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Old 10-08-2013, 07:33 PM   #26
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I never said anything about von miller lol

and 750+ million dollars says I'm right on this one. and most legal people and doctors believe the NFL got off extremely light.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:41 PM   #27
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I am watching it now, it is really good and very brutal with the facts. I recommend that everyone watch it with open mind and draw your own conclusion on the facts they present.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:55 PM   #28
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I am watching it now, it is really good and very brutal with the facts. I recommend that everyone watch it with open mind and draw your own conclusion on the facts they present.
This.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:03 PM   #29
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really? Why not investigate the federal government and how *****ed up that is instead? Frontline, going full retard.
You haven't watched much Frontline, have you?
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:04 PM   #30
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Nfl admitted negligence by settling. It's a done issue. Wipe the hands, be better moving forward. Third guys are trying to retain 20 seconds of fame.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:09 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
I am watching it now, it is really good and very brutal with the facts. I recommend that everyone watch it with open mind and draw your own conclusion on the facts they present.
What a concept! If only America and the intErnEts worked like that!
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #32
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I don't give a damn about the players and their health problems. 99% of them were given free college educations, nice jobs by boosters, nice cars by boosters, fantastic salaries in the NFL.

Nobody forced them to play, they can walk away anytime. If a player thinks he shouldn't play, he should say "I'm sitting out", or find another profession.

Everybody on the entire planet has known for 1000 years that repeated blows to the head are not good for a person. Each NFL player is personally responsible for his brain condition, not the team's, not the League. Same goes for every other part of his anatomy.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:13 PM   #33
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Well at the end of the day, its ridiculious to blame the NFL for this but they are the only ones that have money, so they are an easy target. The class action suit has been settled. The NFLPA can no longer blame the NFL for this and the players are on their own.


Of course one has to wonder why the NFLPA doesn't do anything for it's former players and is now crying foul.

The good news is people that need help will hopefully get help, however they created the situation they are in....not other people.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:38 PM   #34
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I never said anything about von miller lol

and 750+ million dollars says I'm right on this one. and most legal people and doctors believe the NFL got off extremely light.
A ****ing settlement agreement doesn't say **** about you being "right" on this moron. It is a ****ing settlement not a judgement and has absolutely no bearing on what the end result of the case would have been. The vast majority of settlements happen not because one side holds the upper hand, but because it makes sense to do settle. It is often not because of the liability faced at the end of the trial, but for various and often unrelated reasons. I also guarantee the agreement has language where the NFL admits absolutely no fault.

Also, the tobacco settlements were a joke as well. Like anyone didn't know that inhaling smoke into their lungs might be bad for you? We live in a world with almost no self responsibility anymore and it is sad.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:40 PM   #35
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Nfl admitted negligence by settling. It's a done issue. Wipe the hands, be better moving forward. Third guys are trying to retain 20 seconds of fame.

Ahhh so frustrating. When you settle a case, you don't admit anything.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:15 PM   #36
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You guys are being pig headed, perhaps to justify your fandom. Extralife is specifically referring to league's looking the other way re concussions for decades and possibly even covering up medical evidence. You know like big tobacco published medical reports exhorting risk free cigarettes?

Typical big corporation run amok. Typical denizens with their heads in the sand.

I do wonder about the player's union. Shouldn't they have been more involved?

Last edited by TD4HOF; 10-09-2013 at 03:17 PM..
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:34 PM   #37
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Ahhh so frustrating. When you settle a case, you don't admit anything.
Understood but they are assumed guilty of something hence why they pay.
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:29 PM   #38
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You guys are being pig headed, perhaps to justify your fandom. Extralife is specifically referring to league's looking the other way re concussions for decades and possibly even covering up medical evidence. You know like big tobacco published medical reports exhorting risk free cigarettes?

Typical big corporation run amok. Typical denizens with their heads in the sand.

I do wonder about the player's union. Shouldn't they have been more involved?
don't you get it? covering up medical evidence is the player's fault! after all, [insert something ****ing retarded]!
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:51 PM   #39
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the NFL, like nearly every company, tries to maximize profitability while minimizing risk.....thus, if there are no "rules/codes" about whether a player with an injury should go back in, the coach/owner has (in the past) encouraged them to play - even though injured.

"Concussions" and how they are dealt with is a lot different now than it was even two or three years ago - and I think that's a great thing. Anybody who has had a concussion or a brain swelling situation knows that the danger in not treating, or ignoring this problem can affect you in the short or long term future.

Remember in the old days (40 yrs ago) when Muhammed Ali and Joe Frazier and George Foreman and Ken Norton fought on national TV? Did anybody worry about KOs or TKOs back then? Nope - the excuse was "well, nobody died...so....whatever". But have you seen old boxers try to function? The exception to the rule might be Foreman - who likely dished out more blows than he took - or may just be "hard headed"(!?)

