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Old 06-13-2014, 08:28 AM   #76
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Well, at least you can say he found and killed OBL, something Bush always seemed a little too drunk to accomplish. But hey! Mission accomplished!
Awesome how Bush laid the groundwork for every failure, but Obama singlehandedly accomplished every success (while apparently not knowing anything that's going on pretty much anywhere else in his administration)

You're such a great team player.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:31 AM   #77
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Oh my, the responses on here blaming Obama are further proof this country is hopeless. These idiots supported a war based on lies and then act surprised when the things those opposed to the war said would happen finally come to fruition.

You people should really have your citizenship revoked simply because of the level of your stupidity.

And if you paid attention at all to your heroes from PNAC, you would know that their goal is to destabilize the region. This is exactly what they want. They don't give a damn about the Iraqis.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:28 PM   #78
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Awesome how Bush laid the groundwork for every failure, but Obama singlehandedly accomplished every success (while apparently not knowing anything that's going on pretty much anywhere else in his administration)

You're such a great team player.
Bush had zero to do with the operation to get OBL. In fact, while he was still president he stated, "I truly am not that concerned about him. I am deeply concerned about Iraq. I really just don’t spend that much time on him, to be honest with you." Give me a break.
http://thinkprogress.org/security/20...tch-bin-laden/
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:30 PM   #79
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Well according to this

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-terror-jihadi

All hell is breaking loose at the hands of 10,000 men. So yeah, 20k equipped Americans with air support would crush anything resembling what we're seeing right now. In reality, we would've been conducting air strikes last November, as the Iraqis requested, and things would've never gotten anywhere near this far.

And read the article I posted earlier. It suggests Bush wanted to draw up a different type of agreement, with a more permanent presence, but he apparently decided to capitulate once Obama was elected.
The Iraqis we trained dropped their weapons and ran. The Iraqis kicked us out and now they want our air power. At some point, you say, "Enough is enough." Should we turn Iraq into a client-state for the next couple of hundred years? Because that's what it would take. Just like Ukraine, if they won't fight for their own country, why the hell should Americans fight for it?
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:09 PM   #80
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The Iraqis we trained dropped their weapons and ran. The Iraqis kicked us out and now they want our air power. At some point, you say, "Enough is enough." Should we turn Iraq into a client-state for the next couple of hundred years? Because that's what it would take. Just like Ukraine, if they won't fight for their own country, why the hell should Americans fight for it?
I'm not saying Iraq's government doesn't share a ton of blame. But it was basically 5 years of chaos, violence, and uncertainty between the start of the war and America electing a President who said we were getting the hell out of Dodge, and soon.

Once you're publicly committed to leaving, you have no more deterrent effect, and little usefulness to a government probably looking to hedge any bets in made on America more than anything.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:31 PM   #81
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Operations in the real world aren't wrapped up in 50 minutes like they are on TV. It takes time to establish creditable INTEL, sometimes years. And the countries of Eastern, Central, and Western Africa need Western assistance to help defeat the thugs.
Oh, so now you're pro-war in Africa, just not the Middle East right? Good luck with that. None of them. I repeat, no Africans want the US there.

The only foreign policy worse than funding warlords all over the Middle East is funding war lords in Africa. Haven't you learned anything?
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:52 PM   #82
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Oh, so now you're pro-war in Africa, just not the Middle East right? Good luck with that. None of them. I repeat, no Africans want the US there.

The only foreign policy worse than funding warlords all over the Middle East is funding war lords in Africa. Haven't you learned anything?
The United States has been actively engaged in combat and active INTEL operations over 12 years in the Africa. And we have made number of strong allies in the region. Just because the American public does pay attention does mean thing aren't going on.
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:43 PM   #83
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The United States has been actively engaged in combat and active INTEL operations over 12 years in the Africa. And we have made number of strong allies in the region. Just because the American public does pay attention does mean thing aren't going on.
Don't worry, I've been paying attention. Here's what I know of the last 5 years:
1. This administration sponsored Ethiopia to invade Somalia to de-stabilize the existing government result in 100's of thousands of displaced civilians, not sure how many dead or wounded.
2. Susan Rice declared Eritrea a 'terrorist' state and instilled sanctions
3. This administration sponsored the Muslim Brotherhood uprising in Egypt killing or wounding thousands of people and over-throwing the existing government. The Egpytian military is now back in power.
4. This administration sent in air support into South Sudan involving themselves in a civil war between rival tribes
5. This administration sent in ground troops to Uganda to find Joseph Kony only because of a celebrity twitter campaign. Kony was never found.
6. This administraton has now deployed troops to Chad in response to another celebrity twitter campaign.
7. This administration smuggled guns through Libya to Syria, and sponsored forces to overthrow the Libyan government.

What 'strong' allies has this administration created in Africa? Better yet, what weak allies has this administration gained? What good have those policies resulted in? How many people were killed, wounded, or displaced?

