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Old 10-08-2013, 11:18 PM   #1
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:22 AM   #2
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Thanks and great podcast guys.

Though I have to wonder what game was Mike (Socal)? watching when he talks about no pressure?

For the entirety of the 2nd half we were without our best pass rusher (Ayers), our best blizing LBer in Woodyard, and Harris.

What kind of pressure were you expecting from Adrian Robinson playing at RDE?

In the first half when we had those guys healthy, we were sacking Romo and forced him out of the pocket numerous times.
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:27 AM   #3
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Thanks again for doing this, fellas. I'll be giving this a listen this afternoon.
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:38 AM   #4
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Persnickety!
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:57 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
Not to mention plays where we get hands on Romo THREE TIMES but he escapes and hits a 30+ yard pass to move the chains.
Just think if Von Miller chases Romo down just twice. 2 sacks that force two punts and gives the ball back to Manning. You're looking at 10-14 more points minimum.

Would have been great to watch Miller on that carpet chase down Romo.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:09 AM   #6
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Not to mention plays where we get hands on Romo THREE TIMES but he escapes and hits a 30+ yard pass to move the chains.
Yeah, we're not going to feature that 2nd half defense again this season that gave up 28 point in one half consisting of Irving at Mike, Robinson at DE, Bolden at slot and Carter on one side with zone coverage concepts with players that just aren't used to.

Week 7 against Indy is going to be the true test of this defense because we'll have all our guys back (barring any further unexpected setbacks) against a strong run oriented OL with Richardson/Brown featuring an elite QB that can really spread that ball around.

Last edited by fontaine; 10-09-2013 at 06:13 AM..
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:20 AM   #7
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I just turned it on and the first thing I hear is Archer81 and Kaylore talking about chaps. craziness. But I am excited to hear the rest now. Thanks for a great gift on my travel day.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:51 AM   #8
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I like how at the beginning it sounds like Taco is on microphone in a super market.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:00 AM   #9
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I like how at the beginning it sounds like Taco is on microphone in a super market.
He's not? I always thought he was an illegal working as a grocery bagger....
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:16 AM   #10
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Good podcast, per the usual.


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Old 10-09-2013, 09:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
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I put together some screen shots of the Cowboys biggest plays so we can take a closer look at what went wrong (sorry for the quality, couldn't find any HD replay through NFL ticket immediately this morning):

Early TD:

^ big fast pressure, Romo off backfoot throws after 4 seconds (the first 2 developing play action) for a score
.
Sorry that was not pressure on that play. Romo had a full 4 seconds to throw and the Broncos sent 6. Bryant had enough time to run from one side of the field to the other and Romo was able to throw a good touch pass. I'm 5 pass plays in on the rewatch and there has yet to be any pressure on Romo and he has had a minimum of 4 seconds when he didn't throw in timing at the back of his drop.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
Thanks and great podcast guys.

Though I have to wonder what game was Mike (Socal)? watching when he talks about no pressure?
.
Socal is seeing what a lot of people are seeing. I went ahead and watched the first half and noted down Romo's time. He had 22 passes and only 6 pressures. Out of those 6 pressures only 1 was under 3 seconds(Jackson sack) and the other 2 sacks were 5 seconds or longer. Here is what I wrote down.

Romo's 1st pass-6 seconds in the pocket, no pressure big 25 yard gain.

2. 3 seconds hits first read for 14.

3. 4 seconds 10 yard gain.

4. 3 seconds and out for 10.

5. The Dez Bryant TD Romo had plenty of time to sit back and wait for 4 seconds while Bryant ran accross the field. He threw a nice touch pass to Dez. Broncos blitzed 6 on the play and they all got stoned.

6. First pressure of the game on a PA bootleg by Vickerson. Romo took off running forward and Escobar dropped a shuffle pass.

7. 3 seconds in the pocket and Phillips made a lunging attempt which Romo side stepped and sat for 2 more seconds before tossing incomplete pass which was really dropped.

8. Second pressure of the game by Wolfe. He gets pressure here(even though held like crazy) and Romo scrambles around breaks 2 tackles makes a pass to Witten.

9. 4 seconds screen set up for short gain.

10. Denver Blitzed which doesn't get there Romo steps up and fires a big gain to Witten after 4 seconds.

11. 4 seconds, no pressure Dez for 20.

12. 4 seconds, no pressure Escobar for 20.

13. Ayers sack which is 3rd pressure of the game.

14. Pot roast breaks free which Romo has no problem escaping and proceeds to hold the ball for 6 seconds while Witten gets open for 10.

15. 5 seconds standing in the pocket and Dez can't make the great one handed catch on the bullet.

16. 5 seconds no pressure Duke with the good coverage on incomplete pass to Witten at the goalline.

17. 5 seconds Romo holds on to the ball before back tracking and being sacked for 17 yd loss at 8 seconds.

18. Romo hits Dez for 12 at the back of his drop.

19. Malik sack best defensive line play yet.

20. 4 seconds Romo runs for short gain. Good Coverage down the field.

21. 3 seconds Romo slides left 10 yard gain.

