The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-27-2013, 03:48 PM   #1
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,322
Default Syria - another war crime in the making

Obama will launch another war with only 9% support. Incredible. MHG

Obama's Syria Moment
Another Western War Crime In The Making


http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/...in-the-making/

by PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Washington and its British and French puppet governments are poised to yet again reveal their criminality. The image of the West as War Criminal is not a propaganda image created by the West’s enemies, but the portrait that the West has painted of itself.

The UK Independent reports that over this past week-end Obama, Cameron, and Hollande agreed to launch cruise missile attacks against the Syrian government within two weeks despite the lack of any authorization from the UN and despite the absence of any evidence in behalf of Washington’s claim that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons against the Washington-backed “rebels”, largely US supported external forces, seeking to overthrow the Syrian government.

Indeed, one reason for the rush to war is to prevent the UN inspection that Washington knows would disprove its claim and possibly implicate Washington in the false flag attack by the “rebels,” who assembled a large number of children into one area to be chemically murdered with the blame pinned by Washington on the Syrian government.

Another reason for the rush to war is that Cameron, the UK prime minister, wants to get the war going before the British parliament can block him for providing cover for Obama’s war crimes the way that Tony Blair provided cover for George W. Bush, for which Blair was duly rewarded. What does Cameron care about Syrian lives when he can leave office into the waiting arms of a $50 million fortune.

The Syrian government, knowing that it is not responsible for the chemical weapons incident, has agreed for the UN to send in chemical inspectors to determine the substance used and the method of delivery. However, Washington has declared that it is “too late” for UN inspectors and that Washington accepts the self-serving claim of the al Qaeda affiliated “rebels” that the Syrian government attacked civilians with chemical weapons.

In an attempt to prevent the UN chemical inspectors who arrived on the scene from doing their work, the inspectors were fired upon by snipers in “rebel” held territory and forced off site, although a later report from RT says the inspectors have returned to the site to conduct their inspection.

The corrupt British government has declared that Syria can be attacked without UN authorization, just as Serbia and Libya were militarily attacked without UN authorization.

In other words, the Western democracies have already established precedents for violating international law. “International law? We don’t need no stinking international law!” The West knows only one rule: Might is Right. As long as the West has the Might, the West has the Right.

In a response to the news report that the US, UK, and France are preparing to attack Syria, the Russian Foreign Minister, Lavrov, said that such unilateral action is a “severe violation of international law,” and that the violation was not only a legal one but also an ethical and moral violation. Lavrov referred to the lies and deception used by the West to justify its grave violations of international law in military attacks on Serbia, Iraq, and Libya and how the US government used preemptive moves to undermine every hope for peaceful settlements in Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

Once again Washington has preempted any hope of peaceful settlement. By announcing the forthcoming attack, the US destroyed any incentive for the “rebels” to participate in the peace talks with the Syrian government. On the verge of these talks taking place, the “rebels” now have no incentive to participate as the West’s military is coming to their aid.

In his press conference Lavrov spoke of how the ruling parties in the US, UK, and France stir up emotions among poorly informed people that, once aroused, have to be satisfied by war. This, of course, is the way the US manipulated the public in order to attack Afghanistan and Iraq. But the American public is tired of the wars, the goal of which is never made clear, and has grown suspicious of the government’s justifications for more wars.

A Reuters/Ipsos poll finds that “Americans strongly oppose U.S. intervention in Syria’s civil war and believe Washington should stay out of the conflict even if reports that Syria’s government used deadly chemicals to attack civilians are confirmed.” However, Obama could not care less that only 9 percent of the public supports his warmongering. As former president Jimmy Carter recently stated, “America has no functioning democracy.” It has a police state in which the executive branch has placed itself above all law and the Constitution.

This police state is now going to commit yet another Nazi-style war crime of unprovoked aggression. At Nuremberg the Nazis were sentenced to death for precisely the identical actions being committed by Obama, Cameron, and Hollande. The West is banking on might, not right, to keep it out of the criminal dock.

The US, UK, and French governments have not explained why it matters whether people in the wars initiated by the West are killed by explosives made of depleted uranium or with chemical agents or any other weapon. It was obvious from the beginning that Obama was setting up the Syrian government for attack. Obama demonized chemical weapons–but not nuclear “bunker busters” that the US might use on Iran. Then Obama drew a red line, saying that the use of chemical weapons by the Syrians was such a great crime that the West would be obliged to attack Syria. Washington’s UK puppets, William Hague and Cameron, have just repeated this nonsensical claim. The final step in the frame-up was to orchestrate a chemical incident and blame the Syrian government.

