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Old 11-05-2013, 04:08 PM   #101
Mat'hir Uth Gan
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Thoughts as follows:


1. Eddie Lacy

Lacy is a special running back. As a forum, we had a lot of discussion on him leading up to the draft in a multitude of threads. Based on film study, I became convinced he was a better prospect than both Richardson and Ingram. I was very upset we took Ball over Lacy. The talent difference is massive. That said, we were told the medical (fused toe) was the reason he fell out of the 1st round, and the Broncos, in particular, passed on him in the 2nd. So, we have to see what happens over the length of this rookie contract. If the toe never proves to be a problem, a lot of front offices were wrong. I think most people expected Lacy to be the best RB from this draft in the short term.


2. Alec Ogletree

I liked him as an athletic SAM. He's been okay as a WILL. He's terrible in run defense at the point of attack, but excellent in coverage. St. Louis flips their LBs and plays nickel a ton, so he's basically in coverage a ton. He's part of the reason the Rams suck at run defense though. When he puts on 10-15 lbs of muscle, he's going to be elite.


3. Montee Ball

He's a better than average RB prospect, that was definitely a product of Wisconsin's system. He has stone hands, which probably won't change, but at some point he should be able to learn blitz pickup. Lacy is far superior in both areas. I think we should have drafted Lacy, we're in a short term minded Superbowl push anyway.


4. Judging Rookies

I don't think it's too early to make some judgments. Half the season is gone, and we've seen these guys in action. You can see their positives and negatives, which are mostly the same as they were on college tape. I mean, you look at Zac Stacy, and he's doing exactly what he did at Vanderbilt. Lacy is doing what he did at Alabama. Ogletree is doing what he did at Georgia. Ray Rice has clearly fallen off ala Shawn Alexander and Larry Johnson from massive usages dating back to Rutgers. I think that concern applies to Ball whom had massive usages at Wisconsin. Contrary to John Fox, I think it's a huge negative to have massive workloads in college, so I think Ball has a shorter shelf life than most RBs. At this point, I'm just hoping Ball isn't a stone handed version of Kevin Smith.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:10 PM   #102
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Good thoughts MUG, nice call on Lacy to the Packers.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:16 PM   #103
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I would say you have it totally backwards when it came to the Lacy pick. It's not long term people were concerned about. He'll eventually heal. It was the short term, not knowing if that problem toe would keep him off the field parts of this year. The Broncos went with the option they felt would give them the best talent but without risk of a current or lingering injury. And to be quite honest, you can't judge these guys in just 1/2 a season. Lacy is a starting RB getting all the carries. Ball had his chance early but made a few mistakes. Moreno has stepped it up big time and thus forcing Ball to 2nd string.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:37 PM   #104
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I would say you have it totally backwards when it came to the Lacy pick. It's not long term people were concerned about. He'll eventually heal. It was the short term, not knowing if that problem toe would keep him off the field parts of this year. The Broncos went with the option they felt would give them the best talent but without risk of a current or lingering injury. And to be quite honest, you can't judge these guys in just 1/2 a season. Lacy is a starting RB getting all the carries. Ball had his chance early but made a few mistakes. Moreno has stepped it up big time and thus forcing Ball to 2nd string.
No, it is a long term issue with Lacy. The toe problem puts more stress on the rest of his leg/knee/hip and will progressively cause him more issues in the future. It was assumed that he would be fine at first but his health would deteriorate after a few years. Although most RB's don't do much after their first contract anyway, so I'm not sure why so many passed on him.

As far as Ball is concerned, he has definitely shown flashes, but the consistency isn't nearly there yet. He's a wreck pass blocking and receiving out of the backfield, which I think is a rookie thing. He hasn't looked terrible running the ball, but doesn't really know what to do if there's no hole and often goes down easier than he should. When the zone read play is set up well by the line he looks great, but that happens 1 out of every 5 runs. I'm sure we'll see more consistency as he gets more comfortable.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:40 PM   #105
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Everything is based on circumstance. Trevathan moved to full-time WILL after WWIII got moved into MIKE.

