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Old 10-15-2013, 01:00 PM   #101
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This is hyperbole. I don't doubt that you believe it though. The Republicans have long advocated healthcare savings accounts and other market based reforms, and to this day still do.
Two thirds of America is living paycheck to paycheck. Savings my ass.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:05 PM   #102
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Two thirds of America is living paycheck to paycheck. Savings my ass.
How are they going to feel when the ACA starts impacting their paychecks by hundreds of dollars every two weeks?

That's already starting to happen, but not at a critical mass yet. When people see their new premiums and realize that they're having to pay anywhere between $100 and $300 more per month on insurance, that's when things will get real interesting.

I'm not talking about an abstract thing here. It's already happening, and every working person is going to feel this pinch. It's going to be a very real part of people's lives as they struggle to make ends meet. I know people myself who are facing tough decisions thanks to their new increases. I get to find out what it means for me in January. I'm told to expect a $125 per paycheck increase in premiums.

That will be $250 a month that I'm donating. $3,000 more a year out of my pocket. And I'm getting off easy. My buddy is paying More than double that because he's a small business owner who has no employer matching.

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Old 10-15-2013, 01:07 PM   #103
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That last line shows the real flaw here. Your desperation to lump people into homogenous think groups. "Are you wit 'em or agin' 'em?!?!"

I've said over and over again that default isn't a real option. I'm sure there are Tea Partiers who believe the same. And there are those who don't. I feel no need to wash my hands of some because of the actions of others.

Like I've said before. Democrats in the Senate caucus with a self-described Socialist. Does that taint embarrass you?

The reality is, it doesn't have to if you stick to the realm of ideas above teams.
Why should it, I'm neither a Democrat or a socialist.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:24 PM   #104
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How are they going to feel when the ACA starts impacting their paychecks by hundreds of dollars every two weeks?

That's already starting to happen, but not at a critical mass yet. When people see their new premiums and realize that they're having to pay anywhere between $100 and $300 more per month on insurance, that's when things will get real interesting.

I'm not talking about an abstract thing here. It's already happening, and every working person is going to feel this pinch. It's going to be a very real part of people's lives as they struggle to make ends meet. I know people myself who are facing tough decisions thanks to their new increases. I get to find out what it means for me in January. I'm told to expect a $125 per paycheck increase in premiums.

That will be $250 a month that I'm donating. $3,000 more a year out of my pocket. And I'm getting off easy. My buddy is paying More than double that because he's a small business owner who has no employer matching.
Hell, we have employer matching and we're paying $800 bucks a month for insurance which, due to the rising deductible and copays is basically unusable. We're paying a government mandated fee to the insurance company for nothing, afaic. I'm not going to defend Obamacare. I've never seen that as a solution. It just gives more money to a health insurance industry which shouldn't even exist. Obamacare is the same as the "solutions" from the Right which always start at the ideological base point that the free market is ALWAYS the solution. In other words, the Right believes in the hammer. Ergo, every problem is a nail.

The reality is that health care is a necessity of human life. It will never fit into the profit matrix. We keep pounding that square peg into that round hole and I just have to wonder when we'll get smart enough to give up.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:30 PM   #105
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Hell, we have employer matching and we're paying $800 bucks a month for insurance which, due to the rising deductible and copays is basically unusable. We're paying a government mandated fee to the insurance company for nothing, afaic. I'm not going to defend Obamacare. I've never seen that as a solution. It just gives more money to a health insurance industry which shouldn't even exist. Obamacare is the same as the "solutions" from the Right which always start at the ideological base point that the free market is ALWAYS the solution. In other words, the Right believes in the hammer. Ergo, every problem is a nail.

The reality is that health care is a necessity of human life. It will never fit into the profit matrix. We keep pounding that square peg into that round hole and I just have to wonder when we'll get smart enough to give up.

I hate to break it to you man, it's going to get worse for you. You have employer matching, and you pay $800. You can expect that to raise by almost $200 a month. I'd like to know what it comes out to. I haven't met a single working person who hasn't been raised by at least $150/month. Have you even considered how that's going to impact you?

I'm personally looking at what the cost comes out to if I were to drop health insruance altogether, pay the penalty, and go through a concierge doctor and then just sign up for insurance if it's needed. I'm hoping I can shave a couple hundred dollars a month that way.

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Old 10-15-2013, 02:55 PM   #106
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I hate to break it to you man, it's going to get worse for you. You have employer matching, and you pay $800. You can expect that to raise by almost $200 a month. I'd like to know what it comes out to. I haven't met a single working person who hasn't been raised by at least $150/month. Have you even considered how that's going to impact you?