What is the West’s real agenda? This is the unasked and unanswered question. Clearly, the US, UK, and French governments, which have displayed continuously their support for dictatorial regimes that serve their purposes, are not the least disturbed by dictatorships. They brand Assad a dictator as a means of demonizing him for the ill-informed Western masses. But Washington, UK, and France support any number of dictatorial regimes, such as the ones in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and now the military dictatorship in Egypt that is ruthlessly killing Egyptians without any Western government speaking of invading Egypt for “killing its own people.”

Clearly also, the forthcoming Western attack on Syria has nothing whatsoever to do with bringing “freedom and democracy” to Syria any more than freedom and democracy were reasons for the attacks on Iraq and Libya, neither of which gained any “freedom and democracy.”

The Western attack on Syria is unrelated to human rights, justice or any of the high sounding causes with which the West cloaks its criminality.

The Western media, and least of all the American presstitutes, never ask Obama, Cameron, or Hollande what the real agenda is. It is difficult to believe than any reporter is sufficiently stupid or gullible to believe that the agenda is bringing “freedom and democracy” to Syria or punishing Assad for allegedly using chemical weapons against murderous thugs trying to overthrow the Syrian government.

Of course, the question wouldn’t be answered if asked. But the act of asking it would help make the public aware that more is afoot than meets the eye. Originally, the excuse for Washington’s wars was to keep Americans safe from terrorists. Now Washington is endeavoring to turn Syria over to jihad terrorists by helping them to overthrow the secular, non-terrorist Assad government. What is the agenda behind Washington’s support of terrorism?

Perhaps the purpose of the wars is to radicalize Muslims and, thereby, destabilize Russia and even China. Russia has large populations of Muslims and is bordered by Muslim countries. Even China has some Muslim population. As radicalization spreads strife into the only two countries capable of being an obstacle to Washington’s world hegemony, Western media propaganda and the large number of US financed NGOs, posing as “human rights” organizations, can be counted on by Washington to demonize the Russian and Chinese governments for harsh measures against “rebels.”

Another advantage of the radicalization of Muslims is that it leaves former Muslim countries in long-term turmoil or civil wars, as is currently the case in Iraq and Libya, thus removing any organized state power from obstructing Israeli purposes.

Secretary of State John Kerry is working the phones using bribes and threats to build acceptance, if not support, for Washington’s war crime-in-the-making against Syria.

Washington is driving the world closer to nuclear war than it ever was even in the most dangerous periods of the Cold War. When Washington finishes with Syria, the next target is Iran. Russia and China will no longer be able to fool themselves that there is any system of international law or restraint on Western criminality. Western aggression is already forcing both countries to develop their strategic nuclear forces and to curtail the Western-financed NGOs that pose as “human rights organizations,” but in reality comprise a fifth column that Washington can use to destroy the legitimacy of the Russian and Chinese governments.

Russia and China have been extremely careless in their dealings with the United States. Essentially, the Russian political opposition is financed by Washington. Even the Chinese government is being undermined. When a US corporation opens a company in China, it creates a Chinese board on which are put relatives of the local political authorities. These boards create a conduit for payments that influence the decisions and loyalties of local and regional party members. The US has penetrated Chinese universities and intellectual attitudes. The Rockefeller University is active in China as is Rockefeller philanthropy. Dissenting voices are being created that are arrayed against the Chinese government. Demands for “liberalization” can resurrect regional and ethnic differences and undermine the cohesiveness of the national government.

Once Russia and China realize that they are riven with American fifth columns, isolated diplomatically, and outgunned militarily, nuclear weapons become the only guarantor of their sovereignty. This suggests that nuclear war is likely to terminate humanity well before humanity succumbs to global warming or rising national debts.

Update:

The war criminals in Washington and other Western capitals are determined to maintain their lie that the Syrian government used chemical weapons. Having failed in efforts to intimidate the UN chemical inspectors in Syria, Washington has demanded that UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon withdraw the chemical weapons inspectors before they can assess the evidence and make their report. The UN Secretary General stood up to the Washington war criminals and rejected their demand.

The US and UK governments have revealed none of the “conclusive evidence” they claim to have that the Syrian government used chemical weapons. Listening to their voices, observing their body language, and looking into their eyes, it is completely obvious that John Kerry and his British and German puppets are lying through their teeth. This is a far more shameful situation than the massive lies that former Secretary of State Colin Powell told the UN about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. Colin Powell claims that he was deceived by the White House and did not know that he was lying. Kerry and the British, French, and German puppets know full well that they are lying.

The face that the West presents to the world is the brazen face of a liar.

Paul Craig Roberts is a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. His latest book The Failure of Laissez-Faire Capitalism. Roberts’ How the Economy Was Lost is now available from CounterPunch in electronic format.
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-27-2013, 04:00 PM   #2
Meck77
.
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,792
Default

Not so fast Gaff...........