22. This play was a joke. A little bit of pressure but nothing that Romo doesn't slide around. Stands there for 9 F$%KING seconds before throwing long pass to Williams to give the pokes 3 pts.

Romo had 5 plus seconds to throw on almost all his throws which is not good in the NFL for the defenses. He has great escape ability but he only uses it when he needs to and isn't afraid to sit in the pocket. Hopefully adding Von fixes this problem which I think it can to an extent.

Last edited by DENVERDUI55; 10-09-2013 at 09:57 AM..
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:54 AM   #13
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Good podcast, per the usual.


This.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:11 AM   #14
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WooHoo! Got my first mention on the podcast!

Well done as always, gentlemen -- thanks for the labor of love, it's greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:13 AM   #15
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....It's a good word! Persnickety!

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Old 10-09-2013, 10:19 AM   #16
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Great job! Always a pleasure to listen!
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:33 AM   #17
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^ Huge pass to Dez, 2 seconds in, pocket already collapsing. Throw is out at 3 secs--ridiculously fast for a 7 step drop

.
Sorry Bro but 2 seconds in pocket may have been collapsing but those 2 guys Wolfe and Malik were pushed to the side giving Romo a clear path. Romo had a full 4 seconds and was able to step up into the throw. It was a 5 step drop too BTW.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:05 PM   #18
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Good podcast. I want to believe TheRevs assertion regarding the pass rush. I really do, but there were some epic long pocket times in there. Somebody should go back and just look at the third downs to see if there was a statistical difference in the time Romo had vs the rest of the pass plays.

Pro tip 1: Don't chew ice with mouth next to microphone.
Pro tip 2: Don't put phone on speaker on a multi line conference call.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:11 PM   #19
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I got time to watch the second half again and the pass rush/pressure was nonexistent. Denver didn't blitz a lot and the cowboys were able to keep a clean pocket without keeping a TE in very often. Romo is a hell of a QB when he was hot and Dez is probably the best WR in the game right now. It has been mentioned before that the inconsistent pass rush would show up against a legit QB and it did in the amount of 500 yards and 5 TDs.

2nd half throws

1- Long TD to Williams Romo took full drop took 2 steps up and fired the ball. He had 5 seconds in the pocket.

2-Romo allowed to reach back of drop and one step forward.

3 and 4- Clean pocket on both throws and pass rush nonexistent.

5- CB blitz works Romo and Beasley on same page completed hot route.

6 and 7- Clean pocket with 4 seconds to throw with no pressure.

8-Vickerson beat his man to pressure Romo. Romo doesn't see him but he didn't need to because the quick pass was a TD to Dez. 2pt conversion no pressure but the coverage was good and Romo tried to run for it.

9, 10, and 11- Clean pockets Romo was allowed to stand in for at least 4 seconds.

12-Romo had an enternity in the pocket and about 8 seconds. Webster was lucky he wasn't called for shoving Witten out of bounds.

13-Romo TD 8 seconds in the pocket.

14-Romo had 4 seconds in the pocket, no pressure but great coverage.

15 and 17-Passes were too quick for rush to to anything.

16-Romo had 5 seconds in the pocket.

17-Pressure up the middle and great coverage on the back end. Romo sacked by Phillips.

18-Up the middle pressure Romo couldn't step into the throw which wasn't that bad. Great play by Danny.

Last edited by DENVERDUI55; 10-09-2013 at 12:16 PM..
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:12 PM   #20
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Good podcast. I want to believe TheRevs assertion regarding the pass rush. I really do, but there were some epic long pocket times in there. Somebody should go back and just look at the third downs to see if there was a statistical difference in the time Romo had vs the rest of the pass plays.
They only faced 6 3rd downs the whole game, which is ridiculous. And they converted 4 of them.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:49 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55 View Post
Socal is seeing what a lot of people are seeing. I went ahead and watched the first half and noted down Romo's time. He had 22 passes and only 6 pressures. Out of those 6 pressures only 1 was under 3 seconds(Jackson sack) and the other 2 sacks were 5 seconds or longer. Here is what I wrote down.

Romo's 1st pass-6 seconds in the pocket, no pressure big 25 yard gain.

2. 3 seconds hits first read for 14.

3. 4 seconds 10 yard gain.

4. 3 seconds and out for 10.

5. The Dez Bryant TD Romo had plenty of time to sit back and wait for 4 seconds while Bryant ran accross the field. He threw a nice touch pass to Dez. Broncos blitzed 6 on the play and they all got stoned.

6. First pressure of the game on a PA bootleg by Vickerson. Romo took off running forward and Escobar dropped a shuffle pass.

7. 3 seconds in the pocket and Phillips made a lunging attempt which Romo side stepped and sat for 2 more seconds before tossing incomplete pass which was really dropped.

8. Second pressure of the game by Wolfe. He gets pressure here(even though held like crazy) and Romo scrambles around breaks 2 tackles makes a pass to Witten.

9. 4 seconds screen set up for short gain.

10. Denver Blitzed which doesn't get there Romo steps up and fires a big gain to Witten after 4 seconds.

11. 4 seconds, no pressure Dez for 20.

