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Old 11-08-2013, 03:23 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
Putting money in companies like facebook, twitter, etc. is not an investment. It's gambling.
this
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:25 PM   #27
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Most investments are gambles.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:50 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
Putting money in companies like facebook, twitter, etc. is not an investment. It's gambling.
I have to agree with Buffet's dictum of not putting money in things you don't understand. That's why he invests in things like ice cream. Easy to understand. You buy stuff, you turn it into ice cream, you sell the ice cream.
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:03 PM   #29
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Most investments are gambles.
All investments are gambles. The higher risks have the higher rewards.
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:24 PM   #30
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David Weidner's article is spot on.

Your Twitter investment is doomed — here’s why
Commentary: Even successful companies find it hard to overcome hype


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Do you think Warren is buying Twitter? Get real.

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Your biggest problem is that you haven’t done your homework. You haven’t read the S-1. You probably have never read any S-1. You don’t even know what an S-1 is . That’s what makes you Wall Street’s favorite customer. You bought Groupon GRPN +0.39% and Zynga Inc. ZNGA 0.00% — but don’t talk about it with friends. You keep that tidbit under wraps. Like that unfortunate tattoo.

Now you’re crowing about how your Facebook Inc. FB -0.27% investment has turned around. Well, guess what? You got lucky. And I bet you sold most of your position on the way down. Frankly, it’s a wonder you have anything left to invest. Good thing there are still opportunities for you. Get used to saying, “Hello, and welcome to Walmart!”
To make it clear, I’m going to make it simple. I’m going to use the ABCs.

“A” is for active users. Twitter TWTR +0.24% has 200 million of them. That’s impressive. What’s more impressive? More than 650 million users are inactive. (Read: fad.)

“B” is for bonus. The underwriting brokers at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. GS +2.21% are looking at a big one if they can oversell Twitter. Given the last-minute price increases, it looks like they’ll get it.

“C” is for cashout. See also “B” (And cross-reference Twitter’s early backers.)

“D” is for Dorsey. As in Jack Dorsey, the most-visible co-founder of Twitter. Let’s be honest: Dorsey is a smart guy. But name a single innovative idea he’s had since Twitter was launched. Now compare Twitter’s evolution with Facebook’s. Facebook added video, messaging, new search capabilities — the list goes on. Twitter? Squat. Just a bunch of annoying ads, even if they’re called promoted tweets.

“E” is for ego. Twitter folks act as if they’ve cured cancer. What’s the difference between Twitter and a cancer cure? People would pay for a cure.

“F” is for Facebook. Twitter is exactly like Facebook except it doesn’t have active users, profits or any obvious way to make a profit.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/you...why-2013-11-07
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:54 PM   #31
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Most investments are gambles.
That's why capital gains tax needs to be low. Super low. When you invest you can lose money and it really is a lot like gambling.
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:57 PM   #32
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That's why capital gains tax needs to be low. Super low. When you invest you can lose money and it really is a lot like gambling.
Lottery winnings are taxed at 35%. That's fair for capital gains/gambling.
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:08 PM   #33
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All investments are gambles. The higher risks have the higher rewards.
There's a difference between informed investing, and tossing money at a "hot stock" that you know nothing about and hoping you make money on it.
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:12 PM   #34
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I have to agree with Buffet's dictum of not putting money in things you don't understand. That's why he invests in things like ice cream. Easy to understand. You buy stuff, you turn it into ice cream, you sell the ice cream.
In this case it's NOT putting money into something I do understand, heh.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:22 AM   #35
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I have to agree with Buffet's dictum of not putting money in things you don't understand. That's why he invests in things like ice cream. Easy to understand. You buy stuff, you turn it into ice cream, you sell the ice cream.
Warren Buffet has over 2 billion invested in Walmart and you're right it's easy to understand unless you’re a liberal that thinks Walmart is doomed for failure.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:30 AM   #36
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Lottery winnings are taxed at 35%. That's fair for capital gains/gambling.
great comparison as usual. People can stop playing the lottery and we will be fine. People stop investing and see what happens.......oh wait we are seeing what happens.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:47 PM   #37
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great comparison as usual. People can stop playing the lottery and we will be fine. People stop investing and see what happens.......oh wait we are seeing what happens.
Is that why the stock market is at an all-time high?

