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Old 06-23-2014, 07:53 AM   #451
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My buddy lives in Singapore and loves it there but I haven't asked about healthcare. He works for a big aerospace firm out there. He visits in a couple weeks for his dads bday and I will ask him about it. One thing he does love about it is how they are strict with things like pollution. You get caught throwing paper out your car window it can be like 1000 fine and up.
Probably anybody that protests(if allowed) are expected to pick up their trash too, but liberals in our country think that's someone else's job when they trash the environment in their little demonstrations.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:08 AM   #452
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Those are numbers of how to destroy a nation in 8 years.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:33 PM   #453
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Standing up for der gaffen-fuehrer and his adoration of all things Putin.

Of course.
. Says the guy taking away great healthcare in America. Keep trying.
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Old 07-05-2014, 09:06 AM   #454
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http://dailysignal.com/2014/07/05/ne..._medium=social

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A woman with a brain tumor who sued Nevada’s Obamacare exchange contractor for delayed coverage died earlier this week.

Linda Rolain was among 150 Nevadans suing the contractor Xerox for lack of coverage. She is the first to die of complications from an illness, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

“We are worried that this is the first of many Nevadans who have life-threatening issues that may end up in such tragic circumstances,” Rolain’s lawyers said in a statement.

Rolain was diagnosed with the tumor in early 2014 and was unable to receive treatment for months because of enrollment problems with the state’s Obamacare exchange, Nevada Health Link, Rolain’s husband Robert said in a June press conference.

Robert Rolain said his wife’s tumor went from treatable to fatal as they awaited coverage. Following multiple enrollment issues, the couple bought insurance through Xerox. The plan was supposed to begin in March, but Xerox miscommunicated its start date so the couple didn’t know they had coverage until May, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

Las Vegas insurance broker Pat Casale, who helped Rolain with the enrollment issues, told the Review-Journal that he knows multiple people who are “in serious need of care” but aren’t receiving it despite the fact that they’ve paid premiums.

Casale blames the delayed coverage for Rolain’s death.

“This poor lady was told in January that she needed immediate attention,” Casale said. “Her doctor said if she had begun treatment in March, he might been able to give her quality of care, and she might have lived longer. She had no chance because of the delay.”
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:03 PM   #455
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Just wait until the employer mandate kicks in. No wonder democrats are running from this and Obama. Even some of them can see reality, well sometimes.
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:14 PM   #456
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My buddy lives in Singapore and loves it there but I haven't asked about healthcare. He works for a big aerospace firm out there. He visits in a couple weeks for his dads bday and I will ask him about it. One thing he does love about it is how they are strict with things like pollution. You get caught throwing paper out your car window it can be like 1000 fine and up.
Sounds good. Ask him about the mandatory HSA, the cheap high-quality private practices, and the heavily regulated public hospital system. Sounds like they got it right. Singapore only spends 4.5% GDP on healthcare. The US spends 18% GDP on healthcare.
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:27 PM   #457
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Sounds good. Ask him about the mandatory HSA, the cheap high-quality private practices, and the heavily regulated public hospital system. Sounds like they got it right. Singapore only spends 4.5% GDP on healthcare. The US spends 18% GDP on healthcare.
Singapore also has price controls on what private providers can charge, and one of the metrics for what one pays into the public system is how much property one has.

Far too socialist for the right-wingers.
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:47 PM   #458
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Singapore healthcare doesn't include mental healthcare. Good job mentioning them!
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:52 PM   #459
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Have to have price controls if we want to emulate Singapore.


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William Haseltine, chairman and president of ACCESS Health International and author of Affordable Excellence: The Singapore Health Care System,
attributes Singapore’s ability to control health care costs to balancing a highly regulated market and managing a successful social wellness program.

While the United States and Singapore differ in size and demographics, Hasseltine suggested that several elements of cost management in Singapore could also work in the United States. Singapore is currently in the
process of transitioning from a fee-for-service (FFS) to a payment system based on DRGs; Haseltine noted that the United States is moving in the right
direction toward a bundled payment system, as outlined in the Affordable Care Act (ACA).

