The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-13-2014, 09:24 AM   #176
Kaylore
4 time AFCW Champs
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
12 straight road division wins

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 47,294

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkie View Post
It's really a unipartisan system with two wings of parasites. The Federal Reserve is "bipartisan". Wall Street is "bipartisan". The bailouts were "bipartisan". Neither wing has absolute power, but together they have power over the people. Their strategy is to grow government under one wing and only piss off half the people. The other half will soon be pissed off too at the exact same thing when the new wing picks up with business as usual.
I actually agree. I think if we went to multi-party system there would be a much less "us" versus "them" mentality. There would also be more choice at the ballot box. And parties would have to form coalitions in the house and senate to work together.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 09:28 AM   #177
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,347

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
World opinion, most notably that of our allies, doesn't just radically disagree with your delusional narrative, it makes you look rather silly.


http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...-obama/371884/
lol, world opinion! Yes, BO works for the EU and other countries, this is his mindset and I agree that he is setting himself up to be the first "world president".

Fact is, he's the American president and our population elected him, not the world. Sometimes you have to be a tough leader and make hard decisions that other nations don't always agree with. Take Winston Churchill for example, I'm sure he was not a popular guy with Germany, Italy and Japan (and Russian too) but he was a leader who made tough/hard decisions.

BO is not a leader, he's a loser. Everything has been handed to him since he was in college. He's been coddled and worshipped by the media. He's an obomination. He sucks. He is setting the USA up for failure and he knows it. Of course the rest of the world, especially the socialist morons in Europe like the guy. He makes the French leadership look like Tarzans.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 09:30 AM   #178
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 24,365

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
I put Obama right up there with James Buchanan.
Ouch. He is bad, but Buchanan bad? Eek.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 09:31 AM   #179
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 24,365

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I actually agree. I think if we went to multi-party system there would be a much less "us" versus "them" mentality. There would also be more choice at the ballot box. And parties would have to form coalitions in the house and senate to work together.
Going to have to reform ballot access laws in America. The R's and D's got it down to a science. Why do you think there aren't more third parties who have bigger voices? Those guys are in cahoots to bring them down. In most states, if not all based on my research, third party candidates require more signatures to gain access to the ballot for state or national elections. Pretty sad.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 09:33 AM   #180
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,347

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
I think the "size" of government is immaterial. The most pressing issue is who is pulling the strings? Who does it answer to? Who does it serve? We all know the answer to that one: It ain't the people. The second issue is its competence. Take Iraq, for example. Obviously, now that the final outcome is pulling into view, we can pretty confidently say that invading Iraq was incredibly stupid, wasteful of lives and wealth, moronic, and especially idiotic given our experiences as a nation since WWII. And yet, there are a few corporations who made billions from the Iraq Wars. And they were job creators. So it seems the private sector did very well, while the public sector (ie. "us") got left holding the bag.

Look at this so-called "Great Recession." The rich are richer than they've ever been in history in this country, by far. How can this be? For the top 1%, this recession has been the greatest cash cow in history, and continues daily to pump more wealth into their offshore accounts while the majority of the American people slide further backwards.

That seems to be the SOP of the modern U.S. government; The private sector rapes and pillages under government sanction and the taxpayers get stuck with the bill. Kind of like the British Empire and the East India company.
More communist manifesto garbage. Point is that BO has done nothing for the most important class in America, the middle class. You want to give "power to the people!" then strengthen the middle class, they are the cog that make this nation great.

What has BO done to enable the middle class to be more prosperous? Nothing. Nada. Zero. He sucks, he stinks, he's a leach on society and you voted for him.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 09:47 AM   #181
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,750
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
lol, world opinion!
Yes, of course, what the rest of the world thinks doesn't matter! If you can't process the significance of the confidence in Obama vs. Bush being 56% higher in Great Britain, 70% higher in France, and 74% higher in Germany, then I don't know what to tell you.

As the piece I linked earlier pointed out:
Quote:
When Bush was president, Cheney and Rove were defiantly uninterested in what other nations thought about American foreign policy. Now they’re convinced that those other nations yearn for the pre-Obama days. Back then, they were merely ideologically blinkered. Now they are verifiably, empirically wrong.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...-obama/371884/
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 09:50 AM   #182
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,750
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
Point is that BO has done nothing for the most important class in America, the middle class.
I think you need to read Roh's post again, because you're clearly missing the point. This isn't about BO, you need to let go of that obsession.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 10:05 AM   #183
B-Large
Ring of Famer
 
B-Large's Avatar
 
Expunged... Accidently?

