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Old 10-23-2013, 01:19 PM   #26
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Glad to hear that everyone is still on board with keeping Decker (why this was even a question baffles me)

Also, not to gripe on the penalties from this past game, but not a lot was mentioned on this in the podcast, other than our own stupid mistakes, obvious penalties killed 3 or 4 of our drives.

edit: Also on the Vickerson thing, the guy acted a fool, but you don't go and cut a guy for it. (unless you are therev, then I suppose half the roster could be empty by seasons end)

Last edited by ludo21; 10-23-2013 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:32 PM   #27
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A huge baby? Really? Commenting twice on something, especially here, hardly qualifies as making an awfully big deal of something. I've seen disagreements go literally pages long here at the mane. I already said it's ok for us to disagree. Now you're throwing the baby card out there. Man you're sensitive dude. But hey, whatever man. I'll be sure in the future to only comment about things I agree with. If I disagree then I'll just keep that to myself. Censorship at it's finest.
Fine, we'll go down this road:

1. In what planet do you feel Vickerson is an essential cog to the success of the Broncos? Some information to consider while you form your reply: Vickerson averages approximately 20 snaps per game (1/3 to 1/4 of the defensive snaps) and even when he is in, frankly not that good, and was a MASSIVE liability and a primary contributor to Denver's only loss of the season.

2. Wouldn't you agree that if Sly Williams were playing well Vickerson would be unemployed right now? Why would you not want that level of ethical consistency from the organization?
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:58 PM   #28
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Fine, we'll go down this road:

1. In what planet do you feel Vickerson is an essential cog to the success of the Broncos? Some information to consider while you form your reply: Vickerson averages approximately 20 snaps per game (1/3 to 1/4 of the defensive snaps) and even when he is in, frankly not that good, and was a MASSIVE liability and a primary contributor to Denver's only loss of the season.

2. Wouldn't you agree that if Sly Williams were playing well Vickerson would be unemployed right now? Why would you not want that level of ethical consistency from the organization?
Yes, it clearly looked like Vickerson was trying to twist/hurt Satele's knee, but we don't know what happened before it that may have led to Vickerson doing what he did.

Did he make a stupid decision in the trenches? Yes.

Should the team unequivocally cut him without finding out what exactly happened if Satele had tried something before? Hell no.

Leave this one to the Ginger Hammer, he's got wood for this type of thing and I would expect Vickerson to be treated the same way as any other guy who's screwed up on the field.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:01 PM   #29
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Yes, it clearly looked like Vickerson was trying to twist/hurt Satele's knee, but we don't know what happened before it that may have led to Vickerson doing what he did.

Did he make a stupid decision in the trenches? Yes.

Should the team unequivocally cut him without finding out what exactly happened if Satele had tried something before? Hell no.

Leave this one to the Ginger Hammer, he's got wood for this type of thing and I would expect Vickerson to be treated the same way as any other guy who's screwed up on the field.
In bold is the part that matters. You can easily replace his production and contribution on the waiver wire without condoning dirty/unethical behavior and risking further incredibly stupid **** that can cost the outcome of future football games.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:07 PM   #30
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In bold is the part that matters. You can easily replace his production and contribution on the waiver wire without condoning dirty/unethical behavior and risking further incredibly stupid **** that can cost the outcome of future football games.
Nah, teams don't view it that way. Team rules (contracts) usually state "conduct detrimental to the team/organisation" and not the opposition.



Otherwise you would have to cut your secondary every time they go for a helmet to helmet hit on a defenseless WR.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:15 PM   #31
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Nah, teams don't view it that way. Team rules (contracts) usually state "conduct detrimental to the team/organisation" and not the opposition.



Otherwise you would have to cut your secondary every time they go for a helmet to helmet hit on a defenseless WR.
Behavior like that is and WAS absolutely detrimental to the team...

Two part question: When was the last time you saw someone in Orange and Blue behave like that and what is it about Vickerson's play that you're willing to compromise some morality to keep him in the lineup?
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:20 PM   #32
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Behavior like that is and WAS absolutely detrimental to the team...

Two part question: When was the last time you saw someone in Orange and Blue behave like that and what is it about Vickerson's play that you're willing to compromise some morality to keep him in the lineup?
other than this incident when has he proved to be dirty?
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:22 PM   #33
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Behavior like that is and WAS absolutely detrimental to the team...

Two part question: When was the last time you saw someone in Orange and Blue behave like that and what is it about Vickerson's play that you're willing to compromise some morality to keep him in the lineup?
1. When one of the OL (was it Nails)? took out a DT's knees on a play when it was clear Plummer was going to spike the ball. There was a huge fight on the field, the DT from the Chargers was still pissed off next year. I think the guy ended going on IR with a busted knee and wasn't the same player again.

2. I'm not compromising my morality - just yours!
But seriously, Vickerson doesn't have a previous history of being a dirty player. He gets a 2nd chance in my book. Obviously if he does it again, then that's a different matter.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:50 PM   #34
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1. When one of the OL (was it Nails)? took out a DT's knees on a play when it was clear Plummer was going to spike the ball. There was a huge fight on the field, the DT from the Chargers was still pissed off next year. I think the guy ended going on IR with a busted knee and wasn't the same player again.

2. I'm not compromising my morality - just yours!
But seriously, Vickerson doesn't have a previous history of being a dirty player. He gets a 2nd chance in my book. Obviously if he does it again, then that's a different matter.
I didn't think that was second chance material at all. Guess there's the difference.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:44 PM   #35
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I didn't think that was second chance material at all. Guess there's the difference.
Fair enough.

Be interesting to see if the ginger hammer calls it out. It wasn't against a high profile player (QB), so I'm guessing no.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:39 PM   #36
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George Foster and jamaal williams.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:58 PM   #37
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All I can say Rev is that Vickerson is playing well, even if it's for 1/3 of the plays. There are no real stats to measure a DT beasting against the OL taking up 2 linemen and allowing LB's to run free. Vince Wilfork never had beast stats but you could tell he was an important part of the success for the Pats defense. I'm in no way saying Vickerson is as good as Wilfork, but he's playing really solid none the less. And as somebody else pointed out, who knows what happened. Maybe that OLmen did something to him and he was retaliating. I don't know. If Sly was playing great, maybe he would't be starting. But the team did think he was playing good enough and is important enough to have signed him again. That's says something about they guy. I don't think the Broncos have any problems with dirty players. Nobody on our team has a "reputation" as being dirty. I think this was a one time thing and again, who knows if he was provoked or not. And thanks for coming down this road. It was fun no?
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:01 PM   #38
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Definitely could have used Chris there to tone down the Shanny nob polishing I knew would happen the moment I heard TJ introduce only Rev and SoCal, but whatcha gonna do…

Good analysis as usual, thanks guys!
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:41 PM   #39
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I think we needed Champ on ST's because we lost a gunner like Willis last year. Not that Willis was a great offensive WR but he was great on ST's. Sounds like they wanted Champs ability to run and make tackles to limit returns.

Mike Anderson was lost for the year in the 4th quarter of a PS game but star players contribute on ST's.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:48 PM   #40
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I agree Duke and Safety coverage has been crap.

I hope that Champ can get close to 100% for kFc game even if it is only a rotation.
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