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Old 04-12-2014, 07:02 PM   #1451
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Yes, role players. Elway has done a masterful job to ensure that there are no holes on the team prior to draft.
And that's the best part, a deep draft, and no glaring holes!
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:04 PM   #1452
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Put me in the camp that would like Van Noy to be a bronco.
I really really like his game. And MUG mentioned him as potentially sliding inside. To have a player like that on the roster, I would be comfortable with him playing MLB. He has great instincts, can cover, can blitz, can play the run.
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:07 PM   #1453
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I really really like his game. And MUG mentioned him as potentially sliding inside. To have a player like that on the roster, I would be comfortable with him playing MLB. He has great instincts, can cover, can blitz, can play the run.
I agree with him capable of playing MLB in the NFL. His selection also adds insurance for Von (both ACL recovery and stupidity).
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:23 PM   #1454
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I agree with him capable of playing MLB in the NFL. His selection also adds insurance for Von (both ACL recovery and stupidity).
I want him on the team and mentioned sliding Von to DE just so he could play SOLB. But I think Van Noy could play MLB, and him blitzing the A Gap would be scary.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:28 PM   #1455
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I don't see how Van Noy would be able to play MLB in a 4-3. ILB in a true 3-4 I could maybe see. But Van Noy is similar to Shazier in that he is best when running around and wreaking havoc. I could buy Shazier as a MLB far better than I could buy Van Noy who is to me a SLB/DE.

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Neither of those guys offer anything that Nate Irving doesn't already have.
Irving isn't exactly capable of full on running the defense. Zumwalt and Bullough are really good at running a D and making adjustments.
Irving has not displayed the instincts of a MLB in the pros.
We need a true MLB, not a guy that is just there for 2 downs and then the coverage guys come in. Zumwalt or Bullough could remain on the field.
Just because Irving is here does not mean we shouldn't address the position and attempt to upgrade it. So far he has proven to be good depth but not a true starting MLB.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:47 PM   #1456
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I ... mentioned sliding Von to DE just so he could play SOLB.
Get over this ridiculous notion.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:38 AM   #1457
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You agree with me on the offensive line, but some of the other positions, by impact you mean from being role players right?

I don't see a DE starting over Ware on the weak side or Wolfe/Malik on the strong side.

A Rookie RB is not starting in a PFM offense.

A Rookie CB is not beating out Talib/Harris.

Agree with FS and MLB. But a rookie could be impactful in a back-up or situational type role.
You have Carter starting at Nickel though which actually is on the field more than the MLB.
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Old 04-13-2014, 03:02 AM   #1458
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You have Carter starting at Nickel though which actually is on the field more than the MLB.
Webster for the moment, but a rookie could contribute, absolutely. Unless one of the studs fell to 31, again we can trade back and still get a good CB.
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Old 04-13-2014, 03:04 AM   #1459
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Get over this ridiculous notion.
Was saying that because I wanted Van Noy as a Bronco and that was one fit, but I am over it.
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Old 04-13-2014, 03:11 AM   #1460
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Lestat, I think because Van Noy had success getting after the QB, the assumption is SLB/DE. But that's not necessarily his game. I agree that he is best when diagnosing and going after the play. But when you watch the tape, he's a player who really knows how to get after the play. Whether that's in coverage, stopping the run, blitzing. The kid does it all.

I don't get why he's labeled as a DE, to me one of his best attributes is dropping into coverage. He can easily do that for us, and imagine him blitzing up the middle when its there.

Originally I was unsure about him as a MLB, but the more film I watched, and more I thought about it, I could potentially see the fit.
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Old 04-13-2014, 01:26 PM   #1461
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I don't see how Van Noy would be able to play MLB in a 4-3. ILB in a true 3-4 I could maybe see. But Van Noy is similar to Shazier in that he is best when running around and wreaking havoc. I could buy Shazier as a MLB far better than I could buy Van Noy who is to me a SLB/DE.
I saw lots of plays with Van Noy holding up at the POA and making plays. Not to mention that in our defensive scheme the MLB is protected and allow to run around and wreak havoc.
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Old 04-13-2014, 01:27 PM   #1462
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With Harris coming back from an injury, Webster having an up/down year, and Carter being generally worthless, I fully expect a CB to be addressed early in the draft.
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Old 04-13-2014, 01:54 PM   #1463
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If his name isn't Mosley then no way would Lestat ever think he is capable of playing MLB.
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Old 04-13-2014, 05:09 PM   #1464
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Lestat, I think because Van Noy had success getting after the QB, the assumption is SLB/DE. But that's not necessarily his game. I agree that he is best when diagnosing and going after the play. But when you watch the tape, he's a player who really knows how to get after the play. Whether that's in coverage, stopping the run, blitzing. The kid does it all.