Sounds like Congress may weigh in here.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...n-in-congress/
Meck77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 04:03 PM   #3
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,439

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

So. Has anybody bothered to ask what critical interest to our national security will be addressed by attacking Syria?

Last edited by Rohirrim; 08-27-2013 at 04:07 PM..
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 04:26 PM   #4
Meck77
.
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,792
Default

Get a load of this. Biden going on record saying he would move to Impeach bush if he attacked iran without congressional approval.

If Obama attacks Syria would Biden go after Obama?

http://www.caintv.com/in-2007-biden-threatened-to-im
Meck77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 04:46 PM   #5
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,157

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
So. Has anybody bothered to ask what critical interest to our national security will be addressed by attacking Syria?
None,other then the treatys/agreements we have with the other countries in the UN.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 06:35 PM   #6
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,439

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
None,other then the treatys/agreements we have with the other countries in the UN.
I don't hear us including the UN in this decision, do you?
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 08:41 PM   #7
SoCalBronco
Nixonite
 
SoCalBronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Arcadia, CA
Posts: 36,662

Adopt-a-Bronco:
D.J. Williams
Default

I'd rather have Assad in charge than groups affiliated with Al Qaeda.
__________________
Its a Hockey Night in Pittsburgh!

SoCalBronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 09:20 PM   #8
theAPAOps5
A new beginning!
 
theAPAOps5's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 31,177

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Watermock - RIP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
I'd rather have Assad in charge than groups affiliated with Al Qaeda.
Sadly, Me too, it's a lose lose for the majority of us. But ghaffo would rather anyone who would attack the Jews in power. So it's win win for him, regardless of horrible war crimes and gas attacks or Muslim brotherhood.
theAPAOps5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 10:25 PM   #9
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,295

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
None,other then the treatys/agreements we have with the other countries in the UN.
You have no gag reflex do you? Cock, balls and all.
ant1999e is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 05:48 AM   #10
Meck77
.
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,792
Default

100,000 slaughtered in Syria the last two years. Where was our response then?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/...pons-red-line/
Meck77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 06:18 AM   #11
alkemical
Guerrilla Ontologist
 
alkemical's Avatar
 
rorrim|mirror

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Future
Posts: 43,083

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Prima Materia
Default

With information about the cia helping saddam gas Iranian troops and admission they overthrew the pm...I'd be very suspect on information received.
alkemical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 07:00 AM   #12
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,439

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alkemical View Post
With information about the cia helping saddam gas Iranian troops and admission they overthrew the pm...I'd be very suspect on information received.
It's kind of funny. So many people have the response, "Oh sure, they were doing that back then, but they're not doing that now. Now, there's oversight."
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 07:02 AM   #13
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,439

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
I'd rather have Assad in charge than groups affiliated with Al Qaeda.
Not me. At least with the opposition there is a chance for change. Like in Egypt, the people sent the Muslim Brotherhood packing. I don't doubt the majority would do the same thing to Al Queda in Syria, if they were able to win. With Assad in control, you have no chance.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 07:25 AM   #14
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,577

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alkemical View Post
With information about the cia helping saddam gas Iranian troops and admission they overthrew the pm...I'd be very suspect on information received.
They need to allow the weapons inspectors time to do their job, we don't need another 'Iraq' and without a 3rd party verification, that's exactly what we might be getting.......another recruiting bonanza for Al Qaeda.

Good read from the BBC.

Syria attack may force search for peace
By Jim Muir BBC News, Beirut


Quote:
The Western powers have never wanted the rebels to win.
Syrians in Bulgaria protest against Wednesday's suspected chemical weapons attack (23 August 2013) The US and UK insist "significant use of chemical weapons would merit a serious response"

Their strategy has been to redress the balance so that the regime came under such pressure that it would cave in, dump the Assad leadership and negotiate a transition that would exclude the inner ruling circle while preserving stability and state structures.

There has never been evidence to suggest such an approach might work.

The signs have always been that the regime would pull the whole house down around it before capitulating, and also that its strategic allies, especially Russia, Iran and Hezbollah, would not allow that to happen.

In addition, the West faces the reality that the moderate opposition elements it has been trying to boost have proven neither cohesive, credible nor effective on the ground.

Instead, the running has largely been made by Islamist factions, many linked to al-Qaeda.

Full article.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23831696
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 07:40 AM   #15
Pony Boy
"Whoa Nellie"
 
Pony Boy's Avatar
 
Omaha !!!

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,666

Adopt-a-Bronco:
mellon head
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
So. Has anybody bothered to ask what critical interest to our national security will be addressed by attacking Syria?
Disruption of oil supply. Syria lies in close proximity to pipelines and sea routes that transport much of the world’s crude.