I didn't envision the team having Danny as a full-time WILL this year. Which is why I advocated drafting Ogletree to give us flexibility with who we had. Whoever out of WWIII/Ogletree performed better, that is where you would place them.

I like Danny as a player, but I'd take Ogletree over him and a heartbeat. Long-term, I would probably take him over WWIII though, but he's my boi and I drafted that boi in OM Mock draft boi.
I'm not knocking him nor when you picked him. Infact, I loved the idea of him playing Will in Cincy and said as much. Ogaltree wouldn't fit in a crowded situation that we entered in. WW at Will with Trevethan as his direct back up and the sub package NLB. All intentions were Irving to play Mike and we had Bradley as the back up plan. I don't think you can have enough coverage guys and he would have made a great asset to the team, but it's similar to our brass passing on David two years ago. And he's a stud.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
Thoughts as follows:


1. Eddie Lacy

Lacy is a special running back. As a forum, we had a lot of discussion on him leading up to the draft in a multitude of threads. Based on film study, I became convinced he was a better prospect than both Richardson and Ingram. I was very upset we took Ball over Lacy. The talent difference is massive. That said, we were told the medical (fused toe) was the reason he fell out of the 1st round, and the Broncos, in particular, passed on him in the 2nd. So, we have to see what happens over the length of this rookie contract. If the toe never proves to be a problem, a lot of front offices were wrong. I think most people expected Lacy to be the best RB from this draft in the short term.


2. Alec Ogletree

I liked him as an athletic SAM. He's been okay as a WILL. He's terrible in run defense at the point of attack, but excellent in coverage. St. Louis flips their LBs and plays nickel a ton, so he's basically in coverage a ton. He's part of the reason the Rams suck at run defense though. When he puts on 10-15 lbs of muscle, he's going to be elite.


3. Montee Ball

He's a better than average RB prospect, that was definitely a product of Wisconsin's system. He has stone hands, which probably won't change, but at some point he should be able to learn blitz pickup. Lacy is far superior in both areas. I think we should have drafted Lacy, we're in a short term minded Superbowl push anyway.


4. Judging Rookies

I don't think it's too early to make some judgments. Half the season is gone, and we've seen these guys in action. You can see their positives and negatives, which are mostly the same as they were on college tape. I mean, you look at Zac Stacy, and he's doing exactly what he did at Vanderbilt. Lacy is doing what he did at Alabama. Ogletree is doing what he did at Georgia. Ray Rice has clearly fallen off ala Shawn Alexander and Larry Johnson from massive usages dating back to Rutgers. I think that concern applies to Ball whom had massive usages at Wisconsin. Contrary to John Fox, I think it's a huge negative to have massive workloads in college, so I think Ball has a shorter shelf life than most RBs. At this point, I'm just hoping Ball isn't a stone handed version of Kevin Smith.
Sometimes you were spot on, other times not so much.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:46 PM   #107
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Green Bay wanted Ball. There were several inside sources claiming they thought they could trade down and we'd take Lacy. They preferred Ball in their ZBS over Lacy. Montee may still prove to be the better player over time.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:40 PM   #108
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Sometimes you were spot on, other times not so much.
For sure. My biggest issue is with the smaller school guys, not enough exposure. I think collectively this forum did pretty well in evaluating the prospects especially pre-combine. I know there are some draft sites that do early work, but it always amazes me just how much the draftniks actually get right so early in the process. Really looking forward to seeing how we all do this time around.
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:04 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
For sure. My biggest issue is with the smaller school guys, not enough exposure. I think collectively this forum did pretty well in evaluating the prospects especially pre-combine. I know there are some draft sites that do early work, but it always amazes me just how much the draftniks actually get right so early in the process. Really looking forward to seeing how we all do this time around.
You leave my small school prospects alone!
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