Both countries struggle with controlling costs for elderly care and chronic disease. In Singapore, patients have to pay for 20 percent of a procedure or treatment costs, but the country has a very low bankruptcy rate due to
health care costs. Haseltine attributes the low rate to several programs that wholly protect the underserved, run by Singapore’s Ministry of Health. Medifund exists to protect the indigent and ElderShield is a resource that
enables the elderly to receive quality care at a much lower cost.
Haseltine cited several lessons from Singapore that the United States could use in its implementation of the ACA.
  • Regulating the co-payment system: Individuals pay as much as they can afford, but there are also resources allocated to making it possible for those who cannot pay to receive high-quality care.
  • Greater transparency: In Singapore, patients have access to online data, listing prices of different hospitals, care centers, and procedures—also true in the United States. However, due to the chargemaster system in the United States, true health care cost transparency is difficult to obtain, because listed prices are often much higher than the actual cost of a procedure. There have been many calls to further regulate the chargemaster system in order to obtain a greater fluidity between health care prices and actual costs in the US.
  • Regulated competition: Singapore has a highly regulated high-deductible market, but also resources to ensure the underserved have access to care.
  • Work towards a greater transitional system: How can we make it easier to transfer from hospital-based care to home-based care in a way that gives patients and their families resources to better manage medications and overall health?


Free pdf of Hasletine's book. http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Pre...ellencePDF.pdf
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:56 PM   #460
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Singapore healthcare doesn't include mental healthcare. Good job mentioning them!
Hobo, rest assured, Singapore does have Mental Health care.

http://www.samhealth.org.sg/
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:56 PM   #461
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I think they should pay people that don't get sick
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:11 PM   #462
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Hasletine's finer points:

1. British system (Socialized medicine) is brutal. Socialized medicine degrades quality of care and restricts service. This is the VA. A fully public system does not work.
2. Even Singapore's healthcare which is public sector is regulated Capitalism.
3. Singapore has a primary care private sector which is free to compete and has completely transparent published price lists.
4. Public sector. Each hospital group operates as a private corporation. They can save money and invest it, using it to buy equipment, or pay doctor's more.



What the US can do:
1. Copayment - Copay as much as you can afford (20%). Nothing for free. High deductibles, copay, and means tested. Make it possible for people who can't pay (Medifund protects the indigent).
2. Hospital pricing is byzantine - Not fair. Don't know what you're being charged. Need price transparency and outcome transparency.
3. Singapore is transiting from tertiary hospital system, to one that is in home and community based.
4. Doctor's on salaries (not incentivized, piece-work).
5. Room for an entirely private system. If people want to opt out, they should be free to do so.
6. Starting to let citizens go to outside countries to get care (Mexico).
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:20 PM   #463
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Singapore also has price controls on what private providers can charge
This is completely false. Singapore's private primary care market (which makes up 80% of ALL healthcare transactions) is free-market and highly competitive.

How do they accomplish this?

1. People self pay with HSA's
2. Transparent fully-published price lists


This is the free-market at work. Even Singapore's public hospitals are operated with regulated Capitalism, where they compete against other hospital's for lower costs and higher quality care.
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:33 PM   #464
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Hobo, rest assured, Singapore does have Mental Health care.

http://www.samhealth.org.sg/
Side step much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore

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Mental health[edit]
There is one psychiatric hospital in Singapore, the Institute of Mental Health, previously known as Woodbridge Hospital after its old location near a wooden bridge in Yio Chu Kang. It is now located in Hougang.
They have ONE mental care hospital. Yeah great way to treat 5 million people.
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:42 PM   #465
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Side step much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore



They have ONE mental care hospital. Yeah great way to treat 5 million people.
, one such hospital in the whole country. But for liberals, the specifics don't matter. Oh, they have one hospital, it's covered. No need to know if that's enough to really care for people. Their attitude is the same with the VA. Oh, the soldiers are taken care of, just throw more millions at it and it magically sorts itself out.
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:44 PM   #466
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Singapore represents the death of single-payer.


In many ways, Singapore's healthcare system is much more free-market based than the US system. They limit taxpayer liability by regulating costs in their public hospitals, while allowing for a completely free-market, self-pay approach for the vast majority of health care transactions. It's the best of all worlds.

Even the elderly care system is moving more to in-home, community based care in order to limit taxpayer liability.
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:53 PM   #467
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Don't get this twisted. Singapore is the opposite of Obamacare. And the opposite of single-payer. Singapore is a 4-payer system just like the US. Liberals and Conservativse alike can embrace all aspects of this system. It is a unifier of people. It is regulated capitalism.