October crude futures surged an ended in a sixth-month high.
Pony Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 09:53 AM   #16
alkemical
Guerrilla Ontologist
 
alkemical's Avatar
 
rorrim|mirror

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Future
Posts: 43,083

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Prima Materia
Default

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ops-Syria.html

Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria
Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia’s gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria.

Quote:
The details of the talks were first leaked to the Russian press. A more detailed version has since appeared in the Lebanese newspaper As-Safir, which has Hezbollah links and is hostile to the Saudis.
As-Safir said Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord. “I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us,” he allegedly said.
alkemical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 09:58 AM   #17
alkemical
Guerrilla Ontologist
 
alkemical's Avatar
 
rorrim|mirror

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Future
Posts: 43,083

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Prima Materia
Default

If anyone is interested - here are some links referencing the CIA involvement in the assistance in regard to gassing the iranians and the offical admission of involvement in ousting the PM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alkemical View Post
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ld-Reagan.html


CIA 'helped Saddam Hussein carry out chemical weapons attack on Iran' in 1988 under Ronald Reagan
U.S. fed intelligence to Iraq about whereabouts of Iranian forces
Iraq deployed mustard gas and sarin in 1988 on the back of the information
U.S. administration supported Iraq during the eight-year conflict
Up to 20,000 Iranian troops were killed by mustard gas and nerve agents from Iraqi forces during the war


http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...ind_irans_coup


CIA Admits It Was Behind Iran's Coup
The agency finally owns up to its role in the 1953 operation.


And we're supposed to buy this claim of chem weapons in Syria?

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/20...d-temple-mount

Seems like a script.
alkemical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:37 AM   #18
baja
Happy camper
 
baja's Avatar
 
Sweet

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 60,173

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ware
Default

A government by the people for the people to serve the people.


Do you feel it?
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:45 AM   #19
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,157

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
I don't hear us including the UN in this decision, do you?
We're in talks with UN countries france ,England,turkey and other countries are already on board with the USA. What's going on is Russia & china have veto power,just like the USA has veto power and they are exercising it.

Personally,I don't support bombing syria , because I don't think we should be policing everything that happens around the world & if you break it you get stuck for years fixing it.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:48 AM   #20
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,157

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
I'd rather have Assad in charge than groups affiliated with Al Qaeda.
Assad will remain in charge,in large part because any attack we do will not be with the intent of removing Assad from power.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:53 AM   #21
Traveler
Traveling Man!
 
Traveler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,419

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ryan Clady
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
It's kind of funny. So many people have the response, "Oh sure, they were doing that back then, but they're not doing that now. Now, there's oversight."
Exactly!
Traveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 12:24 PM   #22
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theAPAOps5 View Post
Sadly, Me too, it's a lose lose for the majority of us. But ghaffo would rather anyone who would attack the Jews in power. So it's win win for him, regardless of horrible war crimes and gas attacks or Muslim brotherhood.
You're insane, APA. We all lose.

The goal of this proxy war appears to be the balkanization of Syria.

Now who would want that? Answer: Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, and Israel.

Those are the facts. MHG
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 12:28 PM   #23
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alkemical View Post
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ops-Syria.html

Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria
Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia’s gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria.
Russia will not accept such a deal. Putin correctly understands that Syria is vital for Russian security. If Syria is destroyed, Iran will soon follow, then Russia.

The line is drawn in the sand. Imagine if a Russian ship is sunk in the Mediterranean.

Unfortunately, there is no JFK in the White House to stand firm against the generals. Obama is spineless -- has allowed the generals to push him around.

Madmen rule the West.

MHG
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 12:30 PM   #24
theAPAOps5
A new beginning!
 
theAPAOps5's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 31,177

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Watermock - RIP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhgaffney View Post
You're insane, APA. We all lose.

The goal of this proxy war appears to be the balkanization of Syria.

Now who would want that? Answer: Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, and Israel.

Those are the facts. MHG
No sir, you are clearly the one who is off his rocker and most likely a sociopath.
theAPAOps5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 12:37 PM   #25
orinjkrush
...
 
orinjkrush's Avatar
 
Hey, no hurling on the shell, dude,

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: FrontRangeAbove8500ft
Posts: 5,217

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ben Garland
Default

I think Russia is more concerned with the possible competition in natural gas pipelines that a more business "friendly" Syria might pose. Russia has a stranglehold on Europe in terms of energy right now.

Second, Obama is owned lock stock and barrel, not by the Pentagon, but by the CIA. I would really like to know who is driving the CIA, 'cause it's not the "public" administration. I'm wondering if there is a hidden, big money cabal driving the CIA somehow.
orinjkrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:50 PM.


Denver Broncos