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Old 11-25-2013, 10:01 PM   #1
W*GS
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Default Publisher of "The American Conservative" favors higher min wage in CA

Conservative Leads Effort to Raise Minimum Wage in California

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Mr. Unz argues that significantly raising the minimum wage would help curb government spending on social services, strengthen the economy and make more jobs attractive to American-born workers.

“There are so many very low-wage workers, and we pay for huge social welfare programs for them,” he said in an interview. “This would save something on the order of tens of billions of dollars. Doesn’t it make more sense for employers to pay their workers than the government?”
He gets why this is wrong:


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Old 11-25-2013, 11:18 PM   #2
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Why don't you start a business with the goal of providing a living wage to unskilled employees who would otherwise make minimum wage? Put your money where your mouth is and show these greedy business owners how utopia works. Risk your personal capital and/or borrow money to compete with other businesses with no guarantee for anything but taxes, regulations, and liability. Pay your employees enough wages to comfortably provide for their families in sickness and health. Give them 6 weeks of annual paid vacation and ACA bronze level health insurance. The purpose of running a business in utopia is to provide social justice. Lead by example so these greedy capitalists can see the light.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:25 PM   #3
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Why don't you start a business with the goal of providing a living wage to unskilled employees who would otherwise make minimum wage? Put your money where your mouth is and show these greedy business owners how utopia works. Risk your personal capital and/or borrow money to compete with other businesses with no guarantee for anything but taxes, regulations, and liability. Pay your employees enough wages to comfortably provide for their families in sickness and health. Give them 6 weeks of annual paid vacation and ACA bronze level health insurance. The purpose of running a business in utopia is to provide social justice. Lead by example so these greedy capitalists can see the light.
Gotta love the hypocrisy of complaining about taxes while defending one of the biggest abusers of public funds in the history of the world.

It's like some sort of economic Stockholm syndrome.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:31 PM   #4
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Gotta love the hypocrisy of complaining about taxes while defending one of the biggest abusers of public funds in the history of the world.

It's like some sort of economic Stockholm syndrome.
Who's complaining? There is no guarantee of making a profit. Paying taxes is guaranteed. Simple fact.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:33 PM   #5
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Who's complaining? There is no guarantee of making a profit. Paying taxes is guaranteed. Simple fact.
So, because profit is not guaranteed you have no problem with your tax dollars being used to pad Wal-Mart's bottom line?
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:37 PM   #6
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So, because profit is not guaranteed you have no problem with your tax dollars being used to pad Wal-Mart's bottom line?
Show the world how it is done. Start a business with the goal of providing for your workers. Put Wal Mart out of business by the sheer fact that nobody will work slave wages when Utopia Mart is hiring.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:38 PM   #7
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Show the world how it is done. Start a business with the goal of providing for your workers. Put Wal Mart out of business by the sheer fact that nobody will work slave wages when Utopia Mart is hiring.
And here flowith the B.S. Answer the question.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:43 PM   #8
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What's stopping you from correcting the great injustice of WalMart slave labor by paying people a living wage?
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:50 AM   #9
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What's stopping you from correcting the great injustice of WalMart slave labor by paying people a living wage?
Not man enough to answer a simple question I see.
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:16 AM   #10
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Meh govt would raise min wage, they would raise prices, then govt would still spend just as much on entitlements. I at the notion a higher min wage would lead to less welfare. The liberals need the poor dependant on them to control their vote.
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:17 AM   #11
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Min wage goes up, so prices do also, and the poor people still have the same amount of money.
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:33 AM   #12
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Meh govt would raise min wage, they would raise prices, then govt would still spend just as much on entitlements. I at the notion a higher min wage would lead to less welfare. The liberals need the poor dependant on them to control their vote.
The best part is, the poor sabotage themselves shopping and working at Wal-Mart.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:43 AM   #13
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As for the idiocy of cutlet Dr. Broncenstein who seem to think it's impossible for a business to operate successfully without abusing its employees and being subsidized with tax dollars, once again reality is not on their side:

"Consider Costco and Wal-Mart’s Sam’s Club, which compete fiercely on low-price merchandise. Among warehouse retailers, Costco—with 338 stores and 67,600 full-time employees in the United States—is number one, accounting for about 50% of the market. Sam’s Club—with 551 stores and 110,200 employees in the United States—is number two, with about 40% of the market.

Though the businesses are direct competitors and quite similar overall, a remarkable disparity shows up in their wage and benefits structures. The average wage at Costco is $17 an hour. Wal-Mart does not break out the pay of its Sam’s Club workers, but a full-time worker at Wal-Mart makes $10.11 an hour on average, and a variety of sources suggest that Sam’s Club’s pay scale is similar to Wal-Mart’s. A 2005 New York Times article by Steven Greenhouse reported that at $17 an hour, Costco’s average pay is 72% higher than Sam’s Club’s ($9.86 an hour). Interviews that a colleague and I conducted with a dozen Sam’s Club employees in San Francisco and Denver put the average hourly wage at about $10. And a 2004 BusinessWeek article by Stanley Holmes and Wendy Zellner estimated Sam’s Club’s average hourly wage at $11.52.

On the benefits side, 82% of Costco employees have health-insurance coverage, compared with less than half at Wal-Mart. And Costco workers pay just 8% of their health premiums, whereas Wal-Mart workers pay 33% of theirs. Ninety-one percent of Costco’s employees are covered by retirement plans, with the company contributing an annual average of $1,330 per employee, while 64 percent of employees at Sam’s Club are covered, with the company contributing an annual average of $747 per employee.

