get it. They literally keep doing EVERYTHING WRONG.

Last edited by pricejj; 06-23-2014 at 06:41 PM..
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:31 PM   #638
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And if we could get Egypt back for only 2 billion a yr then write the ****ing check.
That's what I was waiting for. Think of our children.they will have to pay for this
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:54 PM   #639
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The plan shouldn't be try to have free elections obviously. You want puppet govts who do our bidding. The notion we can be fair is lunacy. We have to be heavy handed.

Islamic fighters don't understand the open hand of Obama. They only understand the closed fist of seeing fuel air bombs dropped on them.

If it was me i would gain control of the skies with an aircraft carrier. Then I would tell ISIS and large gathering of your troops will be bombed into the stone age. If you move a large amount of troops, or form an army, we drop fuel air bombs on you.

Trust me when you drop 5 fuel air bombs over a battlefield there will be no one left to fight.
Seriously?!?! You can’t be for real? Are you ignoring immense historical precedent or ignorant? Throwing bombs around is absolutely not the answer. GTFO. Just GTFO.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:55 PM   #640
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I got bad poison ivy and didn’t even go into the woods. Got it from my dog.

Goddammit Obama. You’re the worst.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:56 PM   #641
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That's what I was waiting for. Think of our children.they will have to pay for this
They will pay for it more by doing it your hands off way. Wait until Turkey has to handle the Kurds or something escalates this.

It's better for the USA to keep people in power that will play ball with US policy. The region will never be stable because the people living their are religious zealots and can't get a long. It's literally the dark ages when it comes to that.

Obama and his apology tour, lead from behind the scenes BS isn't working.
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Old 06-24-2014, 05:06 AM   #642
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I got bad poison ivy and didn’t even go into the woods. Got it from my dog.

Goddammit Obama. You’re the worst.
You named your dog Obama? No wonder the dog doesn't like you.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:13 AM   #643
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:22 AM   #644
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Stewart is a national treasure.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:38 AM   #645
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Bush, Obama, and al-Maliki all have blame. Bush is out of office. al-Maliki is a stooge. Obama is the only person who is important from the US side at this time.

Yes, I have a solution to the 'Arab problem':

1. Leave them alone - No muslim would present any threat to the US if we simply removed military occupation from where they live. Stop drone bombing civilians. Stop trying to influence the outcome of their elections. Stop trying to make them live like us. Stop de-stabilizing their governments.

Unfortunately, this is the exact opposite policy of the Obama administration.

2. Enforce the anti-nuclear proliferation treaty - One thing that is in US interests is preventing other countries from getting nuclear weapons if they don't have them already. There is a strict set of rules according to the anti-nuclear proliferation treaty of what steps the UN should take in order to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons. This protocol should be strictly followed by the US, starting with sanctions, and ending in military action to remove nuclear facilities if necessary. The US can not waver on this, nor can we afford to wait for non-committal bankrupt European countries to do nothing. After completing the protocol, if a nation (such as Iran) continues to pursue nuclear weapons, they must face uni-lateral military from the US to remove the nuclear threat.

Unfortunately, this is also the exact opposite policy of the Obama administration.

3. Energy independence - No thanks to the Obama administration, the US now is the worlds largest oil producer due to the fracking revolution. The US must continue to pursue energy dependency, including fracking, aggressively drilling off-shore, and completing the Keystone XL pipeline.

Again, this is the exact opposite policy of the Obama administration.



Do those 3 things, and there is no more 'Arab problem'. It's a simple solution, and unfortunately Democrats are really the only ones who don't get it. They literally keep doing EVERYTHING WRONG.
Fascinating, but that ship sailed when we invaded Iraq and sent all the Sunnis home....fully armed, pissed off and ready to start killing US troops.
Then we put an Iranian puppet, Maliki, in control of the country, who has made sure Sunnis have no role in their own country. So here we are.

So what's the solution to Iraq and Isis today? Too late to leave them alone, unless you like the idea of a massive, state sanctioned, terrorist
organization being run from Iraq and probably Syria. How do we stop Isis without appearing to be favoring the Shias. Bombing isn't a sound option,
unless we want to reinforce the perception we are pro Shia, anti Sunni.