Is that what we're seeing?
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:22 PM   #38
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Is that why the stock market is at an all-time high?

Is that what we're seeing?
It's interesting that stock and bond investors are frequently touted as 'job creators.'
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:25 PM   #39
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It's interesting that stock and bond investors are frequently touted as 'job creators.'
The capital gains argument is one of the more ignorant (non-religion-based) arguments the right makes.

"Oh, my profits of investments are being taxed more than I want, so instead of still making money, I'm just not going to invest and then I'll make no money. That'll show 'em!"
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:50 PM   #40
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Is that why the stock market is at an all-time high?

Is that what we're seeing?
The market has been pumped up with $85 billion in QE every month.

The nation's productivity -- I mean production of real goods -- has not increased proportionally to match the market high.

Ergo, it's a bubble.
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:57 PM   #41
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The capital gains argument is one of the more ignorant (non-religion-based) arguments the right makes.

"Oh, my profits of investments are being taxed more than I want, so instead of still making money, I'm just not going to invest and then I'll make no money. That'll show 'em!"
Investors will always invest. It just may be in another country. We already tax capital and income much more than any other rich country. Only Denmark, France and UK exceeded us in 2011, but we are the worst in 2013.


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Old 11-09-2013, 09:01 PM   #42
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Investors will always invest. It just may be in another country. We already tax capital and income much more than any other rich country. Only Denmark, France and UK exceeded us in 2011, but we are the worst in 2013.


Where in the hell are they making that sh*t up from?

The maximum cap gains rate is short term gains for $400,000+ earners, which is taxed @ 39.6%+state taxes. Minimum (long term gains) is now 20%+state, up from 15%+state.

The maximum dividend rate for is 39.6% +state for foreign investment, or 20%+state if you invest long term (defined as >120 days) in companies that are incorporated (and taxed) in the U.S. It's also unchanged except the reintroduction of the 39.6% bracket up from the 35% top bracket.

Of course, dividends come from taxed profits, but if you are investing in a foreign company, their profits are not being taxed. Thus, the max becomes:

Qualified dividends
(i.e. a U.S. taxed Company): (against original corporate income)

35% (max corporate rate) + 9.75% (15% of 65%) + state = 44.75% + state (49.38% in Colorado)

The above assumes a company paying their marginal rate, which is almost never the case. The average effective tax rate for a corporation is 12.6%, making the above:

12.6% + 13% (15% of 87.4%) + state = 25.6% + state (30.23% in Colorado)

Regular Dividends
(investing in a foreign company):

0% + 39.6% + state = 39.6% + state (44.23% in colorado)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_dividend

For an upper middle class person/family in Colorado ($150,000 single taxpayer, Colorado), the typical rates are:

Qualified Dividends: 29.4% (rate including average corporate ETR)
Long Term Gains: 23.8% (new 2013 rate, was 19.63%)
Short Term Gains: 31.8%

Compare this to an average federal tax rate on regular income (read, income derived from adding value to the economy) in that bracket (using $150,000 Gross income)

20% (income with tons of deductions ETR, could easily be much higher) + ~13% (FICA est) + 3.8% (state ETR) = 37%

(EDIT: corrected based on > 113000 income being regressive under FICA)
(EDIT2: all rates corrected for state ETR vs state MTR)

...and, you know why I'm hoping to expand the portion of my income derived from caps and divs. Actually producing something of worth in the economy is taxed far more than sitting on your ass making money from money. Which is why our society and economy are fundamentally broken.

