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Old 12-30-2013, 04:51 PM   #126
houghtam
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Wait, are you removing the Greeks from European White society?
Where did I say European?
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:02 PM   #127
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Where did I say European?
Well in racial context, White and European are considered near synonymous.

But have it your way.

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Why do you hate your white heritage so much to betray one of our favorite figures to the non-whites?
Are Greek people not White?
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:10 PM   #128
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Well in racial context, White and European are considered near synonymous.

But have it your way.



Are Greek people not White?
Find me someone of Greek heritage that will look at this picture and say, "Grandpa? Is that you?"

Furthermore, like the braindead txtebow, it seems you've missed the point as well. Read post #102, particularly the last two paragraphs.

Then report back to the class with your findings.
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File Type: jpeg santa.jpeg (7.3 KB, 24 views)
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:54 PM   #129
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Not that it matters much, but St Nicholas as a Turk takes far more imagination than you're attributing to anyone else.

That'd be like saying Sitting Bull was white because most of the people who now live where he did are white.

He was Greek. Obviously not like the pasty white fictional transfiguration we have today. But certainly not Turk.
Do you have a link to his ethnic heritage?

Some of modern Turkey was part of the Greek empire, but a crossroads ('Asia Minor') of humanity....Goths, Persians, Kurds, Syrians etc. I'm curious.
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:22 PM   #130
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Do you have a link to his ethnic heritage?

Some of modern Turkey was part of the Greek empire, but a crossroads ('Asia Minor') of humanity....Goths, Persians, Kurds, Syrians etc. I'm curious.
Although I'm sure you know this, he's disingenuously referring to simple political boundaries, ie the 11th century Seljuk migration/invasion. But we all know that intermingling of ethnicities happens continuously and is more pronounced if you will in areas where vastly different ethnicities meet, like you mentioned. Same thing with Spain, and, much to txtebow's chagrin, in the US.

Of course, we all know anthropology not to be one of Beavis's strongpoints, so why he decided to weigh in on this discussion is beyond my comprehension.
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:56 PM   #131
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Although I'm sure you know this, he's disingenuously referring to simple political boundaries, ie the 11th century Seljuk migration/invasion. But we all know that intermingling of ethnicities happens continuously and is more pronounced if you will in areas where vastly different ethnicities meet, like you mentioned. Same thing with Spain, and, much to txtebow's chagrin, in the US.

Of course, we all know anthropology not to be one of Beavis's strongpoints, so why he decided to weigh in on this discussion is beyond my comprehension.
I was in Turkey (Istanbul) last year for a couple of weeks. Historically, it's an amazing place. I can't think of a more interesting capitol to explore.

The ethnic diversity is everywhere, I was curious as to how Bevis narrowed St Nick's to Greek. As you say, political boundaries alone are too simplistic.

Using that criteria, much of 19th century India must have been be white.
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:03 PM   #132
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I was in Turkey (Istanbul) last year for a couple of weeks. Historically, it's an amazing place. I can't think of a more interesting capitol to explore.

The ethnic diversity is everywhere, I was curious as to how Bevis narrowed St Nick's to Greek. As you say, political boundaries alone are too simplistic.

Using that criteria, much of 19th century India must have been be white.
I guess that makes a relative of mine born in France in 1944 a German, too. A lot of spätzl eaten in that household I'm sure
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:18 AM   #133
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I was in Turkey (Istanbul) last year for a couple of weeks. Historically, it's an amazing place. I can't think of a more interesting capitol to explore.

The ethnic diversity is everywhere, I was curious as to how Bevis narrowed St Nick's to Greek. As you say, political boundaries alone are too simplistic.

Using that criteria, much of 19th century India must have been be white.
Ankara is Turkey's capital?
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:20 AM   #134
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I was in Turkey (Istanbul) last year for a couple of weeks. Historically, it's an amazing place. I can't think of a more interesting capitol to explore.

The ethnic diversity is everywhere, I was curious as to how Bevis narrowed St Nick's to Greek. As you say, political boundaries alone are too simplistic.

