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Old 04-30-2014, 08:36 AM   #51
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JJ Abrams? They better get somebody to help him with the ending.
Damon Lindelof has a lot to do with JJ Abrams ending problems (a lot of people pin Lost on Abrams... he actually had almost nothing to do with that show after co-writing and directing the pilot). This new installment is co-written by Lawrence Kasdan, who co-wrote the best Star Wars film, The Empire Strikes Back. That's a hopeful sign but I'm still keeping my expectations fairly minimal. The prequel movies really killed a lot of enthusiasm I used to have over Star Wars.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:36 AM   #52
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Weak willed is a bit much. Anakin was the most human of all Jedi.
His issue was that unlike most Jedi he was not exposed to the potential Jedi life early on.
He grew up as a slave and was greatly emotionally attached to his mother.
He was emotionally driven instead of purging them and detaching himself from them.

His turn to the dark side could have been avoided if the order had been more trusting of him and willing to see past his flaws.
Instead they remained rigid and allowed their enemies to expose their flaws and to exploit his mistrust of them.
He probably the worst Jedi of all time. Highly emotional and unfit to be a Jedi. Had they not trained him, the Sith would have found him.

"There is no emotion, only peace..."
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:37 AM   #53
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Damon Lindelof has a lot to do with JJ Abrams ending problems (a lot of people pin Lost on Abrams... he actually had almost nothing to do with that show after co-writing and directing the pilot). This new installment is co-written by Lawrence Kasdan, who co-wrote the best Star Wars film, The Empire Strikes Back. That's a hopeful sign but I'm still keeping my expectations fairly minimal. The prequel movies really killed a lot of enthusiasm I used to have over Star Wars.
Kasdan will do a good job.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:25 AM   #54
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Lucas = Good Writer, BAD Director.

Empire was awesome, Jedi was good enough, and all 3 original Indy movies he wrote were damn good. While Star Wars was great, and so was american graffiti....he must of got lucky. Just don't let that guy direct his own story.

Note: I have repressed his involvement with the raping of Indiana Jones.
Lucas didn't write Empire or much of Jedi - Kasdan did, and he's involved in writing the new ones. Which is why I'm hopeful.


Edit - Kasdan also wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark

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Old 04-30-2014, 09:36 AM   #55
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Lucas didn't write Empire or much of Jedi - Kasdan did, and he's involved in writing the new ones. Which is why I'm hopeful.


Edit - Kasdan also wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark
Well, you may be correct is his actual involvement but he is credited as a writer /the writer of each and everyone of them.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:42 AM   #56
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Well, you may be correct is his actual involvement but he is credited as a writer /the writer of each and everyone of them.
Lucas may even get a writer's credit in the new films too, because the original story and characters are his.
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:59 PM   #57
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Lucas = Good Writer, BAD Director.

Empire was awesome, Jedi was good enough, and all 3 original Indy movies he wrote were damn good. While Star Wars was great, and so was american graffiti....he must of got lucky. Just don't let that guy direct his own story.

Note: I have repressed his involvement with the raping of Indiana Jones.

Lucas is a horrible writer. Empire is widely known as the best of the Star Wars movies and it is the only one that Lucas had no hand in writing. A New Hope was based on his original idea so he got a writing credit for it while Lawrence Kasdan is the one who did the majority of the work. And Jedi was also a co-written endeavor between Kasdan and Lucas, and I would imagine the main contribution Lucas made was the stupid Ewoks.

It is no coincidence that the prequel trilogy is terrible. He wrote the entire trilogy by himself.

Raiders of the Lost Ark was also Lawrence Kasdan doing the majority of the writing from an idea of Lucas. Temple of Doom and Last Crusade were written by a guy named Jeffrey Boam from Lucas ideas. Kingdom of the Crystal skull-**** was written by a group of people, but it is widely known that Lucas was the main driving force behind the story. Was completely inflexible with the story.

So when Lucas is completely in charge of writing or story, the movie is ****. When he can have ideas, but let someone with talent do the actual work of putting it all together it can be great.
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:02 PM   #58
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JJ Abrams? They better get somebody to help him with the ending.
I just hope this doesn't get the typical Abrams treatment and have lens flares all over it.

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Old 04-30-2014, 04:07 PM   #59
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Abraham's is perfect for Star Wars, it will be a big hit the summer it is released then everyone will forget about it.

Name a tag line from any of his Star Trek abominations other than Lens Flares...

The beauty of Star Trek was it's use of language and story. The whole usage of "Tale of Two Cities" was just a footnote in the reboot. Kirk was too young to feel old, he had no life experience. The images and blockbuster effects were better in the 2nd movie but people forget that kind of stuff as soon as the next special effects blockbuster is released.

JJ can make 3 entertaining Star Wars movies and keep that merch machine making Lucas money, will they be remembered 40 years later like the 1st 2 movies are? I doubt it, just based on his track record.
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:20 PM   #60
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He probably the worst Jedi of all time. Highly emotional and unfit to be a Jedi. Had they not trained him, the Sith would have found him.

