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Old 10-02-2013, 07:38 AM   #126
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Ok call it 9.5 times the law was changed then. geez....

I doubt it has been changed enough to succeed.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:20 AM   #127
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Sounds to me like Congress made the changes.

Such changes are common in Congress, according to our experts.

"Legislators aren't perfect," said Jost. "They don't get everything right the first time. That’s the nature of the legislative process."

It is also clear that Obama did not drive the majority of the changes.


(BTW, Disclaimer: I've always been opposed to the ACA and still am)
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:43 AM   #128
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"The administration acted on its own to delay the employer mandate, explaining that the systems were not in place to implement it." Why didn't this go through Congress like everything else?
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:15 AM   #129
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"The administration acted on its own to delay the employer mandate, explaining that the systems were not in place to implement it." Why didn't this go through Congress like everything else?
Yeah, really. What could go wrong?
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:04 AM   #130
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The problem here is, you can't use the CR's and Debt Ceiling as ways to push through, amend, or repeal legislation. What if the Senate demanded a repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act in or, or to pass the CR, or repeal the Civil Right Act, or repeal the Consumer Credit Protection Act (including Truth In Lending Act), or add universal background checks for weapons purchases. You can't deal this way because then the special interest take over and say we're going to blow everything up unless we get our way on said new, past, or provision of legislation. It's assinine.

You do not make deals with the hostage taker. That's the problem. If they have problems with the ACA then they need to do a better job of appealing to the people, win the Senate, and Presidency and make the changes then, not by holding the American public hostage. And if you let them do it now, then they'll do it again and again and again until all your left with is a broken government, economy, and anarchy.

Now you have Ted Cruz asking for itemized parts of the government to be funded, like they're releasing one hostage at a time. They're absolutely crazy. If you agree with this way of governing then you're also absolutely crazy. This is very dangerous politicking, and legislating, and needs to be nipped in the bud right here.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:42 AM   #131
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The problem here is, you can't use the CR's and Debt Ceiling as ways to push through, amend, or repeal legislation. What if the Senate demanded a repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act in or, or to pass the CR, or repeal the Civil Right Act, or repeal the Consumer Credit Protection Act (including Truth In Lending Act), or add universal background checks for weapons purchases. You can't deal this way because then the special interest take over and say we're going to blow everything up unless we get our way on said new, past, or provision of legislation. It's assinine.

You do not make deals with the hostage taker. That's the problem. If they have problems with the ACA then they need to do a better job of appealing to the people, win the Senate, and Presidency and make the changes then, not by holding the American public hostage. And if you let them do it now, then they'll do it again and again and again until all your left with is a broken government, economy, and anarchy.

Now you have Ted Cruz asking for itemized parts of the government to be funded, like they're releasing one hostage at a time. They're absolutely crazy. If you agree with this way of governing then you're also absolutely crazy. This is very dangerous politicking, and legislating, and needs to be nipped in the bud right here.

Well said.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:26 PM   #132
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The problem here is, you can't use the CR's and Debt Ceiling as ways to push through, amend, or repeal legislation. What if the Senate demanded a repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act in or, or to pass the CR, or repeal the Civil Right Act, or repeal the Consumer Credit Protection Act (including Truth In Lending Act), or add universal background checks for weapons purchases. You can't deal this way because then the special interest take over and say we're going to blow everything up unless we get our way on said new, past, or provision of legislation. It's assinine.

You do not make deals with the hostage taker. That's the problem. If they have problems with the ACA then they need to do a better job of appealing to the people, win the Senate, and Presidency and make the changes then, not by holding the American public hostage. And if you let them do it now, then they'll do it again and again and again until all your left with is a broken government, economy, and anarchy.

Now you have Ted Cruz asking for itemized parts of the government to be funded, like they're releasing one hostage at a time. They're absolutely crazy. If you agree with this way of governing then you're also absolutely crazy. This is very dangerous politicking, and legislating, and needs to be nipped in the bud right here.
Pretty much sums it up, and is why I'm ROTFLMAO when TJ and others say the democrats are the ones being "obstructionist" in this. Pretty clueless group there.