Using that criteria, much of 19th century India must have been be white.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_N...ce_2009_121-16

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Nicholas was born a Greek[12][13][14] in Asia Minor during the third century in the city of Patara (Lycia et Pamphylia),[15][16] which was a port on the Mediterranean Sea,[16] and lived in Myra, Lycia[17] (part of modern-day Demre, Turkey), at a time when the region was Greek in its heritage,[16] culture, and outlook and politically part of the Roman diocese of Asia.
St Nick was Greek. That much is fairly inarguable. Whether there was different ethnicity in the general region at the time could be argued. But that ethnicity being Turk of all things is impossible.

They didn't arrive in that region until many centuries later in the middle ages.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:46 AM   #135
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Although I'm sure you know this, he's disingenuously referring to simple political boundaries, ie the 11th century Seljuk migration/invasion. But we all know that intermingling of ethnicities happens continuously and is more pronounced if you will in areas where vastly different ethnicities meet, like you mentioned. Same thing with Spain, and, much to txtebow's chagrin, in the US.

Of course, we all know anthropology not to be one of Beavis's strongpoints, so why he decided to weigh in on this discussion is beyond my comprehension.
Coming from the guy who argued that the Orthodox St Nicholas was a Turk, this is beyond rich.

Best go back to your strong suit of arguing the Constitutionality of Sex Defined Bathrooms.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:00 AM   #136
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Ankara is Turkey's capital?
It is now, I should have said 'historic capital'.....and spelled it correctly.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:01 AM   #137
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Coming from the guy who argued that the Orthodox St Nicholas was a Turk, this is beyond rich.

Best go back to your strong suit of arguing the Constitutionality of Sex Defined Bathrooms.
Hardy har har. Yeah, you're right. I should have argued he was Persian.

You pointed out an inaccuracy in point 5a of a long argument. Congrats?

Now to answer the rest of the argument. Was St. Nicholas white? If Santa Claus is a bastardized (or mongrelized) version of several figures who may or may not have existed, why is depicting him as black or as a penguin (or as anything different from what he has been for only about the last 100 years) so, so wrong?

Of course again, actually answering questions is not your MO.

Also, your understanding of the point I was making in the bathroom thread was way, way off, as usual. First off, there is no "right to privacy", but if anyone challenges laws like these, the equal treatment laws we have in place (supported by the Constitution) will be the first thing referenced.

Why do you fail so much, Beavis?
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:14 AM   #138
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Hardy har har. Yeah, you're right. I should have argued he was Persian.

You pointed out an inaccuracy in point 5a of a long argument. Congrats?

Now to answer the rest of the argument. Was St. Nicholas white? If Santa Claus is a bastardized (or mongrelized) version of several figures who may or may not have existed, why is depicting him as black or as a penguin (or as anything different from what he has been for only about the last 100 years) so, so wrong?

Of course again, actually answering questions is not your MO.

Also, your understanding of the point I was making in the bathroom thread was way, way off, as usual. First off, there is no "right to privacy", but if anyone challenges laws like these, the equal treatment laws we have in place (supported by the Constitution) will be the first thing referenced.

Why do you fail so much, Beavis?
Notice when I entered the conversation...

Just because I saw no point in it up until I saw someone post some truly epic fail in naming St Nicholas a Turk does nothing to diminish the epic fail.

Believe Santa Claus is a wolverine if you want. Does it matter? Not to me. But you were the one talking about a literal historic figure... the Greek Orthodox St. Nicholas. And you said he was Turk.

Even better, you said it in the context of mocking people who supposedly didn't understand his history as well as you.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:34 AM   #139
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Notice when I entered the conversation...

Just because I saw no point in it up until I saw someone post some truly epic fail in naming St Nicholas a Turk does nothing to diminish the epic fail.

Believe Santa Claus is a wolverine if you want. Does it matter? Not to me. But you were the one talking about a literal historic figure... the Greek Orthodox St. Nicholas. And you said he was Turk.

Even better, you said it in the context of mocking people who supposedly didn't understand his history as well as you.
So (of course) the point still stands.