"There is no emotion, only peace..."
Not everyone functions like that. His issues were trust and properly handling his emotions.
The Jedi are essentially monks who purge all things from their mind.
That is hard to do when you already have the personality that Anakin had.
You do not keep him at arms length and allow others to taint his mind.
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:23 PM   #61
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I'd be excited if JJ Abrams didn't totally suck as a director.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:50 PM   #62
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And the dumbest part of all was keeping the character because you know he annoys people.
Jar Jar added nothing to the story. He wasn't a chewie or even a ewok.
He was just there and annoying.
That's not true. Palpatine manipulated Jar-Jar to vote to give him unlimited powers. That set up the whole chain of events that is Star Wars...
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:31 PM   #63
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That's not true. Palpatine manipulated Jar-Jar to vote to give him unlimited powers. That set up the whole chain of events that is Star Wars...
yes he did. Crucial when you think about it, or a reason to dislike him more.
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:34 PM   #64
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The reason the original movies were good was because they were collectively driven by a compelling main character who had a clear, believable conflict (Luke loses everything, discovers his true destiny, embarks on a quest to realize it). All the other great things about those movies are driven by that theme. The prequels sucked for many reasons, but fundamentally it was because they lacked a driving dramatic force. The only way to make Anakin/Darth as compelling in his fall from grace would have been to make the series much darker and more psychological (see Walter White). Trying to make a family movie about a man's spiral into personal hell is an ill-advised concept. The best moments of the Revenge of the Sith explored that theme, but it was too little too late, and because it wasn't properly set up in the first place it didn't ring true. Unlike Luke, it wasn't clear why Anakin fundamentally felt driven to be a Jedi, or why his mother's fate was so devastating, given that he willingly chose to pursue his career of becoming a Jedi over staying with her. Back on Tatooine, young Anakin literally pleaded with his Mom to let him go! There was no connection made to the events that eventually tipped him over the edge. It would have made more sense to have tragedy strike their family while it was still together, leaving him feeling powerless and desperate for some path back, like Luke. Or maybe Qui-Gon should have stolen Mom from Watto, tried to sneak her off planet, and she got killed in the process and Anakin feels responsible, or better yet feels like Qui-Gon was responsible. If Qui Gon had talked Anakin into going, or better yet tricked him or forced him, that would have nagged at Anakin and caused him to mistrust the Jedi and this could conceivably drive him insane. To do that, Qui-Gon's motives could have been explored - there was plenty of room to do this type of thing in the first prequel. Great tragic characters are driven by psychological traumas. For Luke, becoming a Jedi was the only choice left to him ("I want to come with you to Alderan. There's nothing for me now.") The prequels failed to explore Anakin's psyche, choosing instead to focus on politics and weird characters and subplots, none of which are capable of being interesting without linking them to the main characters' motives. They came off as irrelevant and annoying.

I love Star Wars, but I really don't care how true they stay to the existing fiction. Expectations amongst the nerds is so high that you're never going to please everyone. If they can make a movie as dramatic, absorbing and imaginative as the originals, I'll be thrilled.

Last edited by Mr. Elway; 05-01-2014 at 01:38 PM.. Reason: Spelling and grammar
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:38 PM   #65
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Will watch.
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Old 05-01-2014, 02:33 PM   #66
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The reason the original movies were good was because they were collectively driven by a compelling main character who had a clear, believable conflict (Luke loses everything, discovers his true destiny, embarks on a quest to realize it). All the other great things about those movies are driven by that theme. The prequels sucked for many reasons, but fundamentally it was because they lacked a driving dramatic force. The only way to make Anakin/Darth as compelling in his fall from grace would have been to make the series much darker and more psychological (see Walter White). Trying to make a family movie about a man's spiral into personal hell is an ill-advised concept. The best moments of the Revenge of the Sith explored that theme, but it was too little too late, and because it wasn't properly set up in the first place it didn't ring true. Unlike Luke, it wasn't clear why Anakin fundamentally felt driven to be a Jedi, or why his mother's fate was so devastating, given that he willingly chose to pursue his career of becoming a Jedi over staying with her. Back on Tatooine, young Anakin literally pleaded with his Mom to let him go! There was no connection made to the events that eventually tipped him over the edge. It would have made more sense to have tragedy strike their family while it was still together, leaving him feeling powerless and desperate for some path back, like Luke. Or maybe Qui-Gon should have stolen Mom from Watto, tried to sneak her off planet, and she got killed in the process and Anakin feels responsible, or better yet feels like Qui-Gon was responsible. If Qui Gon had talked Anakin into going, or better yet tricked him or forced him, that would have nagged at Anakin and caused him to mistrust the Jedi and this could conceivably drive him insane. To do that, Qui-Gon's motives could have been explored - there was plenty of room to do this type of thing in the first prequel. Great tragic characters are driven by psychological traumas. For Luke, becoming a Jedi was the only choice left to him ("I want to come with you to Alderan. There's nothing for me now.") The prequels failed to explore Anakin's psyche, choosing instead to focus on politics and weird characters and subplots, none of which are capable of being interesting without linking them to the main characters' motives. They came off as irrelevant and annoying.

