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Old 12-21-2013, 12:28 PM   #201
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Interestingly Brady is a much better QB now than when his TEAMS won 3 SBs. Need I remind you that Vinateri kicked and won two of those SBs. That Brady was playing on complete teams with an incredibly talented and cheating defense, a sound run game, and a clutch kicker. Interesting that as the completeness of the team around him has lessened so has his playoff fortunes.
Why wouldn't Brady be better now? The Pats were winning SB's during Brady's first 5 years in the NFL. He was 27 the last time they won the SB. Brady wasn't even in his prime.

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Too many one and dones huh. If the Broncos win the SB this year, it would be played in home games in the Denver Cold, and a SB in a Cold Met Life stadium. That would solidify Peyton and the argument of Cold weather and can't win in the big games.
That's why I said if Manning can win it this year, he can be included in the conversation for GOAT. If the Broncos lose in the 1st round, it would further cement Manning's one-and-done legacy.
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:50 PM   #202
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Why wouldn't Brady be better now? The Pats were winning SB's during Brady's first 5 years in the NFL. He was 27 the last time they won the SB. Brady wasn't even in his prime.



That's why I said if Manning can win it this year, he can be included in the conversation for GOAT. If the Broncos lose in the 1st round, it would further cement Manning's one-and-done legacy.
Nah, he'd still be in the conversation. Football aint tennis
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:58 PM   #203
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That's why I said if Manning can win it this year, he can be included in the conversation
no, he's already in the conversation. When people knock Manning it's like they forget he DID lead his team to a Super Bowl win and nearly to another. Ppl blame him for the Porter INT without mentioning the fact that the Indy D couldn't get a stop when it needed to or that Reggie Wayne just might have stopped short on his route resulting in the INT.

Watching Manning from 1998-currently I have a hard time trying to figure out how he wouldn't be in the conversation? He's had his hand in revolutionizing the game. He's probably the headiest and best pre-snap QB to ever play the game imo. How can someone say w/ a straight face that he already isn't in the conversation for best QB evah? I put less emphasis on statistics because it's not an even conversation discussing the passing stats of today's game vs. other eras. But even considering that, the numbers he has put up vis-a-vis his peers during his era are astounding. Also, an unprecedented comeback from the neck injury/surgeries to play at an elite level.

His "one-and-done legacy" is seemingly propagated by ignoring the fact that he's been to 2 Super Bowls and led a clutch and exciting AFCCG comeback vs. NE while getting to one of those Super Bowls.

Last edited by BroncosfanGuy; 12-21-2013 at 01:26 PM..
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Old 12-21-2013, 02:56 PM   #204
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Champ Bailey could start on those teams
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Old 12-21-2013, 02:58 PM   #205
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no, he's already in the conversation. When people knock Manning it's like they forget he DID lead his team to a Super Bowl win and nearly to another. Ppl blame him for the Porter INT without mentioning the fact that the Indy D couldn't get a stop when it needed to or that Reggie Wayne just might have stopped short on his route resulting in the INT.

Watching Manning from 1998-currently I have a hard time trying to figure out how he wouldn't be in the conversation? He's had his hand in revolutionizing the game. He's probably the headiest and best pre-snap QB to ever play the game imo. How can someone say w/ a straight face that he already isn't in the conversation for best QB evah? I put less emphasis on statistics because it's not an even conversation discussing the passing stats of today's game vs. other eras. But even considering that, the numbers he has put up vis-a-vis his peers during his era are astounding. Also, an unprecedented comeback from the neck injury/surgeries to play at an elite level.

His "one-and-done legacy" is seemingly propagated by ignoring the fact that he's been to 2 Super Bowls and led a clutch and exciting AFCCG comeback vs. NE while getting to one of those Super Bowls.
Broncos fans wish he was a one and done guy. He spanked the ever loving **** outta us twice!
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:07 PM   #206
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no, he's already in the conversation. When people knock Manning it's like they forget he DID lead his team to a Super Bowl win and nearly to another.
Cool, then you can add Kurt Warner, Ben Roethlisberger, and Brett Favre to the conversation too. IMO currently Manning doesn't crack the top 3.