The Rs have been trying desperately to repeal the ACA. They can't because they don't have the votes in the senate and don't have the WH, and have lost three elections now running on a platform of repealing it.

So, now they are trying this tactic, which is just childish. Reps: you lost, sack up and do your jobs.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:18 PM   #133
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ChangescDenverBrit;3929262]Yeah, really. What could go wrong? [/QUOTE]

well apparently the other changes went through Congress without a problem.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:25 PM   #134
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well apparently the other changes went through Congress without a problem.
Sure they did, Congress has been a girlie slapping fight since they were elected.

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Old 10-02-2013, 02:18 PM   #135
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The problem here is, you can't use the CR's and Debt Ceiling as ways to push through, amend, or repeal legislation. What if the Senate demanded a repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act in or, or to pass the CR, or repeal the Civil Right Act, or repeal the Consumer Credit Protection Act (including Truth In Lending Act), or add universal background checks for weapons purchases. You can't deal this way because then the special interest take over and say we're going to blow everything up unless we get our way on said new, past, or provision of legislation. It's assinine.

You do not make deals with the hostage taker. That's the problem. If they have problems with the ACA then they need to do a better job of appealing to the people, win the Senate, and Presidency and make the changes then, not by holding the American public hostage. And if you let them do it now, then they'll do it again and again and again until all your left with is a broken government, economy, and anarchy.

Now you have Ted Cruz asking for itemized parts of the government to be funded, like they're releasing one hostage at a time. They're absolutely crazy. If you agree with this way of governing then you're also absolutely crazy. This is very dangerous politicking, and legislating, and needs to be nipped in the bud right here.
Bingo! Good post.

Obama has to hold his ground, not just because of the principle you outline here, but for the benefit of future presidents.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 10-02-2013 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:22 PM   #136
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The problem here is...
What you don't seem to understand is, the US Gov is running just fine without non-essential activities. Shut down non-essential activities anytime you want, for any reason you want. We don't need it. Then, in less than 2 years, we can remove all the Socialists from office. Problem solved.

That's what you get when you ram your Socialist fantasies down the throat of the American people.

Hold the line true American Patriots.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:30 PM   #137
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What you don't seem to understand is, the US Gov is running just fine without non-essential activities. Shut down non-essential activities anytime you want, for any reason you want. We don't need it. Then, in less than 2 years, we can remove all the Socialists from office. Problem solved.

That's what you get when you ram your Socialist fantasies down the throat of the American people.

Hold the line true American Patriots.
So all the veterans who won't get benefits are just unpatriotic a-holes who can go die?
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:44 PM   #138
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Hoo boy.

Why do I always need to be reminded to stick to the football forum.

Last edited by bombay; 10-02-2013 at 07:48 PM..
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:35 PM   #139
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So all the veterans who won't get benefits are just unpatriotic a-holes who can go die?
That's an outright lie. All the veterans are getting their benefits. Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment are also ALL not affected. The active military is getting paid as well.


The ONLY affected activities are NON-ESSENTIAL. Please get your facts straight.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:47 PM   #140
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Hoo boy.

Why do I always need to be reminded to stick to the football forum.
He does the same thing over there.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:59 PM   #141
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Oops
A series of leaked emails authored by House Speaker John Boehner’s chief of staff Mike Sommers show that the Speaker may have coordinated with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to exempt Congress from Obamacare.

The emails were leaked Tuesday by Reid chief of staff David Krone, who actually has a history of this sort of thi
The leaks, which are a major taboo in Washington, show Boehner (R-Ohio) worked behind the scenes earlier this year to address confusion over a provision in the Affordable Care Act that would force members of Congress and their aides into the exchanges. In fact, if one were to go by the leaks, which were first published by Politico, it appears that the offices of Boehner and Reid regularly coordinated to exempt Congress from the health care law.