Here's the answers: none, none, none, millions.

Not a good track record. The US needs to stay out of Africa. They already have enough problems without us sponsoring warlords with more weapons.
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Old 06-14-2014, 05:25 AM   #84
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Oh my, the responses on here blaming Obama are further proof this country is hopeless. These idiots supported a war based on lies and then act surprised when the things those opposed to the war said would happen finally come to fruition.

You people should really have your citizenship revoked simply because of the level of your stupidity.

And if you paid attention at all to your heroes from PNAC, you would know that their goal is to destabilize the region. This is exactly what they want. They don't give a damn about the Iraqis.

They can't help it. Many don't even have a chance. Look at the quality of public education these days. Look at the ugly and very calculative political hate radio brainwashing by day and the unfair, unbalanced and unchecked news casts at night. Then the weekend brings the pulpit tying up the 'message' all together into one neat little bow. Anyone thinking Islam is the only religion coming unhinged isn't paying attention.

Even those who pride themselves on being free thinking patriots are now being led by the nose by a bunch of Billionaires pimping for their purse. It's all so sick and twisted IMO.

We've turned into an uninformed, hateful, polarized society.

This M.E. region has been embroiled in sectarian strife for time eternal it seems. Nothing we do can or will solve this. The ME map that was drawn last Century by the West only makes things more contentious. Let them draw their own boundaries now. And yes it will get ugly. We just need to stay out of it as much as possible now. That's just my two cents worth.
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:08 AM   #85
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Intel apparently knew of this threat months ago, but let me guess, Obama just found out about it in a newspaper. Really on the ball there. I think he just read about astronauts on the moon too. Astronauts from our great "57 states." Obama, the history scholar that he is.

Last edited by barryr; 06-14-2014 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:45 AM   #86
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They can't help it. Many don't even have a chance. Look at the quality of public education these days. Look at the ugly and very calculative political hate radio brainwashing by day and the unfair, unbalanced and unchecked news casts at night. Then the weekend brings the pulpit tying up the 'message' all together into one neat little bow. Anyone thinking Islam is the only religion coming unhinged isn't paying attention.

Even those who pride themselves on being free thinking patriots are now being led by the nose by a bunch of Billionaires pimping for their purse. It's all so sick and twisted IMO.

We've turned into an uninformed, hateful, polarized society.

This M.E. region has been embroiled in sectarian strife for time eternal it seems. Nothing we do can or will solve this. The ME map that was drawn last Century by the West only makes things more contentious. Let them draw their own boundaries now. And yes it will get ugly. We just need to stay out of it as much as possible now. That's just my two cents worth.
Amen.

It is good to see there are some people like you left in the world. Everyone in this country needs to seriously Wake Up. Politics and media in this country are controlled and corrupt. It is not about right vs left anymore.
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Old 06-14-2014, 12:54 PM   #87
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They can't help it. Many don't even have a chance. Look at the quality of public education these days. Look at the ugly and very calculative political hate radio brainwashing by day and the unfair, unbalanced and unchecked news casts at night. Then the weekend brings the pulpit tying up the 'message' all together into one neat little bow. Anyone thinking Islam is the only religion coming unhinged isn't paying attention.

Even those who pride themselves on being free thinking patriots are now being led by the nose by a bunch of Billionaires pimping for their purse. It's all so sick and twisted IMO.

We've turned into an uninformed, hateful, polarized society.

This M.E. region has been embroiled in sectarian strife for time eternal it seems. Nothing we do can or will solve this. The ME map that was drawn last Century by the West only makes things more contentious. Let them draw their own boundaries now. And yes it will get ugly. We just need to stay out of it as much as possible now. That's just my two cents worth.
We spent the entire 20th century cleaning up the Europeans' global **** ups. Looks like everybody expects us to spend the 21st century doing the same.

Let me see, what was it that George Washington said? Oh yeah:

The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

Of course, Washington didn't have the military/industrial complex pulling his chain. As a side note, Halliburton made $39.5 billion in Iraq.
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:27 PM   #88
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Don't worry, I've been paying attention. Here's what I know of the last 5 years:
1. This administration sponsored Ethiopia to invade Somalia to de-stabilize the existing government result in 100's of thousands of displaced civilians, not sure how many dead or wounded.
2. Susan Rice declared Eritrea a 'terrorist' state and instilled sanctions
3. This administration sponsored the Muslim Brotherhood uprising in Egypt killing or wounding thousands of people and over-throwing the existing government. The Egpytian military is now back in power.
4. This administration sent in air support into South Sudan involving themselves in a civil war between rival tribes
5. This administration sent in ground troops to Uganda to find Joseph Kony only because of a celebrity twitter campaign. Kony was never found.
6. This administraton has now deployed troops to Chad in response to another celebrity twitter campaign.
7. This administration smuggled guns through Libya to Syria, and sponsored forces to overthrow the Libyan government.

