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Old 10-16-2013, 01:38 AM   #126
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Well I like you too..

But I've got bad news for you. Single payer isn't ever going to happen in this nation, and the reason is that nobody was willing to fight for it using the same tooth and nail tenacity that Ted Cruz was willing to. Nobody was willing to become controversial. Nobody was willing to stick their neck out for it. Nobody was willing to rally the base for it.

Obamacare is going to go supernova. The technological problems with it are going to take more than 90 days to untangle. The system they're trying to establish is like getting Legos to work with Kinects to work with Duplo blocks to work with cinder blocks to work with a video game. And that's without mentioning the security problems which nobody has even scratched the surface on yet. The truth is that the security for this kind of distributed computing is still very much in its infancy. I could go on about this, but it would be pointless...

The point, however is that while the technological problems are untenable in themselves, the economic matter is still an open issue, and when that hits, the thing is done.

When that happens, what Democrat is going to be able to run on their idea for healthcare? Who is going to be able to fight for single payer? Does Hillary Clinton have credibility to make another run on Healthcare? Who is going to be the single payer champion?

The Democrats are already behind on this issue. They're going to be playing defense in an election year against a "Reform and Replace" message. That defense is going to be centered around "making Obamacare work." Their solution will be to entrench around Obamacare and run on the idea that it would work if only more Democrats were elected who could help fix it. They're going to be running on fixing a broken system.

I wish them luck. It will be an interesting race. But if you're holding out hope for single payer, I hate to break it to you, but there's no political wind there. Democrats aren't like the Republicans where there is a dissent faction willing to challenge the establishment even if it means risking power and taking hits in the opinion polls doing what they think is the right thing. They're a party that finds safety in numbers, and won't tolerate dissent in the ranks.
I think single payer is inevitable because it is the only logical way to provide health care to a nation of people. I don't even think it's political. It's pragmatism. Eventually, everybody will surrender to the inevitable reality that you can't jam healthcare into a profit matrix, especially when you pile on an unnecessary insurance industry with its extraneous profit structure.

As far as the politics goes, I think the country has gone crazy, frankly. We have a whacko, hysterical minority backed by billionaires that's just flinging **** all over the place. Hell, they brought the overturn of Obamacare to the floor 42 times and failed and now they hold the economy of the world hostage for the same fail. Some of the old, conservative pols in Washington like King and McCain have pointed out, it was crazy and pointless to begin with. To keep going with it is just mindless stupidity. I expect the inevitable backlash to come from that majority of voters in the middle who are going to realize that this is no way to run a country. How long any of this will take is anybody's guess.

It's hard to remember given all the noise they make, but the whackos on the Right represent only about 25% of the population. If not for extreme gerrymandering, they would have lost the House in the last election. When this extremist minority is allowed to call the shots and create this much turmoil due to systemic failures of government, that ain't democracy at work. It's more akin to terrorism.

As far as Obamacare goes, I didn't think it would work anyway, but now the Right has gone so crazy that the focus has shifted off of Obamacare and on to them. So, politically, another fail on their part. This is why you don't let children drive the car.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 10-16-2013 at 01:42 AM..
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:51 AM   #127
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How extreme have House Republicans become?

Radical televangelist Pat Robertson thinks they've gone too far for his tastes.

TV preacher Robertson sees GOP as too extreme

hen even TV preacher Pat Robertson thinks the Republican Party is too extreme, the GOP has problem.



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Old 10-16-2013, 09:41 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post
How extreme have House Republicans become?

Radical televangelist Pat Robertson thinks they've gone too far for his tastes.

TV preacher Robertson sees GOP as too extreme

hen even TV preacher Pat Robertson thinks the Republican Party is too extreme, the GOP has problem.



Now they'll claim Pat Robertson is a RINO, just like they did with former presidential candidates McCain and Romney.

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Old 10-16-2013, 10:16 AM   #129
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I think single payer is inevitable because it is the only logical way to provide health care to a nation of people. I don't even think it's political. It's pragmatism. Eventually, everybody will surrender to the inevitable reality that you can't jam healthcare into a profit matrix, especially when you pile on an unnecessary insurance industry with its extraneous profit structure.
If anything's inevitable, it's that Doctors and people with money will continue to work off of a profit matrix, regardless of what you do to them.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:19 AM   #130
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Now they'll claim Pat Robertson is a RINO, just like they did with former presidential candidates McCain and Romney.

Hint: When kooks think you are acting crazy, it's way past time to reeevaluate what you're doing.