But given that Boehner is now apparently against congressional Obamacare exemptions, the emails make him look inconsistent and hypocritical – which may have been the point of their leaking.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...in-washington/
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:01 PM   #142
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[B]ehind-the-scenes, Boehner and his aides worked for months with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), and others, to save these very same, long-standing [congressional Obamacare] subsidies, according to documents and e-mails provided to POLITICO. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) was also aware of these discussions, the documents show.

One email even appears to show that Boehner’s office discussed how it would disguise a planned meeting on the subject with President Barack Obama as a meeting on immigration reform, National Review Online reported.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:18 PM   #143
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Seems reasonable...
  • Repeal of the Medical Device Tax
  • One year delay on the individual mandate
  • The Senate's Continuing Resolution gets pushed to December 15th
  • Troops get paid regardless


http://www.speaker.gov/press-release...stop-obamacare
So sad how far you've walked back. The medical device tax is something that the democratic majority have agreed upon for some length of time. Maybe you'll get that, and the people who got their ass whipped can take their victory lap.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:38 AM   #144
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American voters are divided on Obamacare, with 45 percent in favor and 47 percent opposed, but they are opposed 58-34 percent to Congress cutting off funding for the health care law to stop its implementation. Republicans support the federal government shutdown by a narrow 49-44 percent margin, but opposition is 90-6 percent among Democrats and 74-19 percent among independent voters.
http://www.politico.com/playbook/

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[T]hese are devastating numbers for the GOP. If their private polling is close to this, we’ll see a deal soon, probably. Except that…individual right-wing members polling their own right-wing districts will see that locally, their numbers are going up! And that is the problem in a nutshell right there.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...st+Articles%29
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:42 AM   #145
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So sad how far you've walked back. The medical device tax is something that the democratic majority have agreed upon for some length of time. Maybe you'll get that, and the people who got their ass whipped can take their victory lap.
The device tax is just a bargaining chip. It is free to get stripped because this is all about the mandate.

It is a funny liberal concept though. A tax on medical devices as part of the "Affordable Care Act"

That pretty much sums up everything you need to know about leftynomics.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:11 AM   #146
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The Democratic administration, and a sufficient number of Republicans, already agree and are ready enough to compromise to solve this problem. If the normal machinery of democracy were allowed to work, the manufactured crisis would be over. The only reason the senseless damage is being done is that hostage-takers have terrorized members of their own party.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-story/280179/
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:41 AM   #147
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Exactly!

The problem is clear, but idiots are still supporting the Tea Party because they are political simpletons.

Last edited by DenverBrit; 10-03-2013 at 09:48 AM..
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:56 AM   #148
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And there doesn't appear to be much hope of the fever breaking any time soon.

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There is no equivalent on the moderate-Republican side to the organisational muscle and rhetorical elan that propels the party’s tea-party wing. No one is lining up to back moderate primary challengers to tea-party candidates. Establishment figures from previous Republican administrations who have found themselves transformed into voices of caution and moderation, such as Mr Gerson, most of the writers at National Review Online, and even (mutatis mutandi) Karl Rove, appear to have little ability to affect the party’s course anymore.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...13/10/shutdown
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:39 AM   #149
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That's an outright lie. All the veterans are getting their benefits. Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment are also ALL not affected. The active military is getting paid as well.


The ONLY affected activities are NON-ESSENTIAL. Please get your facts straight.
That is not true at all. Several programs under VA are shut down or running on reduced schedules including several hot-lines, regional offices are gone. Claim and payment services will be running for another 2-3 weeks and then shut down if funding has not resumed.

Don't call people liars when you don't know what you are talking about son, it reflects poorly on your intelligence.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:45 AM   #150
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And there doesn't appear to be much hope of the fever breaking any time soon.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...13/10/shutdown
There are two problems right now for the GOP, one is that the Tea Party while not wielding a lot of actual voters has a lot of funding and many more moderate republican candidates have to genuinely worry about losing their seats in primary elections to Tea Party candidates with big campaign coffers, this forces some republican incumbents to vote more along Tea Party lines than they otherwise would. The other issue for the GOP is that moderates are afraid to align themselves with people like Mccain or Bush supporters because of the very negative feelings many voters have towards the Bush administration.
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