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Old 12-19-2013, 04:50 PM   #151
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Nobody talks about Elway as one if the greatest of all time nor would most outside of the Denver fan base take Elway over Manning in that conversation.
Dan Patrick

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Dan Patrick @dpshow on record saying in his opinion Elway is the greatest QB of all time. That's what's up! Elway did more with less.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:56 PM   #152
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Elway's drive against the Oilers in the 1991 playoffs was a masterpiece.

Less than 2 minutes, no time outs, and he converted two fourth downs along the way to win a game they had no business winning.

I'll take Elway all day, e'ryday.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:59 PM   #153
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Elway's drive against the Oilers in the 1991 playoffs was a masterpiece.

Less than 2 minutes, no time outs, and he converted two fourth downs along the way to win a game they had no business winning.
The Drive II. IIRC, he scrambled left to convert the initial 4th down. Then on the next 4th down he scrambled left and the defender left Vance Johnson near the sideline to make sure Elway wouldn't run for the 1st down again and Elway tossed it to Vance for a HUGE play. Charlie Jones was going nuts in the press box and Todd Christianson sat in stunned silence after that play. And then the FG was barely good--probably would have hit the upright had it not been kicked over it.

That was a fun game.

Last edited by BroncosfanGuy; 12-19-2013 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:01 PM   #154
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John Elway Playoff Record: 14 wins, 7 losses
Peyton Manning Playoff Record: 9 wins, 11 losses

Against the Ravens in the Broncos playoff loss, Peyton Manning had 2 INT's (one of them a pick 6), and a fumble. All 3 of Manning's turnovers were in Denver territory, and the last INT ended the game. Did Manning play pretty well in that game? Yes. Was he great? No.

I know this doesn't fit your narrative. I know your mythic perception of Manning is deduced from gaudy numbers, and NFL regular season records. I do think Manning is the best ever at hitting the open man in less than 3 seconds. He's a great QB, one of the best of all time.

If Manning lost in the 1st round of the playoffs this year, and retired. Do you think he would generally be regarded as better than Elway? I don't.

I hope Peyton Manning can become the undisputed best QB of all time while winning a Superbowl for the Broncos. Come back to me when Peyton Manning wins a couple playoff game here in Denver. Until then, I'm going with Elway.
While I think Manning's playoff record is a bit skewed because of the teams he played for (you bring up last year, but that game should been over with his rating 100+), i'd probably take Johnny in the big game regardless. But lets not forget, Elway wasnt always amazing in the playoffs either. Hell, super bowl 32 was a stinker!
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:05 PM   #155
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The Drive II. IIRC, he scrambled left to convert the initial 4th down. Then on the next 4th down he scrambled left and the defender left Vance Johnson near the sideline and Elway tossed it to Vance for a HUGE play. Charlie Jones was going nuts in the press box and Todd Christianson sat in stunned silence after that play. And then the FG was barely good--probably would have hit the upright had it not been kicked over it.

That was a fun game.
They had trouble with the FG/XP snaps that game.

Kubiak botched one earlier and was damn lucky to get that last one down in time because it was low.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:06 PM   #156
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They had trouble with the snaps that game.

Kubiak botched one earlier and was damn lucky to get that last one down in time because it was low.
that's right. I think the long snapper was hurt. And then after the backup botched a snap earlier they brought the hurt longsnapper in and nearly botched it again.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:08 PM   #157
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that's right. I think the long snapper was hurt. And then after the backup botched a snap earlier they brought the hurt longsnapper in and nearly botched it again.
Reminds me of the playoff game against PIT in 1989 when the Steelers tipped a Treadwell kick, and it barely went over the crossbar.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:29 PM   #158
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The Drive II. IIRC, he scrambled left to convert the initial 4th down. Then on the next 4th down he scrambled left and the defender left Vance Johnson near the sideline to make sure Elway wouldn't run for the 1st down again and Elway tossed it to Vance for a HUGE play. Charlie Jones was going nuts in the press box and Todd Christianson sat in stunned silence after that play. And then the FG was barely good--probably would have hit the upright had it not been kicked over it.

That was a fun game.
That Elway throw on the 4th and 6 was probably the ugliest ball he ever threw!
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:35 PM   #159
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That Elway throw on the 4th and 6 was probably the ugliest ball he ever threw!
But it was beautiful at the time.

Think about it though, being right handed QB running to your left up the field. Im sure he was debating on running for it until the defender bit, so its not like he could stop, set his feet, burp the baby then throw the heater.
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:38 PM   #160
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That was an amazing drive made even more dramatic by all the incompletions setting up 4th downs. Manning would have hit those receivers on the first three downs.
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:41 PM   #161
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But it was beautiful at the time.

Think about it though, being right handed QB running to your left up the field. Im sure he was debating on running for it until the defender bit, so its not like he could stop, set his feet, burp the baby then throw the heater.
That catch by the Vance was tougher than it looked.

I've seen receivers drop lots of balls like that by turning upfield to run before they had it.
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:43 PM   #162
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That was an amazing drive made even more dramatic by all the incompletions setting up 4th downs. Manning would have hit those receivers on the first three downs.
Some of those downs were lost to spikes since the Broncos had no timeouts and the Oilers were guarding the sideline passes.