Peyton Manning has made it to 3 AFC Championship games and 2 SB's (winning 1). Dan Marino made it to 3 AFC Championship games and 1 SB (with far less talented teams). I wouldn't even put Dan Marino in the top 10 all time.
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:15 PM   #207
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Why don't you and TheRev seriously consider: Are your points based on Manning wearing orange now? And your dislike of Brady personally (a dislike I more than share)?

Saddest part of your argument in my opinion is heaping credit for the 1st Super Bowl on Adam Vinateri. My friend, Senor Brady (as his in-laws call him) engineered a truly spectacular game winning drive. 3 of 4 kickers would've made that kick ... 1 in ump-teen QBs would've given him the opportunity. John Madden was squawkin' the whole way, "BAM! Play for OT! BAM! Play for OT!"
So your going to throw out hypothets about Brady. What if Tyre doesn't make that catch. Well we can do the same for Manning and it's much more powerful. What if Polian didn't strike out so much on draft picks, what if the Colts fielded a real team around Manning, what if Polian didn't miss manage the cap, what if Peyton had a real defense, what if in the multiple playoff games they lost their drunk idiot kicker was no other than mr. Clutch Vinateri, what if there was a defense capable of stopping the run so Peyton wasn't sidelined as much, what if Hank Basket recovers the on-side kick, what if Garçon doesn't drop the ball before half and Indy goes up 3 scores, what if our expectations of Peyton are so high, it diminishes what he actually does, what if in the playoffs against the better teams in the league he himself cannot fully mask the defencies of the team, what if he played his career in New England and Brady in Indy, what if, what if, what if...

You will not convince me that Brady makes Bellicheat.

Let's talk about playoff wins and numbers. Since Brady has 3 rings he's the GOAT? So you judge on SB wins? Well it should be Montana and Bradshaw a perfect 4-0. And you want to talk about hot starts early in a career, Joe Flacco has the best playoff record of any QB the first 5 years of his career, he has a ring too so he's better than Peyton right?
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:17 PM   #208
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Cool, then you can add Kurt Warner, Ben Roethlisberger, and Brett Favre to the conversation too. IMO currently Manning doesn't crack the top 3.


Peyton Manning has made it to 3 AFC Championship games and 2 SB's (winning 1). Dan Marino made it to 3 AFC Championship games and 1 SB (with far less talented teams). I wouldn't even put Dan Marino in the top 10 all time.
You cut almost my entire post to focus solely on my opening statement regarding Super Bowl wins.

Are we talking which QB has the most Super Bowl wins or taking a QB's body of work (Super Bowl wins included) to assess the best to play? If it's the latter, then let's go ahead and discuss the issue in its entirety instead of parsing posts. If it's the former, then just post a list in descending order of QBs with the most Lombardi trophies.

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Old 12-21-2013, 03:21 PM   #209
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CHARLES HALEY IS THE GREATEST FOOTBALL PLAYER OF ALL TIME!!!
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:26 PM   #210
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Broncos fans wish he was a one and done guy. He spanked the ever loving **** outta us twice!
Peyton Manning only won 3 playoff games before he turned 30 years old.

1. He spanked the Broncos and Larry Coyer twice (2003, 2004)
2. He beat a pathetic Trent Green 2003 Chiefs squad

That's it. That's all he could do , despite having Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Edgerrin James, Dwight Freeney (all 1st round draft picks), Robert Mathis, and Bob Sanders.

Last edited by pricejj; 12-21-2013 at 03:28 PM..
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:28 PM   #211
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CHARLES HALEY IS THE GREATEST FOOTBALL PLAYER OF ALL TIME!!!
Well, after Champ Bailey.
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:40 PM   #212
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Are we talking which QB has the most Super Bowl wins or taking a QB's body of work (Super Bowl wins included)
Body of work, of course. 1st round playoff losses are a big deal. There are lot's of QB's with more than 1 SB win, that I would never include on a top 3 of all time list.
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:47 PM   #213
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Peyton Manning only won 3 playoff games before he turned 30 years old.