...

Costco’s practices are clearly more expensive, but they have an offsetting cost-containment effect: Turnover is unusually low, at 17% overall and just 6% after one year’s employment. In contrast, turnover at Wal-Mart is 44% a year, close to the industry average. In skilled and semi-skilled jobs, the fully loaded cost of replacing a worker who leaves (excluding lost productivity) is typically 1.5 to 2.5 times the worker’s annual salary."

The short version:

Costco demonstrates that you can treat your employees (even the unskilled and low skilled) like human beings and still have a cost competitive, highly profitable business without relying on public subsidy like Wal-Mart. Costco does it by focusing on employee retention to minimize turnover, which is not some liberal utopia dream, it's just good business 101.

http://hbr.org/2006/12/the-high-cost-of-low-wages/ar/1
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:31 AM   #14
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Fedaykin, I agree with your statement above wholeheartedly but it is an obvious apples to oranges comparison as stated in the article. Target vs Walmart would be better or Costco vs BJ's since they don't have Sam's Club's break down. Either way though I am quite surprised because I know several people that when they lost their jobs when the economy went south they got jobs with Wal-Mart and were earning close to 20 an hour after only a year. Apparently they lucked out.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:50 AM   #15
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Show the world how it is done. Start a business with the goal of providing for your workers. Put Wal Mart out of business by the sheer fact that nobody will work slave wages when Utopia Mart is hiring.
You need to look at it from Fedaykin’s viewpoint, you don’t stop Walmart by competing with them on the open market. You can only fight them with government legislation.

Legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity it’s the new American Dream.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:56 AM   #16
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Min wage goes up, so prices do also, and the poor people still have the same amount of money.
Except for the ones now replaced by minimum-wageless and health- insuranceless automation.

Now they have no money and are complete wards of the state.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:03 AM   #17
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Fedaykin, I agree with your statement above wholeheartedly but it is an obvious apples to oranges comparison as stated in the article. Target vs Walmart would be better or Costco vs BJ's since they don't have Sam's Club's break down. Either way though I am quite surprised because I know several people that when they lost their jobs when the economy went south they got jobs with Wal-Mart and were earning close to 20 an hour after only a year. Apparently they lucked out.
Wal-Mart's new CEO Doug McMillon's first job was working a summer associate at a Wal-Mart distribution center and said "I'm a basketball guy. You can compare the retail business to basketball. You have to have a plan, you have to hustle, you have to rely on each other, and there's a scoreboard on the wall," he said. Similarly, he told Fortune in 2008 that he learned more during his first six months at Wal-Mart "than I learned in 5 1/2 years of post-secondary education."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...illon/3699159/
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:18 AM   #18
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Lol. Costco pays all of its employees a living wage? I have agreed that Walmart is greedy and exploits those with no marketable job skills. I don't shop at WalMart. Couldn't care less about Walmart and their clientele. The premise of the thread is that all business should be required to pay a living wage to unskilled minimum wage earners for the pursuit of utopia. Lead by example. Open a business and put your financial future on the line while paying minimum wage types a living wage plus your idea of acceptable benifits. Or STFU.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:25 AM   #19
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Lol. Costco pays all of its employees a living wage? I have agreed that Walmart is greedy and exploits those with no marketable job skills. I don't shop at WalMart. Couldn't care less about Walmart and their clientele. The premise of the thread is that all business should be required to pay a living wage to unskilled minimum wage earners for the pursuit of utopia. Lead by example. Open a business and put your financial future on the line while paying minimum wage types a living wage plus your idea of acceptable benifits. Or STFU.
Don't have to. There are plenty of examples that show treating your employees like human beings and not relying on government assistance to pay your workforce is a viable business model.

It's hilarious how much overlap there is between people that complain about people on public assistance and the people that go to the mat to defend the business practices that increase the need for public assistance (solely to boost profits).

Apparently single mothers on public assistance = leeches, but big, hugely profitable businesses on public assistance = a must for society.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:26 AM   #20
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You need to look at it from Fedaykin’s viewpoint, you don’t stop Walmart by competing with them on the open market. You can only fight them with government legislation.

Legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity it’s the new American Dream.
Ah yes, here comes the straw men! Look how shocked I am!
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:28 AM   #21
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Except for the ones now replaced by minimum-wageless and health- insuranceless automation.

Now they have no money and are complete wards of the state.
Last time I checked, Costco et al. don't use automation more than anyone else, yet maintain decent pay and high profits.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:29 AM   #22
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Ahh, so reliable are the righties at exposing their hypocrisy. They LOVE them some welfare, as long as it's for the rich.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:31 AM   #23
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Last time I checked, Costco et al. don't use automation more than anyone else, yet maintain decent pay and high profits.
You don't think the "buy items in huge bulk off of pallets" model is a little more automated than normal brick and mortar retail?

I guarantee you the average Costco employs far fewer people per store than Walmart.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:47 AM   #24
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It's hilarious how much overlap there is among people who demand society provide for others, and those who have no interest in subjecting themselves to societal demand.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:49 AM   #25
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So, because profit is not guaranteed you have no problem with your tax dollars being used to pad Wal-Mart's bottom line?
Why you are only obsessed with Wal-Mart and why not companies like Amazon that pays their warehouse workers $11.00 and hour, that's about 22K a year, I’m pretty sure that would qualify the head of household for food stamps. Amazon treats the warehouse pickers like crop pickers only it’s an inside job. Where's the outrage?
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