Iraq's neighbors are all Sunni....except Iran, it's time they all stepped up and took care of policing their 'hood'. Unless they want the fundamentalism to
spread into their dictatorships or shaky democracy (Turkey). Providing advisers to give the Iraqis 'backbone' is really the only sensible military
option, the real solution is political.

It always has been.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:39 AM   #646
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I don't usually agree with the Cato Institute, but...

Rather than acknowledge their own responsibility for that nation's implosion, the neocons prefer to blame President Obama, who merely followed the withdrawal schedule established by President George W. Bush. The latter failed to win Baghdad's agreement for a continuing U.S. force presence before leaving office. Exactly how President Obama could have forced sovereign Iraq to accept a permanent U.S. garrison never has been explained.

Even less clear is how American troops could have created a liberal, democratic, and stable Iraq. Had Washington unexpectedly won permission to forever defend Iraq, keeping U.S. forces on station would not have turned Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki into a paragon of democratic virtue, practicing inclusive politics and decentralizing authority. Any attempt to impose U.S. wishes would have failed as the Maliki government put its own interests first. Absent a willingness to withdraw America's troops--which would defeat Washington's purpose--the U.S. would have had little leverage. Even then Prime Minister Maliki likely would have bid them a fond farewell rather than yield power.

Using American forces to fight the Maliki regime's battles would have been even worse. Saddam Hussein, the justification for intervening in that nation, is long dead. If Baghdad cannot defend itself more than a decade after the U.S. invasion, that is Baghdad's, not Washington's, responsibility.

Moreover, intervening in Iraq's putative civil war today would be a cure worse than the disease. Air strikes no less than ground forces would simultaneously entangle the U.S. and increase its stakes in another likely lengthy conflict. Washington might prevent one or another group from taking power in Baghdad or elsewhere, but already has demonstrated its inability to determine Iraq's future direction. Moreover, fighting and killing more foreigners in another people's conflict would make more enemies of America, threatening more terrorist blowback.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-b...b_5524356.html
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:44 AM   #647
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You know, when you read that article and review our foreign policy history since WWII it becomes really clear, we have to MASSIVELY shrink, or eliminate, the CIA and the NSA. They've done us much more harm than good.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:50 AM   #648
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Nice finish.

The U.S. government's expectations should be realistic and ambitions should be bounded. American officials should abandon their persistent fantasy of reordering the world. Washington's consistently botched policies in the Middle East demonstrate the difficulty, indeed, impossibility of social engineering abroad. It is not just that Washington fails to achieve its objectives. More often U.S. intervention is counterproductive.

What if the Obama administration jumps back into Iraq militarily? What if the U.S. gets more deeply involved in Syria? What if Washington attempts to oust another government, remake another society, or transform another country? Experience suggests the results will not be pretty.

President Obama's foreign policy may be feckless. But that's not its principal failing. The administration remains a captive of its predecessors' interventionist follies. As long as Washington, irrespective of party control, attempts to dominate and micromanage the world, Washington will end up harming American interests.
(ibid.)
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:50 AM   #649
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Nice finish.

The U.S. government's expectations should be realistic and ambitions should be bounded. American officials should abandon their persistent fantasy of reordering the world. Washington's consistently botched policies in the Middle East demonstrate the difficulty, indeed, impossibility of social engineering abroad. It is not just that Washington fails to achieve its objectives. More often U.S. intervention is counterproductive.

What if the Obama administration jumps back into Iraq militarily? What if the U.S. gets more deeply involved in Syria? What if Washington attempts to oust another government, remake another society, or transform another country? Experience suggests the results will not be pretty.

President Obama's foreign policy may be feckless. But that's not its principal failing. The administration remains a captive of its predecessors' interventionist follies. As long as Washington, irrespective of party control, attempts to dominate and micromanage the world, Washington will end up harming American interests.
(ibid.)
Bingo!
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:03 AM   #650
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Bingo!
Bingo, except the whole Obama being 'captive' to other people's mistakes.

Libya should have completely exploded that myth.
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