Fumble Benching

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

This fumbling issue is just as much on Studesville than it is on Ball and Hillman at this point.

It's an epidemic and they're clearly not prepared/unequipped to properly carry the football.

It seems late in the season for this, should have been worked on in TC but they are working on ball security this week FINALLY.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

I agree it is on Studesville, it is one thing to have one guy with fumbling issues but 3? Someone is not preparing these guys to protect the ball.

I guess if KM is inactive we might see Hillman at some point in the game. If KM is active it will be interesting to see who is the inactive this week. I would sure like to see more CJ Anderson.

[whoeey]

Hillman and Ball need to trade places. Anderson needs to be sittin right beside Ball studying the playbook. Also, are Anderson's hands so terrible that he couldn't handle that lob from PFM?

[ScottXray]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

It seems late in the season for this, should have been worked on in TC but they are working on ball security this week FINALLY.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

I agree it is on Studesville, it is one thing to have one guy with fumbling issues but 3? Someone is not preparing these guys to protect the ball.

I guess if KM is inactive we might see Hillman at some point in the game. If KM is active it will be interesting to see who is the inactive this week. I would sure like to see more CJ Anderson.

I think we are going to see all three of the new kids. Hillman does have the speed, but he just is not built to go into heavy traffic...Small hands.

Probably mostly Ball, spelled by CJ, with an occasional screen, toss sweep , or pitch out to Hillman to get him outside . And Hopefully they will use some play action ( this assumes that the run game is somewhat effective).

Hillman is the closest thing we have to Charles as far as speed in the backfield.

It would be nice if they actually put in a few plays with 21, 22 personnel , just to cross the cheaps up.

[spiralism]

Rookies fumble a lot in fairness, i wont jump down Ball's throat at all yet cause he could spell Moreno to great effect if he held on to the ****ing thing. Probably still the best option to be honest and they'll work on it...Moreno went from being the same level of butterfingers and an indecisive runner with poor awareness to ****ing Frank Gore so i'd have faith yet. We should keep the faith and see what works regarding RB combos in the final four games.

[Guess Who]

McGahee last year carried the ball 167 times for Denver and fumbled 5 times. This year in Cleveland he has carried the ball 101 times and has only fumbled once.


Maybe it is the dry Colorado air. The dry cold air makes the ball very hard and slippery. I don't know...grasping straws here.

[spiralism]

Originally Posted by Guess Who

McGahee last year carried the ball 167 times for Denver and fumbled 5 times. This year in Cleveland he has carried the ball 101 times and has only fumbled once.


Maybe it is the dry Colorado air. The dry cold air makes the ball very hard and slippery. I don't know...grasping straws here.

Nah, i dont buy that. He's averaged about 4 fumbles a season every year and has had a few seasons here and there where his ball security was better for one reason or another. Also, iirc at least 2 of those fumbles came in road games @ Atlanta and NE

[Blart]

Benching for 1 fumble is brainless tough-guy coaching.

[Guess Who]

Originally Posted by spiralism

Nah, i dont buy that. He's averaged about 4 fumbles a season every year and has had a few seasons here and there where his ball security was better for one reason or another. Also, iirc at least 2 of those fumbles came in road games @ Atlanta and NE

McGahee was not a fumbler until he came to Denver. He did well in Buffalo and Baltimore holding on to the football.

[Guess Who]

Originally Posted by Blart

Benching for 1 fumble is brainless tough-guy coaching.

It is not one fumble. It has been happening all year long. Denver leads the entire NFL in fumbles.

[*WARHORSE*]

I think he should have been benched. Its not like he got hit really hard. Ball was just NOT taking care of the football. Did we lose the game because of this benching? Not in and of itself.

Cons to benching Ball: Moreno got run more, even when he was a little hurt. Did it damage him more? Didnt seem like it. Ball would have brought fresh legs to the party. Other cons? I cant find any.

Pros to benching: You found out that CJ wasnt ready to play. Peyton seemed to be telling him something to do on every play. He tells Moreno and Ball sometimes too, however CJ never seemed to be an option in Peytons mind to throw to or be much of a factor.
Ball, Moreno, Hillman, and CJ got sent the same powerful message: Fumble, youre out. Take care of the damn football or SIT OUT. Anyone notice that fumbalina Knowshon doesnt fumble anymore?
This game while very important is not what we're playing for. Send this message now, and it may payoff when we play NE again in a possible playoff matchup.

Ball is realizing he let his team DOWN. He watched when they had to stick CJ in there vs him. Who was taking the practice reps at number 2? Ball. Who needed to go back into the game battered and tired? Knowshon, and BALL knows this was his fault.

Our Oline crushed the Patriots front seven. Think Ball likes having to look at them after that sissy fumble?

Benching him may not have paid off in this game, but we ran the ball down their throats the whole game and will most assuredly be planning on doing the same thing next time...which means BALL will be remembering his flub. Hold on to the ball BALL.

Those who run the football (and dont fumble) in the playoffs win games.