I'm personally looking at what the cost comes out to if I were to drop health insruance altogether, pay the penalty, and go through a concierge doctor and then just sign up for insurance if it's needed. I'm hoping I can shave a couple hundred dollars a month that way.
It's gotten worse every year, by 20% or so, for years. This might be the year we do the same thing, cancel and pay the penalty.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:57 PM   #107
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It's gotten worse every year, by 20% or so, for years. This might be the year we do the same thing, cancel and pay the penalty.
Doesn't it bother you that you're paying a fine to not have a product that you can't afford? Does that sound American to you?

I mean, here you are in these threads telling people like me what bad people we are, and the only difference in our personal situations is apparently you're ok with paying a fine for not being able to afford something next year that you could afford last year, and I'm rankled by it.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:12 PM   #108
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For individual coverage for myself (health, vision, dental) I pay ~ $100 in premiums a month for coverage. I match that contribution monthly to my HSA. Basically, the HSA helps me pay for my medications that insurance won't cover (based on the research I did) until I meet my deductible, which I believe is $2,000.

I do have my kidney issues, but it's pretty crazy that I essentially have to pay out of pocket $2,000 before I even get any benefits from insurance I am already paying $100 to have per month. I'm pretty lucky (considering other figures here) but it is pretty bogus that my payroll deductions and employer contributions to my HSA are what keeps me going.

$1,200 a year just to have insurance, and another $2,000 out of pocket before they start to cover a majority of costs. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. At least my HSA contributions/match can buy me my medicine that keeps me living. Jaysus.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:43 PM   #109
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Doesn't it bother you that you're paying a fine to not have a product that you can't afford? Does that sound American to you?

I mean, here you are in these threads telling people like me what bad people we are, and the only difference in our personal situations is apparently you're ok with paying a fine for not being able to afford something next year that you could afford last year, and I'm rankled by it.
When did I tell you I thought you were a bad person? Hey! I likes you, TJ.

We just disagree.

As far as your question goes, I'm right there with you. It's unamerican, it's a ripoff and the American people have to end this bull****. I think the best solution is single-payer, universal coverage.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:45 PM   #110
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For individual coverage for myself (health, vision, dental) I pay ~ $100 in premiums a month for coverage. I match that contribution monthly to my HSA. Basically, the HSA helps me pay for my medications that insurance won't cover (based on the research I did) until I meet my deductible, which I believe is $2,000.

I do have my kidney issues, but it's pretty crazy that I essentially have to pay out of pocket $2,000 before I even get any benefits from insurance I am already paying $100 to have per month. I'm pretty lucky (considering other figures here) but it is pretty bogus that my payroll deductions and employer contributions to my HSA are what keeps me going.

$1,200 a year just to have insurance, and another $2,000 out of pocket before they start to cover a majority of costs. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. At least my HSA contributions/match can buy me my medicine that keeps me living. Jaysus.
What kidney condition do you have babycakes? I started urinating blood last Easter and was diagnosed with Polycystic Kidney Disease. I've been meaning to talk to you about this. Shoot me a PM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:47 PM   #111
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Why should it, I'm neither a Democrat or a socialist.
So why exactly do you ask me to either defend or denounce the TP?
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:02 PM   #112
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So why exactly do you ask me to either defend or denounce the TP?
Can't do either? Really?
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:17 PM   #113
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What kidney condition do you have babycakes? I started urinating blood last Easter and was diagnosed with Polycystic Kidney Disease. I've been meaning to talk to you about this. Shoot me a PM.
PM sent bro. Look forward to chatting with you.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:24 PM   #114
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House leaders drop the ball on budget deal because Heritage Foundation threatens to give them a "bad score."

"It was hard for them to get the votes anyway, and then when Heritage came out, that killed it," said Rep. Pete King (R-N.Y.), who has opposed the House GOP strategy of trying to using government funding and the debt ceiling as leverage to defund Obamacare.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4103021.html

One tiny little cabal of fanatics is forcing the whole world to twist in the wind. What a joke.

"Unbelievable hubris -- House Rs are fretting over a Heritage score while we are 29 hours away from default," emailed one Democratic aide who requested anonymity because he works closely with Republicans.

"Who's calling the shots here? Ted Cruz? Heritage Action?" said Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) "Who knows, but it sure isn't John Boehner. They had a plan and they withdrew the plan right after Heritage Action denounced the plan."