These days, with NFL (being forced to) ramping up awareness on concussions, I'm surprised MMA "gets away" with the choking and knockouts

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Old 10-09-2013, 04:53 PM   #40
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It sounds like an interesting thing to watch. might be worth actually watching and seeing what it says before saying it's complete rubish and all NFL players are whiny crybabies.

Besides I was thinking that before unions and things like OSHA Americans worked in some pretty ****ty conditions that monopolistic owners pressed to their advanatage. NFL is the only game in town and they are certainly going to present their behavior in the best way possible. It is just possible the NFL has done some ****ty irresponsible things in the name of making a profit. Yes NFL players are adults who can make decisions, but that doesn't mean the NFL culture doesn't have some and I say SOME not all culpability. At any rate worth watching the program just to see what it says before saying it's crap. It might very well be, but it sounds intersting.

As for the ESPN vs Frontline, seems to me PBS would be better then ESpin. A sports tv channel is not exactly a scientific brain trust nor anywhere near unvested in the topic. they make lots of money off the NFL too.

Last edited by Miss I.; 10-09-2013 at 04:56 PM..
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:01 PM   #41
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Since it doesn't appear like many folks watched. Here is the link:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/


I really do think folks should watch it. It strongly looks like NFL went out of its way to discourage the idea that concession were critical health risk. Especial at the youth and high school level.

All I will say is that if I had a boy, I would most likely steer him to another competitive sport over football.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:48 PM   #42
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Since it doesn't appear like many folks watched. Here is the link:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/


I really do think folks should watch it. It strongly looks like NFL went out of its way to discourage the idea that concession were critical health risk. Especial at the youth and high school level.

All I will say is that if I had a boy, I would most likely steer him to another competitive sport over football.
I saw it, I record Frontline every week, easily one of my favorite shows on TV.

The 1st part covered the Mike Webster saga, I remember reading about his struggles back when the expose' came out back in 2003ish. It was a good article then and the Frontline episode was just as good, there was no real new info there other than in the disability finding for him the NFL admitted that playing the game could lead to brain injury. The NFL tried to deny Webster's disability claim (like 99% of most businesses would do) but even their own doctor admitted that his injuries were caused by his playing the in the league and he won his case. Too bad for him he died a little while later.

The issue with the players who filed is that they said the NFL promoted the physical play and made money off it while denying, after the Webster case that brain damage could result.

I think all of this could have been avoided with a well written waiver that admitted that playing in the NFL can lead to trauma that causes brain damage. Play and get paid at your own risk type of thing but it sounds like the NFL as a private corp didn't want to publicize that their game was potentially lethal even though anyone who has ever played the game knows there is inherent risk.

The second hour talked about the case of a young guy who never presented a Dr or was diagnosed with concussion type symptoms and yet after he died young they found his brain severely damaged as well. The Dr's believe even minor hits lead to the brain bouncing around in the skull and damaging it.

I personally feel that with all the "armor" the players wear they feel they are invinceable and use their "protection' as a weapon, consciously or not.

I like the argument of going back to leather helmets and smaller shoulder pads to get players to become less likely to launch or lead with their heads. No amount of external padding is going to prevent your brain from slamming against your skull when your body, which is moving one way, comes to a sudden stop or alters course.

Moving kickoffs back hasn't done all that much in my eyes, it is still exciting to watch and teams like us who have dynamic returners are still going to return the ball no matter how deep they are. To remove the play from the game would change the tenor of the games.

The majority of NFL players are in the game for such a short time yet they all seem to leave the game with some sort of major injury. If the NFL and NFLPA really wants to keep the game from being outlawed they need to reach players in HS and College, get them to take college courses that prepare them for a life after football, educate them to the dangers of certain styles of play. They cannot change the guys in college or the NFL now but they can make changes for the kids entering the sport at early ages.

Knowledge is power. The majority of the players who come into the league leave it at the income level they started at. If football should give them anything it should be a diploma that prepares them for life after football.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:51 PM   #43
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Well at the end of the day, its ridiculious to blame the NFL for this but they are the only ones that have money, so they are an easy target. The class action suit has been settled. The NFLPA can no longer blame the NFL for this and the players are on their own.


Of course one has to wonder why the NFLPA doesn't do anything for it's former players and is now crying foul.

The good news is people that need help will hopefully get help, however they created the situation they are in....not other people.
I kind of agree with the argument that the current players (today's NFLPA) doesn't necessarily bear the burden of yesteryear's players' retirement/care. They negotiated their part of the deal however many years ago and that should be that. Plenty of dangerous jobs don't come with a retirement plan and you accept that going in.

