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Old 11-04-2013, 11:56 AM   #26
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I like Decker, he's a nice part of the team and comes up big more often than not. I just had to learn to accept his once per game boneheaded play, to stop raging.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:01 PM   #27
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Once Von Miller gets back up to football speed, some of you who are calling for letting go of Phillips may change your mind. He will be able to draw the double teams, while Von creates havoc. Letting go of a speedy pass rusher would be a mistake, IMO...
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:13 PM   #28
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Until we know what we could get at WR and how much Decker would cost it's hard to say. Manning probably would like to keep them all and that probably matters some. Woodayrd and DRC you would think are locks to stay. Kuper, Bailey have to prove before the end of the yr they can still play or they are gone IMO.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:14 PM   #29
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Depending on if the rookie Q. Smith ever plays, that could determine Phillips future next yr. Williams coming on could determine Vicks.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Large View Post
Eric better hope he is not covered on that random pass, no way he goes out of his way to fight for it... probably just let is hit the turf and looks for a flag...

I think Decker is probably an overpaid faux #1 on another team next year, although I would like to see him here very much.
i dont think NFL will see him as a number 1. He doesn't have the outside speed. IMO he's a top end number 2wr. Runs good routes, avg hand, avg speed, pretty good toughness. Put him on a good offense and he will do well. Make him the center focus of any offense and IMO he would be pretty avg.

Hell Broncos could probably play Caldwell and not miss a beat.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:22 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by eddie mac View Post
In order of importance and obviously dependant upon what kind of market price they'd be looking for, how would you rank the priority of retaining these guys that are hitting the market next season?

I have deliberately not included Chris Harris as he is restricted and there's no way we'll let him walk.

For me it is as follows.

1. DRC with the aging Bailey he'd be my 1 priority
2. Woodyard, leader of the defense in the middle
3. Decker, important part of the aerial offense
4. Beadles, decent OG, but we do have Kuper and Moffitt
5. Phillips, top pass rusher this season
6. Ayers, decent starting DE, but we could do better
7. Walton, plagued with injury and Ramirez is doing a decent job
8. Unrein (RFA) decent rotation guy but not worth more than base minimum
9. Mike Adams, aging safety
10 Caldwell, rarely sees the field

Broncos will be a lot tighter against the cap next season so in all likelyhood some of the following may be in danger of release.

Champ $10m cap hit
Dreesen $3.3m cap hit
Tamme $3.8m cap hit
Vickerson $3.5m cap hit
Kuper $5.9m cap hit ( he already reduced his salary this season, so it'll likely be him or Beadles and not both)

Your thoughts?
Don't forget Trindon Holliday, Duke, Chris Harris and Tony Carter will all need new contracts as well.

There will be a LOT of moving money around to resign these guys and get everything in order.
I do see us resigning DRC, Woodyard, Beadles, Holliday, Duke and Chris Harris. Decker is a wild card, I think people underrate his ability a little on here, but if some team is willing to throw top dollar money at him, let him walk because Demaryius is more important.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:45 PM   #32
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This is what WILL happen.

Champ is done. They won't bring him back at all. Manning will take a restructure in order to keep Decker. Decker will stay a Bronco. Manning won't want to start all over with a new guy for what could possibly be his final year. No way that happens. DRC and Woodyard will stay now that Champ's monster salary has been dumped. I agree with Kaylor, where I think it gets really interesting is our OL. Clark didn't sign a huge contract but it's more then just back up money. And with Kuper doing his restructure, I could easily see the Broncos trying to retain all of these guys. Possibly the one I think could be gone is Walton due to how well Manram has played. You now can just draft a center as backup and see what potential he has. Adams will probably stay. He'll come cheap. I think Ayers could be gone as well. I think the team will lean on Jackson for that role and go to the draft again trying to find a more dynamic pass rusher, as well they can see how this other kid we got last year turns out. But Jackson could handle that spot right now just as good if not better then Ayers.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:57 PM   #33
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Lots of other teams also need WRs and Bellicheat is too cheap. Plus
the draw of going to play with Brady/Belli is starting to fade. NE is not a draw like it was a few years ago, and Belli is somewhat of a hard ass, just look at Welker and what happened there.
Yup, plus they have historically undervalued the WR position.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:59 PM   #34
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I say we tell Decker we are taping his new contract terms to a random pass this year and he only gets it if he holds onto it.
This was funny when he was dropping passes.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:03 PM   #35
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This was funny when he was dropping passes.
Cool, I said hold onto it which can cover a few things.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:06 PM   #36
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Kuper is an UFA at the end of the season. After his restructure, he's only under contract for this season.

Trindon Holliday will be an ERFA.

Woody brings the D together and is the emotional and vocal leader. I would put him as the #1 priority, followed closely by DRC and Harris. Decker is a luxury as a 3rd receiver, not a need. I'm guessing that him and Beadles will be gone. Moffit is more than capable of taking his place on the left side.