12. 4 seconds, no pressure Escobar for 20.

13. Ayers sack which is 3rd pressure of the game.

14. Pot roast breaks free which Romo has no problem escaping and proceeds to hold the ball for 6 seconds while Witten gets open for 10.

15. 5 seconds standing in the pocket and Dez can't make the great one handed catch on the bullet.

16. 5 seconds no pressure Duke with the good coverage on incomplete pass to Witten at the goalline.

17. 5 seconds Romo holds on to the ball before back tracking and being sacked for 17 yd loss at 8 seconds.

18. Romo hits Dez for 12 at the back of his drop.

19. Malik sack best defensive line play yet.

20. 4 seconds Romo runs for short gain. Good Coverage down the field.

21. 3 seconds Romo slides left 10 yard gain.

22. This play was a joke. A little bit of pressure but nothing that Romo doesn't slide around. Stands there for 9 F$%KING seconds before throwing long pass to Williams to give the pokes 3 pts.

Romo had 5 plus seconds to throw on almost all his throws which is not good in the NFL for the defenses. He has great escape ability but he only uses it when he needs to and isn't afraid to sit in the pocket. Hopefully adding Von fixes this problem which I think it can to an extent.
Do you realise that a lot of Romo's first half "time" that you've put up there is based on 1st/2nd down throws where he's either rolling out, or working off play action that's designed to slow the pass rush when we had Vickerson/Knighton inside? Or when we went with 3 DL and not extra rushers?

Let's try this again with context shall we for just one drive (Dallas' 2nd Drive of the day you listed above).

Quote:
6. First pressure of the game on a PA bootleg by Vickerson. Romo took off running forward and Escobar dropped a shuffle pass.
--> That's right off a play action bootleg with our run base DL on first down, but we still managed to get pressure because Vickerson broke free of his guy.

Quote:
7. 3 seconds in the pocket and Phillips made a lunging attempt which Romo side stepped and sat for 2 more seconds before tossing incomplete pass which was really dropped.
--> Shotgun formation with empty backfield so clear pass rush play and Phillips did get pressure from a stunt inside.

Quote:
8. Second pressure of the game by Wolfe. He gets pressure here(even though held like crazy) and Romo scrambles around breaks 2 tackles makes a pass to Witten.
--> 3rd and 10 so a clear pass rush opportunity with a spread formation and lone back offset with Romo in shotgun. Again we got pressure in a clear pass play look even though Wolfe was held.

Quote:
9. 4 seconds screen set up for short gain.
--> 1st and 10 with Vickerson/Unrein inside and Romo setup a screen off play action - so how is this a pass rush opportunity?

Quote:
10. Denver Blitzed which doesn't get there Romo steps up and fires a big gain to Witten after 4 seconds.
--> 3rd and 8, Romo in shotgun look with spread formation and empty backfield. Clearly a pass rush opportunity but we went we a 3 DL look and Harris blitzed off the slot. So again how would you expect pass rush from the DL when the defensive play was to flood the secondary, go 3 DL and blitz off the slot?

Dallas then scored a TD on the ground.

We had three pass rush opportunities on that one drive. We got pressure on two of those plays from the DL and in another we went with 3 DL and tried to blitz off the slot CB.


See how that looks with context on down and distance, formation and look?

What you're basically doing wrong is looking at the play after the fact. In other words, 1st and 10, with our base run stopping DL, one or two RBs in the backfield, Romo works play action and ends up keeping and passing. How/why would you count that against our pass rush?

Last edited by fontaine; 10-09-2013 at 03:59 PM..
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Fan reaction:

QB completes pass - "We have no pressure!"
QB doesn't complete pass - "Our pressure caused that throw!"
I disagree with this

there were points in the game where Romo had 6-10 second to throw. Even on one of the sacks when the Cowboys were driving and deep in Denver territory, Romo had all day to throw. The pressure for most of the game, imo, was subpar for most of the afternoon.

edit for some clarity, I was more concerned with the edge rush than the interior. Our big DTs were able to create some pressure early on and flush Romo out, but the edge rushers for most of the game were swallowed up by the OTs.
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:59 PM   #23
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That happens sometimes. Expecting every single dropback to get quick pressure isn't realistic. It's going to happen.
totally agree. but it happened way too often in the Cowboy game and was the cause or the catalyst of so many defensive breakdowns, imo. There were breakdowns at every level in that game and the inability to stop a WR was another glaring one that could and should be remedied fairly easily so I'm not saying the entire 48 points was due solely to ineffective pass rush. But a good amount of it was.

I will try to rewatch the game at some point this week and post some specific examples.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:46 PM   #24
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When you play press coverage...you better have your Dline pushing the pocket in first 2 to 3 seconds...at least on the edge - See NY Giants SB teams.

Very nicely done podcast guys. The intro was a nice touch...hahaa!
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:09 PM   #25
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When you play press coverage...you better have your Dline pushing the pocket in first 2 to 3 seconds...at least on the edge - See NY Giants SB teams.

Very nicely done podcast guys. The intro was a nice touch...hahaa!

I did not expect TJ to include the prepodcast banter. But it was pretty awesome.

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