Last edited by Fedaykin; 11-09-2013 at 09:30 PM..
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:00 AM   #43
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Agreed.

Not kill them. Make them efficient to where they are actually writing contracts, negotiating, and closing the deal. In other words getting paid for the services they actually perform thus savy everybody money and saving the agents time. It's a win win.

The days of having to drive someone around are just about over. Most people find their own homes anyway yet still pay 3% to the agent. Pointless.

We're changing the way buyers AND sellers find one another. Agents will still be needed to put the pieces together unless both parties are experienced with buying/selling. Unlikely.



Trying to figure out how to fix the "idiot lenders" but there have been over 200 pieces of legislation from our Idiot government to regulate them the last few years so most have no clue what they are doing. Just joking with the idiot lender crack. There are some good ones left in the industry.
Sounds like an exciting idea. Good luck my friend. We can all say we knew you 'when'.
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:19 PM   #44
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Warren Buffet has over 2 billion invested in Walmart and you're right it's easy to understand unless you’re a liberal that thinks Walmart is doomed for failure.
I doubt that anybody thinks Walmart is doomed to failure, just that their business model is highly unethical, immoral and bad for our country.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:15 PM   #45
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Where in the hell are they making that sh*t up from?
Let's say you make $100 in pre tax earnings on an American company. $39.20 goes to corporate taxes. Your after tax earnings are now $60.80 taxed again at 20% capital gains. Your after-after tax earnings are now $48.64 and that's already lower than half your original income without even adding in the state taxes yet. There's not another country in the world with higher double taxation.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:11 AM   #46
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Let's say you make $100 in pre tax earnings on an American company. $39.20 goes to corporate taxes. Your after tax earnings are now $60.80 taxed again at 20% capital gains. Your after-after tax earnings are now $48.64 and that's already lower than half your original income without even adding in the state taxes yet. There's not another country in the world with higher double taxation.
Actually read my post, then try again.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:14 AM   #47
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Repeat after me x100:

My marginal tax rate does not describe the overall tax I pay.
My marginal tax rate does not describe the overall tax I pay.
My marginal tax rate does not describe the overall tax I pay.
My marginal tax rate does not describe the overall tax I pay.
My marginal tax rate does not describe the overall tax I pay.

...
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Old 12-10-2013, 02:21 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
Putting money in companies like facebook, twitter, etc. is not an investment. It's gambling.
I'm starting to fell like I made a pretty good investment (I mean gamble) when I jump heavy on this stock in November.

Twitter stock hits $52

Twitter's stock price climbed nearly 6 percent in Tuesday trading, reaching a new record closing level of $51.99.

The pricey stock has jumped since the company said Dec. 5 it would use ad retargeting to boost revenue. Based on a user's browsing history on company websites, tailored advertising would be fed into the user's Twitter interface, including appearing on mobile devices.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...k-hits-52.html
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:02 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
I'm starting to fell like I made a pretty good investment (I mean gamble) when I jump heavy on this stock in November.

Twitter stock hits $52

Twitter's stock price climbed nearly 6 percent in Tuesday trading, reaching a new record closing level of $51.99.

The pricey stock has jumped since the company said Dec. 5 it would use ad retargeting to boost revenue. Based on a user's browsing history on company websites, tailored advertising would be fed into the user's Twitter interface, including appearing on mobile devices.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...k-hits-52.html
Did you use bitcoins?
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
I'm starting to fell like I made a pretty good investment (I mean gamble) when I jump heavy on this stock in November.

Twitter stock hits $52

Twitter's stock price climbed nearly 6 percent in Tuesday trading, reaching a new record closing level of $51.99.

The pricey stock has jumped since the company said Dec. 5 it would use ad retargeting to boost revenue. Based on a user's browsing history on company websites, tailored advertising would be fed into the user's Twitter interface, including appearing on mobile devices.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...k-hits-52.html
Did I say you couldn't win the gamble?
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