All that said, I'm amazed the NFLPA doesn't do something to help the issue now. The players that make up that very union are the ones trying to hurt each other and causing many of these issues. How many times have we seen just this year where one guy is tackling someone and just as/before they hit the ground, his teammate comes in to blow up the player and instead nails his own teammate. Or the guy in Pitt trying to take out an opponent's knee and hits his own guy, destroying his knee. All these things are stupid, dangerous plays that are unnecessarily risky and the players (the members of the NFLPA) could make the game a lot safer without anyone's intervention. Instead, they all wanna try to hurt each other then cry when they get hurt.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:56 PM   #44
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Mike Florio, himself a Lawyer, has a very powerful rebuttal to the PBS special.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...n-concussions/


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The NFLPA is the NFL Players Association. It’s the union that represents all players. It is, legally and in many practical ways, the players.

The NFLPA had three members on the six-person disability board that granted Webster benefits for brain damage in response to his 1999 claim. It was, despite being consistently characterized as the league’s disability board, an even split of responsibility between the NFL and the NFLPA.

So if the decision in the Webster case to link brain damage to football put the league on notice of the dangers of head trauma, the NFLPA was on notice of it, too.

This same dynamic applies to the rightfully-maligned Mild Traumatic Brain Injury Committee. Their work was shoddy, and their efforts at times were laughable. For too many years and in too many people, the human instinct of self-preservation overcame the human aspiration to do the right thing.

But the documentary never mentions that the NFLPA had a direct role in the Mild Traumatic Brain Injury Committee. How is that not worth at least a fleeting mention in a two-hour, no-commercials program?
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:20 AM   #45
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it's not a rebuttal at all, it's a notice that the NFLPA is either incompetent or complicit, which is not new news.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:44 AM   #46
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it's not a rebuttal at all, it's a notice that the NFLPA is either incompetent or complicit, which is not new news.
Except that it is, because the NFLPA represents the players and its leadership was made up of players. So basically the players went along with it.
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:20 AM   #47
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This isn't about players taking risks, getting paid to take risks etc.

This is simply about whether the NFL knew/suspected that playing football may/can/does cause or contribute to long term brain trauma and disease like CTE and if they did know, what was done to safe guard player safety.

We all should know the answer to the 2nd question. Nothing was done save two years ago when the NFL under direct scrutiny of the medical experts and Congress started finally implementing stricter concussion protocols.

Up to only a few years ago the NFL, yes the NFL gave out pamphlets to players saying that football doesn't cause long term brain damage/trauma if proper procedures are followed. A few years before it was a flat out no league wide. But yet you've got the NFL settling the Mike Webster case saying that playing football had lead to his disability. And now implementing real concussion procedures and protocols. Then most recently Goodell saying before congress "I don't know, our medical experts/investigation is working on it."

If Goodell and the NFL can't directly answer whether or not playing football leads or contributes towards long term brain damage/trauma now in front of Congress why the **** where they flat out saying NO to the world, media, scientific community through published paper and it's own players/employees as recently as a few years ago?

Everything else is just useless personal opinion boiling down to blah blah blah players get paid so it doesn't matter if their brain turns to jelly blah blah blah.

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Old 10-10-2013, 04:49 AM   #48
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Just adding this web story here because it kinda fits the topic

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/futu...ussion-testing

Concussions have become a hot topic in sports today, especially with football. These brain injuries cause serious short-term and long-term damage, so teams and leagues are taking safety precautions to prevent concussions and be more informed about this issue. An interesting fact is that after a player suffers his first concussion, he's 1-2 times more likely to receive a second one. On his second concussion, he's 2-3 times more likely to suffer a third. And after a third concussion, a player is 3-9 times more likely to sustain a fourth.


So how does an athlete or training staff know when a player has a concussion? Usually when players take a big hit to the head and are wobbly, a team of trainers will put them through a series of tests to determine whether there is a concussion.
But most of the time, athletes say they are fine. They don't feel the effects right away so they continue to play, which risks injury to the brain even further. To address this problem, Reebok developed a skullcap that has a unique sensor to determine the amount of impact on a player's head. Named the "Checklight," this smart cap uses a light system that indicates the severity of the hit.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:14 AM   #49
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Well at the end of the day, its ridiculious to blame the NFL for this but they are the only ones that have money, so they are an easy target. The class action suit has been settled. The NFLPA can no longer blame the NFL for this and the players are on their own.


Of course one has to wonder why the NFLPA doesn't do anything for it's former players and is now crying foul.

The good news is people that need help will hopefully get help, however they created the situation they are in....not other people.
Yes, exactly! How dare those stupid 9/10 year old kids not realise that when their coaches tell them to block, tackle, and hit, they should instead be making better and more mature decisions that will benefit their long term mental health.

Don't these kids/teenagers realise it's their own damn fault?
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:47 AM   #50
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This is a bit old, but any time someone takes the opportunity to destroy Pete Prisco is a good time:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3859288.html
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