1. A healthy primary care free-market system. Self pay with HSA's.
2. No insurance mandate.
3. Regulation in the public system to limit taxpayer liability.
4. Highly competitive, with incentives to lower costs and improve quality of care
5. Safety net for those who can't pay.


I am an ultra-conservative Libertarian. I have been promoting Singapore as a healthcare solution for a couple years. I am completely against a fully public single-payer system. I am against Obamacare.

Singapore's system, is just like the US system (pre-Obamacare), with a few small tweaks that cut costs drastically with a free-market based system, and by regulating taxpayer liability.

Don't turn this into us vs. them argument. This system takes control over your money OUT of the government's hands and into your pocket. Arguing over this is pointless. Don't let single-payer advocates scare you away from this. This system is the opposite of single payer.
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:55 PM   #468
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Someone please show me where "single payer" works.

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Old 07-05-2014, 05:01 PM   #469
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Singapore is NOT single payer. It's the opposite.

Don't let DenverBrit scare you. He actually agrees with me on this. He's an Obama voter, but this is the opposite of Obamacare. DenverBrit is a liberal who thinks this is a good idea. That's all. Singapore is a conservative, free-market based approach, which incentivizes lowering costs while improving care, limiting tax-payer liability, and providing a safety net.


The Singapore system is the complete opposite of the VA and Britain's healthcare system. This is the complete opposite of Socialized medicine.

The only thing socialized about it is, that the government regulates the costs for hospital procedures to limit taxpayer liability. Everything is fully transparent. Fully published pricing lists. You have the ability to OPT OUT completely into the private free-market. Everything in primary care is self pay. Insurance is not mandatory.

Last edited by pricejj; 07-05-2014 at 05:04 PM..
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:06 PM   #470
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Someone please show me where "single payer" works.

Single-payer doesn't work. Single-payer is Medicare. Socialized Medecine doesn't work. Socialized medicine is the VA.

All of that is well known. Singapore is a 4-payer system (just like the US), and is nothing like the VA or Medicare.
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:09 PM   #471
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Liberals want single pay, so they would never support the Singapore model. They stupidly think single pay means great and equal care for everybody. They see the VA system, which is exactly that, but pretend it isn't happening because they'd have to admit that isn't so great.
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:19 PM   #472
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Singapore is NOT single payer. It's the opposite.

Don't let DenverBrit scare you. He actually agrees with me on this. He's an Obama voter, but this is the opposite of Obamacare. DenverBrit is a liberal who thinks this is a good idea. That's all. Singapore is a conservative, free-market based approach, which incentivizes lowering costs while improving care, limiting tax-payer liability, and providing a safety net.


The Singapore system is the complete opposite of the VA and Britain's healthcare system. This is the complete opposite of Socialized medicine.

The only thing socialized about it is, that the government regulates the costs for hospital procedures to limit taxpayer liability. Everything is fully transparent. Fully published pricing lists. You have the ability to OPT OUT completely into the private free-market. Everything in primary care is self pay. Insurance is not mandatory.
Wrong again.

As for hospitals, see below. You should read Haseltine more closely.

Quote:
The government went on to do the following things, per Haseltine. They limited the number of physicians. They controlled the number of specialists. They limited the numbers and kinds of expensive technology that could be purchased. The government bought and ran all public hospitals, which provide 80% of care in Singapore.
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:21 PM   #473
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, one such hospital in the whole country. But for liberals, the specifics don't matter. Oh, they have one hospital, it's covered. No need to know if that's enough to really care for people. Their attitude is the same with the VA. Oh, the soldiers are taken care of, just throw more millions at it and it magically sorts itself out.
Psst, Singapore is a City State.

Anyway, how many mental health hospitals do you need? One should be enough, even for your needs.
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:21 PM   #474
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Single-payer doesn't work. Single-payer is Medicare. Socialized Medecine doesn't work. Socialized medicine is the VA.

All of that is well known. Singapore is a 4-payer system (just like the US), and is nothing like the VA or Medicare.
. I know they're about to break the interwebs looking for that answer.
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:23 PM   #475
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Psst, Singapore is a City State and considered relatively sane.

Anyway, how many mental health hospitals do you need? One should be enough, even for your needs.
, says the Obama apologist. "All is wonderful, huffington said so." I'm sure the VA has enough too, just need to throw around some more money that go for bonuses for pretend work while you keep your fingers in your ears.
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