1. He spanked the Broncos and Larry Coyer twice (2003, 2004)
2. He beat a pathetic Trent Green 2003 Chiefs squad

That's it. That's all he could do , despite having Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Edgerrin James, Dwight Freeney (all 1st round draft picks), Robert Mathis, and Bob Sanders.
I remember that game. It was exciting and it was crazy how Peyton Manning couldn't stop Priest Holmes that game. But he did manage to outscore the Chiefs in Arrowhead in December.

2003 Chiefs were #2 seed @ 13-3, #1 O in PPG, #2 O in yards per game w/ a middle-of-the-road D, #1 in turnovers-per-game. They were one of the best teams in the league that year. I think the 1998 Broncos and 2013 would have layed to the wood to them though.
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:01 PM   #214
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I remember that game. It was exciting and it was crazy how Peyton Manning couldn't stop Priest Holmes that game. But he did manage to outscore the Chiefs in Arrowhead .
Not sure how Peyton Manning managed to beat both Roc Alexander and the Chefs unstoppable playoff dynamo (last win 1993) before age 30, while being loaded on both Offense and Defense.

Meanwhile, John Elway went to 3 Super bowls before age 30, despite having no running attack, no OL to speak of, and a band of yahoo's at WR.
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:45 PM   #215
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Body of work, of course. 1st round playoff losses are a big deal. There are lot's of QB's with more than 1 SB win, that I would never include on a top 3 of all time list.
I just don't subscribe to the "you have to win the most Super Bowls to be considered the best" argument. There are entirely too many factors that rely on teammates, small sample sizes, and luck. Peyton has consistently been fantastic. And while marlon Mccree is fumbling Tom Brady into playoff wins, Rahim Moore is preventing mannings.
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:46 PM   #216
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I don't get why they both can't be in the conversation
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:54 PM   #217
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Of course it only takes one player to field a team and one to lose a game
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Old 12-21-2013, 05:35 PM   #218
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I don't get why they both can't be in the conversation
they are. and i think they are both pretty high on the list.
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:33 PM   #219
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Meanwhile, John Elway went to 3 Super bowls before age 30, despite having no running attack, no OL to speak of, and a band of yahoo's at WR.
and a decent group of borderline hall of famers on defense at various points in their careers
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:42 AM   #220
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I don't get why they both can't be in the conversation
Who are your top 3 QB's of all time?
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:00 AM   #221
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Who are your top 3 QB's of all time?
Well it has to be Joe Montana, Bradshaw, and then Aikman since we are going off SB rings.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:12 AM   #222
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Cool, then you can add Kurt Warner, Ben Roethlisberger, and Brett Favre to the conversation too. IMO currently Manning doesn't crack the top 3.


Peyton Manning has made it to 3 AFC Championship games and 2 SB's (winning 1). Dan Marino made it to 3 AFC Championship games and 1 SB (with far less talented teams). I wouldn't even put Dan Marino in the top 10 all time.
You are absolutely ridiculous for stating Marino isn't a top 10 QB of all time.

Just....ridiculous.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:57 AM   #223
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Only an idiot would state that the number of superbowls a player has won is the metric by which he should be ranked historically.

Trent Dilfer is just as good as Peyton Manning! And better than Marino! yippeeeee!
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Old 12-22-2013, 02:27 AM   #224
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I don't get why they both can't be in the conversation
They are (#1 and #2)
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Old 12-22-2013, 02:29 AM   #225
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Only an idiot would state that the number of superbowls a player has won is the metric by which he should be ranked historically.

Trent Dilfer is just as good as Peyton Manning! And better than Marino! yippeeeee!
Eli is the greatest Manning
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