Thanks for reinforcing it.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:44 AM   #140
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Txtebow's Xmas was ruined because he found out Santa was a swarthy Turk.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:50 AM   #141
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_N...ce_2009_121-16



St Nick was Greek. That much is fairly inarguable. Whether there was different ethnicity in the general region at the time could be argued. But that ethnicity being Turk of all things is impossible.

They didn't arrive in that region until many centuries later in the middle ages.
He was Greek speaking because of the regions cultural heritage, but being of Greek ethnic origins is not so easy to determine.

It has been the east/west 'crossroads' for eons, he could have been an A-rab.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:56 AM   #142
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He was Greek speaking because of the regions cultural heritage, but being of Greek ethnic origins is not so easy to determine.

It has been the east/west 'crossroads' for eons, he could have been an A-rab.
Or Persian, or... *gasp* even a Turk!

If there were white people in the Americas (thousands of miles, separated by water) before even Columbus got there, you'd be dense to not believe there's a good chance that a nomadic trading people (from a region even closer than the Americas are to Europe and not separated by an ocean) wouldn't have intermingled with the Indo-European, Greek, Persian and other ethnicities in that area, particularly considering it lie along one of the world's most prolific trade routes.

But keep bangin' that drum, Beavis!
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:28 AM   #143
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He was Greek speaking because of the regions cultural heritage, but being of Greek ethnic origins is not so easy to determine.

It has been the east/west 'crossroads' for eons, he could have been an A-rab.
Pure Greek ethnicity is of course impossible to determine. I mean we have sitting US Senators who can't even really tell you whether they're white or not.

But from what we know, predominately Greek ancestry for St Nicholas is the most likely scenario. The one thing we can say for certain though is that Hough's repeated Turkish Santa mocking was a definite facepalmer.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:32 AM   #144
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He was Greek speaking because of the regions cultural heritage, but being of Greek ethnic origins is not so easy to determine.

It has been the east/west 'crossroads' for eons, he could have been an A-rab.
Greek was the primary language because of trade and the Byzantine Empire. It replaced Latin as the language to be spoken if you wanted to do business or learn during that era.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:43 AM   #145
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Beavis' contribution to this thread is the equivalent of when Homer was dreaming he was John Elway, he scored a touchdown and looked up and the score was 55-7.

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Old 12-31-2013, 11:54 AM   #146
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Beavis' contribution to this thread is the equivalent of when Homer was dreaming he was John Elway, he scored a touchdown and looked up and the score was 55-7.

Sometimes you've gotta take the only thing worth getting out of a thread otherwise arguing the genetics of a fictional character.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:05 PM   #147
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Beavis' contribution to this thread is the equivalent of when Homer was dreaming he was John Elway, he scored a touchdown and looked up and the score was 55-7.

One notices more posts from you about the color of a fictional character than the millions who have lost insurance and the NSA with expanded powers or spying on people. I guess as long as they don't spy just on homosexuals or minorities and don't profile it is ok. Amazing the 180 that happens in such a short period of time after the results of elections.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:13 PM   #148
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One notices more posts from you about the color of a fictional character than the millions who have lost insurance and the NSA with expanded powers or spying on people. I guess as long as they don't spy just on homosexuals or minorities and don't profile it is ok. Amazing the 180 that happens in such a short period of time after the results of elections.
As abhorrent as spying is (and drone warfare, and keeping Guantanamo open, and warfare in general), I've stated many times that the most important thing to me is the right to vote. Considering the implications of the VRA decisions and the fact that racism and discrimination are still very real, it should be of no surprise that those posts are what you notice most about me. Not comparing myself to him, but I'm sure someone like Frederick Douglass had views on economic policy and national security (such as it would have been at the time). They don't really talk about that much in history books, though, do they?

And as far as the "millions losing insurance"? People losing junk insurance is just another step in the direction we should be going (and ultimately will end up with), which is single payer.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:21 PM   #149
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One notices more posts from you about the color of a fictional character than the millions who have lost insurance and the NSA with expanded powers or spying on people. I guess as long as they don't spy just on homosexuals or minorities and don't profile it is ok. Amazing the 180 that happens in such a short period of time after the results of elections.
No comment about Txtebow's epic race obsession??

He's not a 'Liberal' so it's ok?

See how that works?
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