Keep in mind that the Broncos will have tougher decisions to make in 2015. They are going to have to let some of this talent go after the season to be able to re-sign the class of 2015:
Von Miller
Demaryius Thomas
Joel Dreesen
Orlando Franklin
Virgil Green
Nate Irving
Duke Ihenacho
Terrance Knighton
Knowshon Moreno
Rahim Moore
Julius Thomas
Wes Welker
Kevin Vickerson
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:08 PM   #37
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I really hope we can win a SB and send Champ out in style. I don't know about Decker. I assume some teams, like the Pats for example, will be shopping heavily for WRs. How much are we willing to spend? Ayers, I could see being replaced by Malik. As far as Vickerson, I leave that to JDR. He's an expert on those big pluggers. Are they that easy to replace? DRC is number one. Get it done. Woodyard also. No options there. Shaun is definitely worth keeping. He's been a surprise. Walton is gone. Adams gone. Unrein seems to make big plays (especially in the run game) when he gets a chance. Definitely worth a minimum or a bit more. Beadles? Can Kupe stay healthy? Got to keep some blocking TEs. The key going forward is not allowing PmfM to take so many hits.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:19 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
Decker is a luxury as a 3rd receiver, not a need.
Why do folks continue to perpetuate this myth?

3rd receivers don't lead the team in targets. Period.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:23 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie mac View Post
In order of importance and obviously dependant upon what kind of market price they'd be looking for, how would you rank the priority of retaining these guys that are hitting the market next season?

I have deliberately not included Chris Harris as he is restricted and there's no way we'll let him walk.

For me it is as follows.

1. DRC with the aging Bailey he'd be my 1 priority
2. Woodyard, leader of the defense in the middle
3. Decker, important part of the aerial offense
4. Beadles, decent OG, but we do have Kuper and Moffitt
5. Phillips, top pass rusher this season
6. Ayers, decent starting DE, but we could do better
7. Walton, plagued with injury and Ramirez is doing a decent job
8. Unrein (RFA) decent rotation guy but not worth more than base minimum
9. Mike Adams, aging safety
10 Caldwell, rarely sees the field

Broncos will be a lot tighter against the cap next season so in all likelyhood some of the following may be in danger of release.

Champ $10m cap hit
Dreesen $3.3m cap hit
Tamme $3.8m cap hit
Vickerson $3.5m cap hit
Kuper $5.9m cap hit ( he already reduced his salary this season, so it'll likely be him or Beadles and not both)

Your thoughts?
1a/b - DRC and Woodyard - We absolutely need both of them back
2 Decker
Beadles and Walton are gone unless they come back cheap
3 Ayers - Solid
4 Phillips if he comes cheap again, but will see a few $M more (3-5/year).
5 Adams has been much better in a limited role this year, I'd like him back as rotation/depth
6 Unrein - solid rotation, needs more TD catches.
7 Caldwell - I'd take him back cheap, which is what he'll command. He knows the system and is good for a 4/5 WR

0% chance Champ makes $10m next year. He restructures he will stay, otherwise we can't afford it and keep our young core around (sad part of the business of the NFL)
I could see both Tamme and Dressen gone, would love to have one (or both) back, but no way we're committing $7m to them in 2014
Vickerson - Don't let the door hit you.
Kuper - who knows? If he's 100% then bring him back (but probably not going to be back at almost $6m)

You take half of that $10M for Champ, $7 for the TEs, $3.5 for Big Vick and at least half of Kuper's $6 and we'll have around $17-20M for resigning the others - plus the cap will go up and more than likely we'll ask Peyton to restructure again.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:24 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
Why do folks continue to perpetuate this myth?

3rd receivers don't lead the team in targets. Period.
He's leading the team in targets because Welker and Thomas are drawing all of the double teams. No myth there.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:32 PM   #41
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He's leading the team in targets because Welker and Thomas are drawing all of the double teams. No myth there.
Yup. Let's just ignore all those numbers he put up before Welker even got here.

12th in the league in yards, 17th in receptions and 32nd in TDs this season. But he's some easily replaceable 3rd receiver? Ok. Caldwell and his one catch per game isn't going to replicate that kind of production.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
Why do folks continue to perpetuate this myth?

3rd receivers don't lead the team in targets. Period.
Hahahaha, I was just about to say the same thing. Luxury? This offense is a "passing" offense. We can run good from time to time and we'd love to get better at it but what we do best is pass the ball. This type of offense NEEDS 3 good WR's. And I still don't think people quite understand, PM is going to play (after this year) maybe 1 or 2 more years. Why on earth would you want to lose a guy like Decker who has worked with Manning now for 2 full seasons (once this season is over). It takes time to develop the sense of how PM likes the routes to be run and the timing of it all. That doesn't just happen over night. Not saying another guy couldn't come in here and do that, but a guy that has the skill and ability of somebody like Decker, won't come cheap either. Now we probably aren't going to pay him extreme over the top money, but I'm not sure other teams will "overpay" for him as so many others like to point out. He's not going to go to some other team and be the #1. He's not that type of WR. Not to mention, they're going to account for the fact he's playing in a pass first offense and with a HOF'er throwing him the ball. I really can't see the Broncos not trying to give him a fair deal and if that meant PM tweaking things on his own contract to get that done, I'm sure he would. For the chance at PM possibly getting another shot or 2 at a title, would he be willing to shave a few million vs saying no, I want to keep my 2 or 3 million but let me roll with a guy like Caldwell as my 3rd option vs a guy like Decker. I just don't see that happening, at all. It's not like a asking a 4 million dollar guy to tweak his salary to fit somebody else on the team. You're talking about a guy who's been making elite money his entire career and could definitely afford it and then some.