I love Star Wars, but I really don't care how true they stay to the existing fiction. Expectations amongst the nerds is so high that you're never going to please everyone. If they can make a movie as dramatic, absorbing and imaginative as the originals, I'll be thrilled.
The problem with the prequel trilogy was the focus on Anakin as the main character in the first place. It should have been mostly about Obi-Wan with Anakin as a much more minor story until Revenge of the Sith. The redemption of Vader/Anakin in the original trilogy was a background storyline, with Luke as the main character. Too much speechifying too. The only thing that touched on the political in the originals was a mention that the Emperor has disbanded the senate - in the new ones, it was a bunch of talking about things that were or weren't going to happen instead of just showing stuff happening.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:18 PM   #67
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The problem with the prequel trilogy was the focus on Anakin as the main character in the first place. It should have been mostly about Obi-Wan with Anakin as a much more minor story until Revenge of the Sith. The redemption of Vader/Anakin in the original trilogy was a background storyline, with Luke as the main character. Too much speechifying too. The only thing that touched on the political in the originals was a mention that the Emperor has disbanded the senate - in the new ones, it was a bunch of talking about things that were or weren't going to happen instead of just showing stuff happening.
I can't disagree that Anakin was a failure as a character, but I still think it was the way it was written that failed, not the choice of him as the protagonist. A boy who becomes the world's greatest Jedi yet chooses the dark side is a compelling idea, but the audience wants to know WHY and the primary job of the story is to show why. Summarize or miss on his motives and focus on distractions like Jar Jar and robots, and you lose the plot.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:18 PM   #68
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The problem with the prequel trilogy was the focus on Anakin as the main character in the first place. It should have been mostly about Obi-Wan with Anakin as a much more minor story until Revenge of the Sith. The redemption of Vader/Anakin in the original trilogy was a background storyline, with Luke as the main character. Too much speechifying too. The only thing that touched on the political in the originals was a mention that the Emperor has disbanded the senate - in the new ones, it was a bunch of talking about things that were or weren't going to happen instead of just showing stuff happening.
It was a background storyline because it was building to a slow reveal. I feel sorry for kids, today. They never got the chance to experience what it was like to hear Vader (for the very first time) tell Luke (and the audience) who he is/was.

All along, people thought Star Wars was just about Luke training to defeat this mysterious Sith enemy. When Obi-Wan talked about he knew Luke's father, and how he was the best fighter pilot in the galaxy, that HAD to be the prequels story.

Was it rushed? Absolutely. I'm sure it was a challenge for Lucas to go back and fill in the gaps. He started with "Chapter IV" because he thought it was the strongest beginning. He had no idea it would turn out to be this worldwide phenomenon...
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:31 AM   #69
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The problem with the prequel trilogy was the focus on Anakin as the main character in the first place. It should have been mostly about Obi-Wan with Anakin as a much more minor story until Revenge of the Sith. The redemption of Vader/Anakin in the original trilogy was a background storyline, with Luke as the main character. Too much speechifying too. The only thing that touched on the political in the originals was a mention that the Emperor has disbanded the senate - in the new ones, it was a bunch of talking about things that were or weren't going to happen instead of just showing stuff happening.
Exactly. It should have been about Obi-wan. People so often dump on the Jar-jar character...but the worst part about the Phantom Menace was that kid.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:36 AM   #70
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Exactly. It should have been about Obi-wan. People so often dump on the Jar-jar character...but the worst part about the Phantom Menace was that kid.
Damn 90 percent of the people cast were terrible. Then the ones that were cast well, the writing was terrible. The scene where Natalie Portman finally confesses to Hayden Christensen that she actually loved him was laughable. I was there opening night and I think the audience was snickering or laughing during the entire movie.

This franchise can be a success again and removing George Lucas, the guy who bet against it being a success after the changes were made to his 3 page script, is a great first step.
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:52 AM   #71
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I just hope this doesn't get the typical Abrams treatment and have lens flares all over it.

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Old 05-02-2014, 10:55 AM   #72
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Damn 90 percent of the people cast were terrible. Then the ones that were cast well, the writing was terrible. The scene where Natalie Portman finally confesses to Hayden Christensen that she actually loved him was laughable. I was there opening night and I think the audience was snickering or laughing during the entire movie.

This franchise can be a success again and removing George Lucas, the guy who bet against it being a success after the changes were made to his 3 page script, is a great first step.
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:07 AM   #73
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Hopefully someone can describe the different types of sand there are again.

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Old 05-02-2014, 11:24 AM   #74
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Hopefully someone can will describe the different types of sand there are again.
"I hate sand, it's coarse and it gets everywhere, unlike here, where everything is soft, and smooth"

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Old 05-02-2014, 11:27 AM   #75
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"I hate sand, it's coarse and it gets everywhere, unlike here, where everything is soft, and smooth"

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