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Old 11-15-2013, 01:16 PM   #76
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That's where you're missing something. Once the single-payer price fix sets in, a whole second market begins. The best providers take cash (or private coverage) and get paid what the market will pay. The lower-tier providers stay behind and manage the squeeze chute for the 'rest of us'

So long as everyone's ok with that, it works ok. Problem is, these same Progressives will never be ok with that once the rubber meets the road.
I think that is a bit simplistic. Specialty providers will still take pateints with insurance, because it pays better than primary care. Also, what some of these MD in primary care find out is, by the time they have a panel of 500 cash paying pateints, they work 80 hours a week, spend tons of time on call, and its costs them a fortune to run a stand alone practice... most INternists will navigate to Kaiser or an Academic Medical Center, where they can still make a good salary, see 20-30 patients a day and don't have to worry about all the BS of a concierge medicine practice- plus they tend to get primary care support agreements in those places where the specilties support primacy care wish is always a money loser.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:24 PM   #77
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I think that is a bit simplistic. Specialty providers will still take pateints with insurance, because it pays better than primary care. Also, what some of these MD in primary care find out is, by the time they have a panel of 500 cash paying pateints, they work 80 hours a week, spend tons of time on call, and its costs them a fortune to run a stand alone practice... most INternists will navigate to Kaiser or an Academic Medical Center, where they can still make a good salary, see 20-30 patients a day and don't have to worry about all the BS of a concierge medicine practice- plus they tend to get primary care support agreements in those places where the specilties support primacy care wish is always a money loser.
It won't look much like concierge medicine. That's a whole different animal, and a product of today's market. Under single payer, you'll have whole separate health channels. Especially in decent-sized markets where there's enough market that doesn't need any public coverage.

That is unless some sort of economic incentive (like queue hopping) is introduced. But that brings about a whole other set of problems.
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:03 PM   #78
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Life expectancy in Colorado (80 years) is the same as the U.K. (80). Yet you want the U.S. to go to single payer for life expectancy reasons?



Life expectancy in Hawaii (82.7 years) is better than in any single payer country.
Yeah, that's what I posted, a rational for adopting a single payer system so we could all live to the same age.

Actually, for half the cost of the US system with everyone covered and free market supplemental insurance, not a bad idea. Well done.

I actually would prefer to head towards the Singapore model. But the right wing, at the same time, want the Singapore system, but reject or deny its mandates and government controls. Sound familiar?

An excellent Healthcare blog sums it up nicely.

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That’s how you get conservatives advocating for Singapore’s health care system without any real understanding of it.
Singapore’s system has massive subsidies for nursing homes, rehabilitation care, and home-based care. It requires mandatory savings – 36% of wages spread over various accounts.
The government also provides a basic level of care that’s heavily, heavily subsidized. And here’s the kicker – it relies on tons of government intervention in the market to keep costs down.
They use centrally planned and fixed budgets, they control the acquisition of new technology, they regulate the number of students and physicians,
they use purchasing power to buy drugs more cheaply, they have an employer mandate for foreign workers,and they have a national EHR. They’re also not the most open society in the world.

Here’s the thing. I bet you could find lots of liberal wonks, and lots of Democrats, who would be fine with much of the above.
You want Swisscare? Great. You want Singapore? OK. The problem is that’s not what’s offered. It’s Swisscare, but without a mandate.
Guess what? That’s doesn’t work – that’s why Swisscare has a mandate!

They suggest Singapore, but without the mandatory savings, public hospitals, and government management. That doesn’t work – that’s why Singapore has those aspects.

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Old 11-15-2013, 05:14 PM   #79
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Whoever voted for Obama, is an absolute moron.
So, then, you were a Sarah Palin guy?
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:25 PM   #80
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At the end of the day, insurers and CMS pay for testing and procedures based on evidence based recommendations from expert panels.
So depending on the age of the patient and the advancement of their illness an expert panel will determine if the patient can pull money from the pool they have paid into. In other words government run death panels.

Last edited by Pony Boy; 11-16-2013 at 07:43 AM..
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:25 PM   #81
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Actually, for half the cost of the US system with everyone covered and free market supplemental insurance, not a bad idea. Well done.
How about we go quarter the cost and live longer with the Singapore approach? Much better.

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So, then, you were a Sarah Palin guy?
In 2008 I was the only person in Boulder County to vote for Gene Amondson (to see if my vote would actually be counted), because I was disgusted with Obama and McCain.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:36 AM   #82
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So let me get this straight:

The republi-cons had eight years to fix the problem, did absolutely nothing, and now they actually think they're credible when they talk about health care reform?

L0L!

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