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,058

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
The whole thing was a bad idea to begin with. This is how I predicted this would end back in 2003 when we got into this. 11 years later, and here we are passing the buck of blame for an impossible mission.
So you're saying it was impossible for us to rebuild a country with a religion we don't understand, subsets of religious culture we don't understand, centuries I deepl ingrained culture we don't understand, in a region of the world tha doesn't like the Free and Prosperous USA?

No way.

Wen your horse is dead, get off. Let Iraqis fight it out, it's what was enivitable when Saddam was found and killed.

Here's at thought- save the money, build a wall and security detail at our own border.. Keeps us safe, put people to work.... Seems like a win to me.
B-Large is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 10:08 AM   #184
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 21,811

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
More communist manifesto garbage. Point is that BO has done nothing for the most important class in America, the middle class. You want to give "power to the people!" then strengthen the middle class, they are the cog that make this nation great.

What has BO done to enable the middle class to be more prosperous? Nothing. Nada. Zero. He sucks, he stinks, he's a leach on society and you voted for him.
It's funny that you say more "communist manifesto" garbage and then call for a stronger middle class, which is pretty much at that heart of any socialist agenda (and, by the way, i agree with you, i think most do).

What I don't understand is how Obama is getting the blame here. I'm not his biggest fan ( though i think the American government is ****ed no matter who is in office ), but any time there's any piece of legislation that might help strengthen a middle class, the entire right wing votes lockstep against it. Minimum wage hike? **** that! Jobs creation programs? Who needs those. Increased taxes on the top 1 percent! NEVER! The entire modern right wing has no interest in creating a middle class as much point fingers and say who's to blame.

The president is only one person. Our congress is so fractured that there's basically nothing he can do even if he wanted to. American is run by corporate influence and that's just the way it is. We can b**** all we want, we can talk about ideals all we want, but until congress gets its act together, nothing really is gonna change (though at least the unemployment is headed in the right direction, even if it moves at a snails pace).

I dunno, i just have zero hope for us to return to what we think America should be. Those days of the 60's, single income families with homes are just long dead.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 10:11 AM   #185
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 21,811

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

The Iraq war was a ****ing terrible idea, and it was obviously a terrible idea then. I remember speaking to someone sorta high in the military back in 2003 and he said this would, no doubt, be Vietnam. What a gigantic waste of money and American lives.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 10:13 AM   #186
Fedaykin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,122

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
The Iraq war was a ****ing terrible idea, and it was obviously a terrible idea then. I remember speaking to someone sorta high in the military back in 2003 and he said this would, no doubt, be Vietnam. What a gigantic waste of money and American lives.
Yep, we've tried nation building before -- may times -- almost always to the same result. Lots of suffering, death and wasted resources and a regression of circumstances for all.
Fedaykin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 10:49 AM   #187
Broncojef
Ring of Famer
 
Broncojef's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Great White North
Posts: 3,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
It's funny that you say more "communist manifesto" garbage and then call for a stronger middle class, which is pretty much at that heart of any socialist agenda (and, by the way, i agree with you, i think most do).

What I don't understand is how Obama is getting the blame here. I'm not his biggest fan ( though i think the American government is ****ed no matter who is in office ), but any time there's any piece of legislation that might help strengthen a middle class, the entire right wing votes lockstep against it. Minimum wage hike? **** that! Jobs creation programs? Who needs those. Increased taxes on the top 1 percent! NEVER! The entire modern right wing has no interest in creating a middle class as much point fingers and say who's to blame.

The president is only one person. Our congress is so fractured that there's basically nothing he can do even if he wanted to. American is run by corporate influence and that's just the way it is. We can b**** all we want, we can talk about ideals all we want, but until congress gets its act together, nothing really is gonna change (though at least the unemployment is headed in the right direction, even if it moves at a snails pace).