I think the 4 guys the Broncos will keep for sure, no matter what, are Decker, Harris, Woody and DRC. Ok, I'll add one more because he won't be too expensive at all is Holliday. Those 5 are lagit returners in my book.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:46 PM   #43
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Yup. Let's just ignore all those numbers he put up before Welker even got here.

12th in the league in yards, 17th in receptions and 32nd in TDs this season. But he's some easily replaceable 3rd receiver? Ok. Caldwell and his one catch per game isn't going to replicate that kind of production.
You really think that Decker's numbers would be comparable if he was the #1 receiver without DT on the other side and Manning throwing to him? Decker is talented, but re-signing him is not worth losing a guy like DT or Von over because of his salary the next season. Decker is going to get a good contract because of those numbers. If you think he's a true NFL #1 receiver in this league then we'll agree to disagree.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:52 PM   #44
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You really think that Decker's numbers would be comparable if he was the #1 receiver without DT on the other side and Manning throwing to him? Decker is talented, but re-signing him is not worth losing a guy like DT or Von over because of his salary the next season. Decker is going to get a good contract because of those numbers. If you think he's a true NFL #1 receiver in this league then we'll agree to disagree.
First, it's "Decker is only good cause he has DT and Welker taking away two double teams. He's a #3 at best."

Now, it's "Decker is only good cause he has DT taking away double teams. He's not a true NFL #1 receiver."

All it took was one post to get you to completely move the goal posts in your argument.

The guy had 8 TDs his first real season with freaking Tebow, over 1000 yds and 13 TDs his next season. That was all before Welker even got here and with him facing double teams regularly. He's good. #1 good? Why not?
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:05 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
First, it's "Decker is only good cause he has DT and Welker taking away two double teams. He's a #3 at best."

Now, it's "Decker is only good cause he has DT taking away double teams. He's not a true NFL #1 receiver."

All it took was one post to get you to completely move the goal posts in your argument.

The guy had 8 TDs his first real season with freaking Tebow, over 1000 yds and 13 TDs his next season. That was all before Welker even got here and with him facing double teams regularly. He's good. #1 good? Why not?
First of all, I never said that Decker is only good because he has DT taking away double teams. What I said was the he's leading the team in targets because Welker and DT are taking the double teams. Before you accuse someone of 'completely moving the goal posts in their argument', you might want to actually read what was written rather than twist their words to fit your point. I stand by my opinion that Decker is not a legit #1 in the NFL. My guess is that we'll find out next year when he's with another team. Unless of course, he signs for less money to stay here. Elway isn't going to pay him #1 WR money knowing that DT's contract is up the next year.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:08 PM   #46
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Ziggy, you called him a "third receiver" before I even posted about targets. He is not now, nor has he ever been some scrub third receiver.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:10 PM   #47
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Ziggy, you called him a "third receiver" before I even posted about targets. He is not now, nor has he ever been some scrub third receiver.
Where did I say scrub? He's the 3rd best receiver on this team. Counting JT, he might actually be the 4th. The stats don't reflect that because the other two WR's are commanding double teams consistently. Again, don't put words in my mouth.

Beantown, I think you misunderstand my intent here. I don't believe that Decker is better than DT or Welker. That doesn't make him a scrub, it just makes him a 3rd WR on this team. You really think that Elway will re-sign him to #1 money or anything close to it, knowing that DT will be a free agent the next season? If he is a true #1 as you say, another team will offer him that kind of money, and then we'll find out.

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Old 11-04-2013, 03:50 PM   #48
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It's not really about the value Denver places on Decker, it's about the value he places on himself as a free agent.

Is he the best WR on the team? No.
Is he the best WR in a weak FA class? Probably yes.

Decker's going to want to see what's out there as a free agent. He would be stupid otherwise given the weak WR class at FA and the number of teams that would be lining up to outbid Denver for him.

I just don't see us competing with that given our other FAs, not just this offseason but in '15.

That's why Tamme is so important. Losing Decker to FA isn't going to be such a big loss if we can still run two TE sets with JT/Tamme and have Welker/DT as well.

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Old 11-04-2013, 03:54 PM   #49
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I think they keep Decker. Oz will need some weapons.
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:59 PM   #50
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Eric Decker, Wes Welker and Demaryius Thomas are our equivalent to the Big 3 with the Miami Heat.
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