I don't get why he's labeled as a DE, to me one of his best attributes is dropping into coverage. He can easily do that for us, and imagine him blitzing up the middle when its there.

Originally I was unsure about him as a MLB, but the more film I watched, and more I thought about it, I could potentially see the fit.
I think Van Noy is a potential monster waiting to be unleashed. But I do not see him being good as a MLB. OLB, DE, even a 3-4 ILB I could see him being very good at.
I think he is a tweener but I do not used that as a negative. I suppose hybrid would be a better word to utilize for the discussion of his play and film.
I see him as similar to a James Harrison or Lamarr Woodley(before the contract).

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I saw lots of plays with Van Noy holding up at the POA and making plays. Not to mention that in our defensive scheme the MLB is protected and allow to run around and wreak havoc.
Our MLB doesn't call the plays nor makes the adjustments though.
Which is part of the issue with the D. He is a part time player and treated as such.
We need a highly talented guy who forces the coaches to keep him on the field, even if that means keeping 3 LB's in instead of utilizing so much of the nickel.
We need a field general and leader at the MLB position. Also, not a single one of our MLB's wreaked havoc except for sucking in the run game til Lenon came in and he was horrendous at just about everything else.
Having someone who can blitz the QB on a delay or drop into coverage and force the QB into a bad decision because he takes away the check down would be huge.
That gives you a legit chance to rush 4 and still get some really good pressure. Then you can bring Ward up and blitz some, use the MLB to blitz or drop back, have Von stay more at SAM and rush & etc.
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Old 04-13-2014, 05:12 PM   #1465
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And that's the best part, a deep draft, and no glaring holes!
I'd say we have depth-holes but right.

LG and MLB are sorta-holes but not massive, if we had to go into the year with Irving/Montgomery there, i think we'd be ok.
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Old 04-13-2014, 05:25 PM   #1466
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I'd say we have depth-holes but right.

LG and MLB are sorta-holes but not massive, if we had to go into the year with Irving/Montgomery there, i think we'd be ok.
If we land a top notch CB and a WR or DL then I could definitely live with those scenarios.
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Old 04-13-2014, 06:21 PM   #1467
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Our MLB doesn't call the plays nor makes the adjustments though.
Which is part of the issue with the D. He is a part time player and treated as such.
We need a highly talented guy who forces the coaches to keep him on the field, even if that means keeping 3 LB's in instead of utilizing so much of the nickel.
We need a field general and leader at the MLB position. Also, not a single one of our MLB's wreaked havoc except for sucking in the run game til Lenon came in and he was horrendous at just about everything else.
Having someone who can blitz the QB on a delay or drop into coverage and force the QB into a bad decision because he takes away the check down would be huge.
That gives you a legit chance to rush 4 and still get some really good pressure. Then you can bring Ward up and blitz some, use the MLB to blitz or drop back, have Von stay more at SAM and rush & etc.
First, the bolded contradict each other. We have a field general in Trevathan. it worked fine last year, and being our best cover LB he will never come off the field.

Second, Van Noy is excellent in rushing the QB, has above average coverage ability, and can handle the POA in the run.

Third, why can't Van Noy play MLB at a higher level than what we had last year? His ability to play a variety of positions and attack from a variety of areas are a DCs dream. I have yet to hear a compelling reason why he couldn't.
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:29 PM   #1468
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First, the bolded contradict each other. We have a field general in Trevathan. it worked fine last year, and being our best cover LB he will never come off the field.

Second, Van Noy is excellent in rushing the QB, has above average coverage ability, and can handle the POA in the run.