What 'strong' allies has this administration created in Africa? Better yet, what weak allies has this administration gained? What good have those policies resulted in? How many people were killed, wounded, or displaced?

Here's the answers: none, none, none, millions.

Not a good track record. The US needs to stay out of Africa. They already have enough problems without us sponsoring warlords with more weapons.
Good post. I agree en toto.

I just read a good account of our meddling in Somalia -- where we supported warlords over the people. See DIRTY WARS by Jeremy Scahill.
MHG
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:31 PM   #89
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We spent the entire 20th century cleaning up the Europeans' global **** ups. Looks like everybody expects us to spend the 21st century doing the same.

Let me see, what was it that George Washington said? Oh yeah:

The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

Of course, Washington didn't have the military/industrial complex pulling his chain. As a side note, Halliburton made $39.5 billion in Iraq.
You must be nuts. We did not fix anything during the 20th century -- we ****ed up everything we touched.

In the 21st century it only got worse. GW Bush made the biggest blunder in US history by going into Iraq.

Obama has gone that even better with the provocations against Russia which in the near future will destroy the US dollar -- and maybe trigger WW III.

Time to bring the troops home, take back our country -- and put the war criminals in prison where they belong.

MHG
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:40 PM   #90
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Der gaffen-fuerher's understanding of geopolitics is right up there with his understanding of physics, chemistry, metallurgy, history, arithmetic, basically the entirety of human knowledge. Epsilon.
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Old 06-14-2014, 02:50 PM   #91
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Good post. I agree en toto.

I just read a good account of our meddling in Somalia -- where we supported warlords over the people. See DIRTY WARS by Jeremy Scahill.
MHG
Yeah, it's utter bullcrap. The US also supported the Ethiopian military to go in and oust the Somali's legitimate government. Why? Because they were muslim. 98% of Somalians are muslim and the US has been de-stabilizing their government since 1991. Finally they got something stable in the last 6 years, and Obama de-stabilized them again.

You wonder why Sunni's are going crazy everywhere? They are 1/7 of the world's population and the US keeps ousting any government they form, just to put dictator warlord puppets like Karzai and al-Maliki in place. Then you have places like Egypt where it's complete chaos now, with women being raped and dragged through Tahrir square. Notice how the press doesn't report on Egypt anymore. This is all an enormous human rights catastrophe and the chaos is spreading.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:24 PM   #92
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Yeah, it's utter bullcrap. The US also supported the Ethiopian military to go in and oust the Somali's legitimate government. Why? Because they were muslim. 98% of Somalians are muslim and the US has been de-stabilizing their government since 1991. Finally they got something stable in the last 6 years, and Obama de-stabilized them again.

You wonder why Sunni's are going crazy everywhere? They are 1/7 of the world's population and the US keeps ousting any government they form, just to put dictator warlord puppets like Karzai and al-Maliki in place. Then you have places like Egypt where it's complete chaos now, with women being raped and dragged through Tahrir square. Notice how the press doesn't report on Egypt anymore. This is all an enormous human rights catastrophe and the chaos is spreading.
Right. The US press reflects the delusional viewpoint of our leaders. The power elite is exercising a near complete lockdown on the media --

There now appears almost no way to break through. People ask me why I post my 9/11 research here - at the OM.

The reason is simple. Internet forums are the last bastion of free speech in the USA.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:42 PM   #93
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Right. The US press reflects the delusional viewpoint of our leaders. The power elite is exercising a near complete lockdown on the media --

There now appears almost no way to break through. People ask me why I post my 9/11 research here - at the OM.

The reason is simple. Internet forums are the last bastion of free speech in the USA.
Yeah really. That's depressing. All I keep hoping for is more Libertarian types to keep getting elected. Once the Republican establishment started calling us 'terrorists' it became clear.

The thing is, with social media, the people have so much power. We could literally change everything in the 2016 election if people wanted too. We could change it today. The problem is most people who know what's going are too old for social media. Most young people are too dumb and brainwashed. I keep up hope though. Social media makes it much easier to organize.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:53 PM   #94
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Yeah really. That's depressing. All I keep hoping for is more Libertarian types to keep getting elected. Once the Republican establishment started calling us 'terrorists' it became clear.

The thing is, with social media, the people have so much power. We could literally change everything in the 2016 election if people wanted too. We could change it today. The problem is most people who know what's going are too old for social media. Most young people are too dumb and brainwashed. I keep up hope though. Social media makes it much easier to organize.
When you decide to convert to libertarianism is there a ritual, like a baptism, or maybe holding little electric paddles to expel your thetans?
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:57 PM   #95
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People ask me why I post my 9/11 research here - at the OM.

The reason is simple. Internet forums are the last bastion of free speech in the USA.
No, it's because you're a narcissistic a-hole with a Messiah complex.
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:53 PM   #96
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When you decide to convert to libertarianism is there a ritual, like a baptism, or maybe holding little electric paddles to expel your thetans?
What's that you sick commie?
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