Elway's sheer improvisation made that drive happen.

I stand corrected. He missed like 3 deep balls going for it all.

He only spiked it on the play before the field goal. Remarkable.

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Old 12-19-2013, 06:45 PM   #163
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That catch by the Vance was tougher than it looked.

I've seen receivers drop lots of balls like that by turning upfield to run before they had it.
He did make a hell of a catch. No doubt about it.
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:44 PM   #164
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If Manning can win the Superbowl this year it would probably be the best year by a QB in NFL history.

I think if he could do it this year, he would be the best QB ever.

Come on Broncos. Come on Defense.


That Oilers game was back when Denver fans were loud and had passion. These fans now are wimps.

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Old 12-19-2013, 09:23 PM   #165
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That Oilers game was back when Denver fans were loud and had passion. These fans now are wimps.
tell that to those of us at the ravens game last year
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:34 PM   #166
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That Oilers game was back when Denver fans were loud and had passion. These fans now are wimps.
?

from my couch it seems Mile High has been rocking for the last 2 playoff games and the opening game of this season.
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:25 PM   #167
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?

from my couch it seems Mile High has been rocking for the last 2 playoff games and the opening game of this season.
Last year it was pretty damn loud in there
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:33 PM   #168
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?

from my couch it seems Mile High has been rocking for the last 2 playoff games and the opening game of this season.
I was near the south endzone for the opening game against the Ravens. The crowd was pretty good, but Manning set the TD record (so tough to tell).

I was also at the Chargers game, near the north endzone. Crowd was completely pathetic, except for a couple snaps in the 4th quarter. It's pretty pathetic when Phillip Rivers can run the no-huddle the entire game.
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Old 12-20-2013, 08:13 PM   #169
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Dan Patrick

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Dan Patrick @dpshow on record saying in his opinion Elway is the greatest QB of all time. That's what's up! Elway did more with less.
Retweeted by Jon Heath

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Hopefully you feel better now.
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:13 PM   #170
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this topic made me look up some recaps of the Broncos past SB's. Boy Elway's stats in his first 4 SB appearances were pretty rough. I wonder what the OM would have looked like if it had existed in the 80s.
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:41 PM   #171
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Hopefully you feel better now.
about what?
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:02 PM   #172
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That Elway throw on the 4th and 6 was probably the ugliest ball he ever threw!
If Manning never wins another SB he is already the GOAT. If the ratbirds wasn't getting away with murder last year, Manning wouldn't have thrown the int.
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:04 PM   #173
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this topic made me look up some recaps of the Broncos past SB's. Boy Elway's stats in his first 4 SB appearances were pretty rough. I wonder what the OM would have looked like if it had existed in the 80s.
Elway would have divided the OM. Everybody loved him or hated him. I felt all alone in the 80's defending Elway, saying he could have won those SBs with San Francisco's team. I know half the OM would have felt the same. Non-Broncos fans had a Brady-esque hatred for Elway. That's the crowd I grew up in.
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:43 PM   #174
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While I think Manning's playoff record is a bit skewed because of the teams he played for (you bring up last year, but that game should been over with his rating 100+), i'd probably take Johnny in the big game regardless. But lets not forget, Elway wasnt always amazing in the playoffs either. Hell, super bowl 32 was a stinker!
Manning's rating in last years playoff loss to the Ravens was only 88.3, including 3 turnovers (all in Broncos territory).

Elway's stats in SB32 weren't great, but he only had one bad play the entire game (the INT in the endzone, right after the Favre INT at the end of the 3rd quarter, which he forced). Elway went 12/22 for 123 yards with 1 INT, and 1 rushing TD. The gameplan was to pound the snot out of Green Bay's Defense (which they did). Elway's 10 incompletions were either throwaways (when nobody was open), or 40+ yards down the field, only where Broncos WR's could catch the ball.

Elway didn't have a statistically great game, but he played smart, made timely completions, and used his feet to get pick up crucial 1st downs when he was out of options (helicopter play on 3rd and 6 from the 12 yard line). The Green Bay DL had good pressure early forcing Elway to either throw the ball away or unload down the field. Terrell Davis and Steve Atwater had two of the best Bronco performances in history that day.
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:53 PM   #175
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Manning's rating in last years playoff loss to the Ravens was only 88.3, including 3 turnovers (all in Broncos territory).

Elway's stats in SB32 weren't great, but he only had one bad play the entire game (the INT in the endzone, right after the Favre INT at the end of the 3rd quarter, which he forced). Elway went 12/22 for 123 yards with 1 INT, and 1 rushing TD. The gameplan was to pound the snot out of Green Bay's Defense (which they did). Elway's 10 incompletions were either throwaways (when nobody was open), or 40+ yards down the field, only where Broncos WR's could catch the ball.

Elway didn't have a statistically great game, but he played smart, made timely completions, and used his feet to get pick up crucial 1st downs when he was out of options (helicopter play on 3rd and 6 from the 12 yard line). The Green Bay DL had good pressure early forcing Elway to either throw the ball away or unload down the field. Terrell Davis and Steve Atwater had two of the best Bronco performances in history that day.
I prefer to remember the games instead of looking up stats, but since you already have.

I knew that TD played a huge part but lmao at those numbers.
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