Third, why can't Van Noy play MLB at a higher level than what we had last year? His ability to play a variety of positions and attack from a variety of areas are a DCs dream. I have yet to hear a compelling reason why he couldn't.
No it does not. I said that first part to state the next, our MLB doesn't make calls or adjustments. That goes against almost every rule of traditional defense.
I want a traditional MLB who calls the D, makes adjustments, leads the defense.
I like Trev, but we have had a hole at MLB for far too long.
It needs to be fixed, not plugged, not duct taped over with a also ran and not ignored because we run the nickle a bunch.
You get the right guy and the defense changes for the better.

Van Noy has been a OLB and DE hybrid for pretty much his entire collegiate career. He profiles as such in the pros. I understand those who want to use his size and athletic ability in the middle of the defense. But nothing I see on tape or in his profile suggests to me that he would be a good MLB.

Would he be better than the MLB's we currently have? Probably, but that depends on how they would use him. This is not at all a shot at Trev. But if the MLB isn't going to be the leader of the D and make the calls then there is no point in drafting one before round 5 or so.
Putting him at MLB would to me mitigate his best traits which scream play making OLB/DE.
I think he is very flexible and you can move him around on D and create some mismatches with his rushing ability.
I do not however see where he would be a good MLB. But I will admit that when it comes to MLB I prefer a experienced play caller and history of playing the position. The only position that tends to translate well to MLB is S and that is only if a guy is heady and instinctual.
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:37 PM   #1469
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The only position that tends to translate well to MLB is S and that is only if a guy is heady and instinctual.
I'd be interested in seeing your support for this claim.
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:50 PM   #1470
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Lestat what do you see as our options for MLB?
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:48 PM   #1471
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Lestat what do you see as our options for MLB?
Preference or likely outcome?
Preference is drafting a MLB, signing another one to compete with the draftee and Irving.
In the vein of traditional play calling and possible leader of the defense I would say.
1st Round
CJ Mosley
2nd Round
Chris Borland
4th Round or later
Max Bullough
Jordan Zumwalt
Shayne Skov
Yamin Smallwood
Avery Williamson
Andrew Jackson

If we are simply talking about plugging a guy in there and letting him run around and make plays while Trev still calls the D and the role is more fashioned into a pseudo coverage role.
1st Round
Ryan Shazier
3rd Round or later
Jordan Tripp

I am not sure on Jones,Barrow or Brown. I do not particularly trust either to run the D but I am not sure they would fit fully with a roving or coverage role.

Smallwood and Jackson are pretty much locked into 2 down thumper roles as it stands with their potential limitations in coverage and lateral athletic issues. You could potentially say the same thing about Skov but I think he is not fully back to what he was before the knee injury.

Being completely honest, I doubt we take a MLB. If anything we will likely take a OLB later in the draft to potentially replace Irving in his walk year and provide more depth.

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I'd be interested in seeing your support for this claim.
Paris Lenon,Brian Urlacher and Thomas Davis are the only guys I can remember off the top of my head being moved from a collegiate S position to MLB and being fairly decent at it.
All were college safeties. Most of the LB's who move to MLB in the pros either played MLB in college at times or were moved from MLB to get another talented player on the field to have their best LB's on the field.

There is a long history of guys moving from MLB to a OLB position in the pros, long history of guys moving from OLB to DE or from DE to OLB. But the only ones that seem to play well at MLB in the pros are true MLB's or heady S's that move to MLB.
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:00 PM   #1472
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Brian Urlacher played the LOBO-back in a 3-3-5 scheme in college. He also weighed 258 at the combine.
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:32 PM   #1473
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Thomas Davis plays MLB?
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Old 04-14-2014, 05:39 AM   #1474
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Interesting discussion yesterday regarding the Broncos MLber need with both Joel Klatt and Alfred Williams calling Mosley a outside LBer and Shazier an MLBer therefore a better fit for the Broncos but both love each player
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:56 AM   #1475
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Interesting discussion yesterday regarding the Broncos MLber need with both Joel Klatt and Alfred Williams calling Mosley a outside LBer and Shazier an MLBer therefore a better fit for the Broncos but both love each player
Both will probably be selected before we pick unfortunately, so we may need another option.
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