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Old 10-15-2013, 08:29 PM   #115
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King, representing a suburban district outside of New York City, was especially angry at the damaging showdown.

"This party is going nuts," King said. "So many people I run into who are normal people -- and I hate to use that term -- they just can't understand what's going on.

"On this one, they can't even see both sides," King said. "They just think Republicans are crazy. That's it. They see no justification for any of this."


Ain't that the truth?
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:34 PM   #116
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Anyone gonna give me odds on a debt ceiling deal?

Or do you just like twisting your own panties.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:36 PM   #117
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:42 PM   #118
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Anyone gonna give me odds on a debt ceiling deal?

Or do you just like twisting your own panties.
Your party has its head so firmly up its ass it's become a worldwide joke. And all you Right Wing clowns on here can come up with is to pretend that it's not happening. Bunch of whining toddlers.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:09 PM   #119
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Your party has its head so firmly up its ass it's become a worldwide joke. And all you Right Wing clowns on here can come up with is to pretend that it's not happening. Bunch of whining toddlers.
So I take that as a no. You wouldn't bet against the one year delay I've said would happen ever since this thing began.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:55 PM   #120
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:22 PM   #121
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As far as your question goes, I'm right there with you. It's unamerican, it's a ripoff and the American people have to end this bull****. I think the best solution is single-payer, universal coverage.
It's not.

The only sustainable and most efficient solution is individuals who have power over their own money to make healthcare spending decisions.

For those who can't afford it, a 'safety net', where taxpayer liability is limited.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:23 PM   #122
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When did I tell you I thought you were a bad person? Hey! I likes you, TJ.

We just disagree.

As far as your question goes, I'm right there with you. It's unamerican, it's a ripoff and the American people have to end this bull****. I think the best solution is single-payer, universal coverage.
Well I like you too..

But I've got bad news for you. Single payer isn't ever going to happen in this nation, and the reason is that nobody was willing to fight for it using the same tooth and nail tenacity that Ted Cruz was willing to. Nobody was willing to become controversial. Nobody was willing to stick their neck out for it. Nobody was willing to rally the base for it.

Obamacare is going to go supernova. The technological problems with it are going to take more than 90 days to untangle. The system they're trying to establish is like getting Legos to work with Kinects to work with Duplo blocks to work with cinder blocks to work with a video game. And that's without mentioning the security problems which nobody has even scratched the surface on yet. The truth is that the security for this kind of distributed computing is still very much in its infancy. I could go on about this, but it would be pointless...

The point, however is that while the technological problems are untenable in themselves, the economic matter is still an open issue, and when that hits, the thing is done.

When that happens, what Democrat is going to be able to run on their idea for healthcare? Who is going to be able to fight for single payer? Does Hillary Clinton have credibility to make another run on Healthcare? Who is going to be the single payer champion?

The Democrats are already behind on this issue. They're going to be playing defense in an election year against a "Reform and Replace" message. That defense is going to be centered around "making Obamacare work." Their solution will be to entrench around Obamacare and run on the idea that it would work if only more Democrats were elected who could help fix it. They're going to be running on fixing a broken system.

I wish them luck. It will be an interesting race. But if you're holding out hope for single payer, I hate to break it to you, but there's no political wind there. Democrats aren't like the Republicans where there is a dissent faction willing to challenge the establishment even if it means risking power and taking hits in the opinion polls doing what they think is the right thing. They're a party that finds safety in numbers, and won't tolerate dissent in the ranks.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:23 PM   #123
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Your party has its head so firmly up its ass it's become a worldwide joke. And all you Right Wing clowns on here can come up with is to pretend that it's not happening. Bunch of whining toddlers.
You wish. Do you believe everything you hear from the state-run media?

I think you do.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:30 PM   #124
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I wish them luck. It will be an interesting race. But if you're holding out hope for single payer, I hate to break it to you, but there's no political wind there. Democrats aren't like the Republicans where there is a dissent faction willing to challenge the establishment even if it means risking power and taking hits in the opinion polls doing what they think is the right thing. They're a party that finds safety in numbers, and won't tolerate dissent in the ranks.
You will be surprised how fast these Socialists will drop Obamacare after he is out of office. They know they can control low-information voters with media, and will just switch their message to promote single-payer once Obamacare drives costs even higher.

After all, what's better than 'free' insurance premiums and expanded Medicaid? You got it... 'free' healthcare.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:17 AM   #125
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You wish. Do you believe everything you hear from the state-run media?

I think you do.
Your team dropped back to punt the ball and fumbled. They can't even get that right.
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