I dunno, i just have zero hope for us to return to what we think America should be. Those days of the 60's, single income families with homes are just long dead.
Obama never gets the blame for anything, he is the master of lies, not my fault and the spin of bad policies and scandals. The middle class is a sound bite and a leverage to enact any policy that would normally be laughed at.
I'm very glad Congress is fractured, the thought of more legislation from this administration is repulsive. As a business man it still makes me laugh anyone sees things better in any fashion. Unemployment is headed right only because they have redefined what constitutes unemployment numbers. I agree on your thoughts of where America should be. America's populace is uneducated and the media complicit. Nothing will change if we continue to elect such trash.
Broncojef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 10:57 AM   #188
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 56,054

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Ouch. He is bad, but Buchanan bad? Eek.
Sure. What did Buchanan do? He came into office and acted as if the slavery conflict (which was about to explode) didn't exist. He hoped it would go away. Obama came in after the biggest bankster/Wall Street run ripoff in American history and did nothing. In fact, he rewarded the pirates. Even after the FBI stated that they found evidence for massive fraud across the board, the Obama justice department didn't issue a single indictment. The derivatives market that took this country down is still in operation at this moment. You know the Dodd/Frank bill that was supposed to reinstall Glass/Steagle-type oversight? Obama stood by and did nothing while that bill was turned over to Citigroup for a rewrite. Hell, his financial WH advisers, Geitner and Summers, recommended it.

Face it, when you go from Gitmo, to drones, to NSA spying, to just about every issue you can think of, you can only come to one opinion: Obama is a bull****ter. He bull**** his way to the top. He's bull****ting now. And in a couple of years, when he's knocking a golf ball down the fairways of Augusta with Dubya Bush, he'll still be bull****ting.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:18 AM   #189
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 21,811

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncojef View Post
Obama never gets the blame for anything, he is the master of lies, not my fault and the spin of bad policies and scandals. The middle class is a sound bite and a leverage to enact any policy that would normally be laughed at.
I'm very glad Congress is fractured, the thought of more legislation from this administration is repulsive. As a business man it still makes me laugh anyone sees things better in any fashion. Unemployment is headed right only because they have redefined what constitutes unemployment numbers. I agree on your thoughts of where America should be. America's populace is uneducated and the media complicit. Nothing will change if we continue to elect such trash.
Nothings gonna change until aliens attack and we put all the dumbass differences aside. There's not even such a thing as a healthy compromise anymore. Once one side proposes a bill or idea, the other side is lockstep against it (and i do think the right is much more unreasonable than the left. I'm not talking about their ideals or conservative beliefs, im talking about how the party has been hijacked by the extreme side. Not sure this is even deniable.)

And Obama gets a **** ton of blame, including things that are completely out of his hand. I think being president of this country now is a losing proposition no matter what the situation. The two parties are just entirely too fractured to get anything done.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:20 AM   #190
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 21,811

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Sure. What did Buchanan do? He came into office and acted as if the slavery conflict (which was about to explode) didn't exist. He hoped it would go away. Obama came in after the biggest bankster/Wall Street run ripoff in American history and did nothing. In fact, he rewarded the pirates. Even after the FBI stated that they found evidence for massive fraud across the board, the Obama justice department didn't issue a single indictment. The derivatives market that took this country down is still in operation at this moment. You know the Dodd/Frank bill that was supposed to reinstall Glass/Steagle-type oversight? Obama stood by and did nothing while that bill was turned over to Citigroup for a rewrite. Hell, his financial WH advisers, Geitner and Summers, recommended it.

Face it, when you go from Gitmo, to drones, to NSA spying, to just about every issue you can think of, you can only come to one opinion: Obama is a bull****ter. He bull**** his way to the top. He's bull****ting now. And in a couple of years, when he's knocking a golf ball down the fairways of Augusta with Dubya Bush, he'll still be bull****ting.
I think youre probably gonna get this from any president. Too much money in politics. Wall St. calls the shots.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:22 AM   #191
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 56,054

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Looks like we're not going back into Iraq: http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/13/us/ira...html?hpt=hp_t1

Kerry says that Iraq is falling apart due to hopeless political gridlock. Hmmm
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:23 AM   #192
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 56,054

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
I think youre probably gonna get this from any president. Too much money in politics. Wall St. calls the shots.
Depends on the president. TR? Nope. I admit, though, we've had a long string of ****ty presidents.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:25 AM   #193
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 10,075
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TD4HOF View Post
Actually, unfortunately we do have sectarian violence here. Chicago is plagued with people outside the preferential margins dying in a daily basis. The stubborn machinations of the uber rich starve out masses of children like forgotten cornfields and strike down the hopes of families far and wide.
^