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Old 10-16-2013, 05:36 PM   #131
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If anything's inevitable, it's that Doctors and people with money will continue to work off of a profit matrix, regardless of what you do to them.
I'm all for doctors getting the money. Why should insurance companies get any? Under single payer, doctors would be liberated from the overhead of dealing with insurance paperwork and able to see more patients.
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:50 PM   #132
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Tea Party popularity plummets

www.msnbc.com

The last several weeks have taken a severe toll on the GOP's standing, but the American mainstream is also starting to turn against the Tea Party in particular.

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Old 10-16-2013, 07:18 PM   #133
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:31 PM   #134
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^

InfoWars? L0L!

No wonder support for your Teabilly Party is circling the drain.

Even snake-handling whack jobs like Pat Robertson are jumping off the bandwagon.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:15 AM   #135
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$24 billion just so some extremists can throw a tantrum. There's some "conservatism" for you.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:57 AM   #136
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Speaking of the Tea Party, good stuff from Sullivan. BB will not like this. He will not like it, Sam I Am.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...as-a-religion/
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:10 PM   #137
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Tea Party Crazies Shake the World & China Wants Off

Is there any doubt that this was an influential factor in the resolution of the crisis?

After all, the TeaTards answer to the banksters/military industrial complex, and the latter answer to their creditor (read: China.)
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:44 PM   #138
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I'm all for doctors getting the money. Why should insurance companies get any? Under single payer, doctors would be liberated from the overhead of dealing with insurance paperwork and able to see more patients.
I fail to believe you've ever worked in healthcare if you believe that government reimbursement frees anyone from any kind of paperwork.

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Old 10-18-2013, 10:50 AM   #139
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It may be more useful to compare the tea-party movement to a different sort of party that tends to crop up in parliamentary systems: far-right populist parties based on backward-looking ideologies of national identity. In France, the Netherlands and Austria, such parties consistently win substantial portions of the vote. Like the tea-party movement, they tend to be fiercely protective of existing social-welfare programmes that benefit the elderly and the ethnic majority, and bitterly opposed to social-welfare programmes that benefit ethnic minorities or immigrants.

And like the tea-party movement, they can win by losing: their partisans may treat legislative defeats as a badge of honour, and in any case, when government is stymied, the economy weakens, and people get angry, populist parties that avoid responsibility and stay out of government draw more support. But in parliamentary systems, fringe populist parties are rarely included in governing coalitions, in large part because their tendency to value expressive identity-based politics over concrete legislative goals makes them extremely difficult for other parties to work with. The weakness of two-party systems such as America’s is that purists who treat politics as a type of self-affirming performance art have to be included in one party or the other, and indeed are likely to regard themselves as being that party’s true soul.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...ty-republicans
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:04 AM   #140
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Makes a very good point. Their biggest problem is that many of them view pragmatism as betrayal. And it can make life much more difficult for everyone.

But it's not just TP'ers. That mentality exists in many different groups, and manifests itself in many ways depending on the balance of power.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:14 AM   #141
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Makes a very good point. Their biggest problem is that many of them view pragmatism as betrayal. And it can make life much more difficult for everyone.

But it's not just TP'ers. That mentality exists in many different groups, and manifests itself in many ways depending on the balance of power.
Political idealism should only be practiced by those who are not in power. When in power pragmatism is always superior to idealism, sadly in a strict 2 party system pragmatism is often considered betrayal when in reality the best solutions would almost always be found somewhere between the idealist positions.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:06 PM   #142
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Political idealism should only be practiced by those who are not in power. When in power pragmatism is always superior to idealism, sadly in a strict 2 party system pragmatism is often considered betrayal when in reality the best solutions would almost always be found somewhere between the idealist positions.
'I second this'
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:08 PM   #143
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'I second this'
I third-ed it
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:52 PM   #144
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:58 PM   #145
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:46 PM   #146
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I fail to believe you've ever worked in healthcare if you believe that government reimbursement frees anyone from any kind of paperwork.
Medicare is far more efficiently administered than any commercial health insurance is.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:48 PM   #147
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When you see them waving the Confederate flag at Tea Party rallies you can pretty much guess the tradition they're coming from. Couldn't win the Civil War, maybe they can figure out a different way to bring down this government?
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:44 PM   #148
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Medicare is far more efficiently administered than any commercial health insurance is.
Efficiency for Medicare does not equal efficiency for Providers. Go find a physician in private practice and ask her how easy CMS makes her life.

Part of Medicare's gig is basically having the effect of law. Often laying mandates on providers that other payers could never get away with.
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Old 10-19-2013, 06:42 PM   #149
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When you see them waving the Confederate flag at Tea Party rallies you can pretty much guess the tradition they're coming from. Couldn't win the Civil War, maybe they can figure out a different way to bring down this government?
It would be nice if they would just secede like they're always dreaming about and stop dragging the country down to their level.
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