CJ needs to be better prepared. Im thinking pass protection may be taking a hit when hes in there not to mention not getting the reps in practice.

This week Im sure he will be more of a focus, and this is good.

All in all............I think it was the right choice to bench him.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by Guess Who

It is not one fumble. It has been happening all year long. Denver leads the entire NFL in fumbles.

Ah, so it doesn't just seem it. We never seem to recover them either

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by whoeey

Hillman and Ball need to trade places. Anderson needs to be sittin right beside Ball studying the playbook. Also, are Anderson's hands so terrible that he couldn't handle that lob from PFM?

Question should be why PFM hand the ball off to CJ under his chin?

[oubronco]

Get them all ready we're going to need them

[errand]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

Question should be why PFM hand the ball off to CJ under his chin?

Under his chin? Really?

Yes, a QB who has 16 years of handing off to numerous RB's over 6400 times is to blame , not the rookie RB who has 7 career carries in the big leagues.

[orinjkrush]

they need to find a high coefficient of friction shirt for under their pads/unis.

[broncosteven]

Ball's fumble was on the screen pass so I am not as concerned. They had run that play with success earlier, Pats were on it the 2nd time, Ball was trying to make the catch and look for room to run then was hit and it came out.

They should have kept him in the run game after that but it was nice to see CJ get some carries.

I think CJ could have a big day on the ground at kFc and he is our lone home run threat. He was able to get outside vs NE, he can do it vs a depleted and hobbled kFc D that is tumbling down the defensive rankings.

[Action]

Originally Posted by Guess Who

It is not one fumble. It has been happening all year long. Denver leads the entire NFL in fumbles.

Yeah and "guess who" leads our team in fumbles?

But yeah, let's just ignore that fact...

[Dean]

After over 35 years of coaching, I can honestly say that the bench is the best motivational tool a coach has. Watch and see if more attention isn't paid to ball security by both backs as they get another chance to play.

[whoeey]

Originally Posted by Action

Yeah and "guess who" leads our team in fumbles?

But yeah, let's just ignore that fact...

Go ahead and say it. Come on, say it. "Guess who" is the best qb in the NFL right now. Kinda does enuff to stay in the game

[errand]

QB's are almost always their team's leader in fumbles as they handle the ball on virtually every single offensive play. Amazing how alleged fans have to be reminded of this....

[CHEF LUIGI]

Originally Posted by Dean

After over 35 years of coaching, I can honestly say that the bench is the best motivational tool a coach has. Watch and see if more attention isn't paid to ball security by both backs as they get another chance to play.

sorry, I will take technique and practice over punishment.
a series off to contemplate what the fumble cost a player and his team, fine, but to be banished for the rest of the game or as in hillmans case the rest of the season?
very few players can be like KM and climb out of that hole, AND...
had the injuries not provided an opportunity, we may never have known what burned inside KM and what he was now capable of accomplishing.
Had bledsoe not been injured, I wonder how Bradys future may have played out.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by CHEF LUIGI

sorry, I will take technique and practice over punishment.
a series off to contemplate what the fumble cost a player and his team, fine, but to be banished for the rest of the game or as in hillmans case the rest of the season?.

It was 4 freaking fumbles in limited playing time. It is time for Ball to hit the bench.

[Requiem]

Hillman is active today. Lets see if he plays more like Marshall Faulk today.

[Mile High Mojoe]

Originally Posted by Gutless Drunk

Do you really think this is effective or is it just old-school neanderthal football culture? I guess it's not a black & white deal, but I think it was a bad idea last game.
I think you can also hurt the team by taking your talent off the field. I'm not certain they gain anything by benching- nobody wants to fumble. If it's Ridley and he has fumbled 4 games in a row I can see it. But this one fumble and you banished stuff is kind of extreme.

FWIW, Tom Nalen agrees -

As far as what went wrong for the Broncos, Nalen said they were running the ball well and towards the end of the game when Knowshon Moreno was starting to wear down they should have played Montee Ball more.

“Ball looked like the best back out there. He had the most explosive burst in his running game and looked like he was very confident,” Nalen said. “By sitting him on the sidelines because he fumbled … I think it hurt the team a little bit and maybe hurt his confidence.”

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/11/2...h-in-the-face/

I'm glad to see this thread on the OM. I agree 100%. Ball is going to be a better RB than Moreno once he gets the bulk of the work. I don't like the platoon system; it doesn't give a RB much of chance to get into a groove but they did run to many plays to Moreno in the 4th Q. Ball seems to come in on obvious running situations and still shows better speed and power between the tackles than Moreno. If he got more carries I’m convinced he’d produce more yards on the ground. He’s also caught more balls out of backfield lately and proved his capable there too. He just needs more playing time to learn the blocking schemes and he’ll be a great back for us.

[Durango]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Hillman is active today. Lets see if he plays more like Marshall Faulk today.

No offense, but are you kidding? Hillman isn't even a shadow of Faulk, and barely a passing resemblance. Maybe his running style is vaguely similar, but his production hardly rises to the level of back–up.