Another whack-job Communist. Yes, Chicago and Detroit, bastions of Social Progressivism.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:32 AM   #194
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 10,075
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
So Obama sucks for pulling out of Iraq, and for staying in Afghanistan. Flip flop it and you'd still be finding fault. At some point you're going to have to admit there was no win in either situation, no matter who was in charge. More troops, fewer troops, whatever. You were probably cheering, pumping your fists and waving your flag when we invaded Iraq. Those of us with a clue knew it was a dubious (at best) idea from the get go. If blaming Obama makes it easier to for you to cope with your fears and disappointments then by all means do what works for you. Just don't be so shocked when people call you out for your BS.
You continue to prove you're an idiot. I never voted for Bush, and stopped caring about his policies 6 years ago, when he was no longer president. What I'm FAR more concerned about is THIS PRESIDENT'S highly destructive foreign policy which has de-stabilized governments and resulted in utter chaos everywhere.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:36 AM   #195
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 21,811

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Depends on the president. TR? Nope. I admit, though, we've had a long string of ****ty presidents.
I just think those days of yore are long gone. You had guys like TR or Lyndon Johnson who used to threaten congress members with personal **** if he didn't fall in line.

This is gonna sound like "hey kids get off my lawn" type ****, but i think the downfall of our political system is a side effect of the internet, social media, and the 24 hour news cycle. two reasons: 1) politicans can get immediate feedback from their base, so there's more danger in compromise. 2) Considering there's several news organizations only reporting one type of news, and we're constantly being fed it, constantly defending our position on places like, well here, we just further cement our beliefs until we have zero interest in budging. Im sure I'm guilty of it, just like everyone else is.

I just find the whole thing disgusting. its a bunch of caveman grunting and chest beating. I cant remember the last political conversation I had that wasnt filled with vitriol.

I stand at the far left of most of you, but I do agree that our direction is way off course. It's not a left or right issue, its a systematic issue. We're a rich nation, but I don't see how we will ever continue to grow when the country is firmly split down the middle, and neither side has any interest in something that even resembles a compromise. (though, as stated, i think the hijacked conservative party is more to blame here. Again, im not blaming conservatism, but this bull**** like the tea party isnt helping matters when every single talking point they have is unreasonable.)
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:37 AM   #196
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 21,811

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
^

Another whack-job Communist. Yes, Chicago and Detroit, bastions of Social Progressivism.
Seriously, do we really have to have this argument again when you slander a bunch of well meaning people by hating something you don't understand? It was offensive the first time. Stop.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:39 AM   #197
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 21,811

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
You continue to prove you're an idiot. I never voted for Bush, and stopped caring about his policies 6 years ago, when he was no longer president. What I'm FAR more concerned about is THIS PRESIDENT'S highly destructive foreign policy which has de-stabilized governments and resulted in utter chaos everywhere.
Dude, the world has always been chaotic. Its not more chaotic than it was probably since the beginning of time. How you can blame Obama for the world's problems is just insane. (and this is independent of any American foreign policy issue.)

** though he shoulda pulled out of afghanistan a loooong time ago. Doubling down on that bull**** was flat wrong.
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:41 AM   #198
ZONA
Ring of Famer
 
ZONA's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 10,749

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I actually agree. I think if we went to multi-party system there would be a much less "us" versus "them" mentality. There would also be more choice at the ballot box. And parties would have to form coalitions in the house and senate to work together.
Won't happen. It's a fantastic thought and it IS definitely the right thing to do. But the Rebubs and Demo's would kill it. The only way it would stand a fighting chance is if we got money out of politics first.
ZONA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:45 AM   #199
ZONA
Ring of Famer
 
ZONA's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 10,749

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Dude, the world has always been chaotic. Its not more chaotic than it was probably since the beginning of time. How you can blame Obama for the world's problems is just insane. (and this is independent of any American foreign policy issue.)

** though he shoulda pulled out of afghanistan a loooong time ago. Doubling down on that bull**** was flat wrong.
Dude, you can't argue against him. He's just out to bash Democrat's. He says he's a fence walker but I've been reading through all of his posts and he's a die hard republican in sheeps clothing. All he does is bash anything Democrat and Obama. Never says 1 damn thing about something the right wing does wrong. Forget him.
ZONA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 11:49 AM   #200
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 10,075
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
Dude, the world has always been chaotic. Its not more chaotic than it was probably since the beginning of time. How you can blame Obama for the world's problems is just insane. (and this is independent of any American foreign policy issue.)

** though he shoulda pulled out of afghanistan a loooong time ago. Doubling down on that bull**** was flat wrong.
Do you think it's right to sponsor extremist radicals to overthrow legitimate governments?
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:56 AM.


Denver Broncos