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Old 08-16-2013, 08:21 AM   #101
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The bolded is straight up stupid. I said no such thing, stop trying to deflect because you are losing the argument.

She can take credit for her program, and why you think I'd say otherwise is ridiculous. She is talking about, and taking credit for, decreases in obesity that happened before this program was even a thought. Do you not see the difference?



Her programs are being given credit. no not all the credit but some. talk about stupid.
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:21 PM   #102
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Funny, someone else was just b****ing the other day about AEI bothering to still publish different proposals at this late Obamacare hour and what a waste of time that was. Which is it?

Anyway, as for the Newt, mostly bull****.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/201...dicare-reform/

Newt's always trying to separate himself as an "ideas" guy. But the real problem isn't that there aren't alternative ideas. It's that nobody talks about your ideas if you don't have the power to implement them.
So can you link us to the page on the republican party website that outlines their "official" replacement plan for Obamacare?

A few ideas being thrown out by some republicans doesn't amount to a republican party healthcare reform plan. Until the entire party is behind such a plan, they have no real alternative to Obamacare.
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:26 PM   #103
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So can you link us to the page on the republican party website that outlines their "official" replacement plan for Obamacare?

A few ideas being thrown out by some republicans doesn't amount to a republican party healthcare reform plan. Until the entire party is behind such a plan, they have no real alternative to Obamacare.
Parties don't put out concrete proposals like that. They mostly speak in general principles (which are mostly ignored)

Anyway, nobody even knew what Democrats were passing when they passed it. It certainly wasn't built off of some widely-published proposal that made the rounds beforehand.
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:27 PM   #104
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Marks my words: this hardcore drive to sabotage and completely repeal the PPACA is going to blow up in republican's faces.
What they are fighting for is a Pyrrhic Victory......
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:29 PM   #105
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Parties don't put out concrete proposals like that. They mostly speak in general principles (which are mostly ignored)

Anyway, nobody even knew what Democrats were passing when they passed it. It certainly wasn't built off of some widely-published proposal that made the rounds beforehand.
It was built of the Heritage propopsal of the 90's with insight from the Massaschetts Health Care Law.....

People know what is was. Some wanted Single Payor, some wanted Public Option, some just wanted anything better than the shortfalls or what he had... in end we got the Hybrid Convoluted Lobby Pleasing bill that does an "ok" job of dealing with the issues.
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:48 PM   #106
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It was built of the Heritage propopsal of the 90's with insight from the Massaschetts Health Care Law.....

People know what is was. Some wanted Single Payor, some wanted Public Option, some just wanted anything better than the shortfalls or what he had... in end we got the Hybrid Convoluted Lobby Pleasing bill that does an "ok" job of dealing with the issues.
There's only so many angles to take on health care. You could say parts of it resemble any number of past proposals. But to claim that this was a product of something that was thoroughly vetted to the public first is fantasy. Candidate Obama was pretty clearly against the individual mandate, for instance, which now is the only one in the ACA that he hasn't put on a political vacation.
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:17 PM   #107
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There's only so many angles to take on health care. You could say parts of it resemble any number of past proposals. But to claim that this was a product of something that was thoroughly vetted to the public first is fantasy. Candidate Obama was pretty clearly against the individual mandate, for instance, which now is the only one in the ACA that he hasn't put on a political vacation.
How many laws passed are "thoroughly vetted" by the public?
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:40 PM   #108
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Well he finally got his wish from the last line in this poem, he can send the doctor bill to "Whitey on the Moon"

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Old 08-16-2013, 01:44 PM   #109
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How many laws passed are "thoroughly vetted" by the public?
That's kinda my point.
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:11 PM   #110
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That's kinda my point.
It's always been this way.

How long have you been complaining about it?

My guess is <5 years or so.

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Old 08-16-2013, 02:20 PM   #111
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It's always been this way.

How long have you been complaining about it?

My guess is <5 years or so.

I'm not complaining about it. I'm saying it's silly for people to expect any different.

There was no concrete "Democratic Health Care Plan" laid out in detail prior to the Obamacare sausage-stuffing. Because that's not how things are done in Washington.

Why would there be one from Republicans? There are a range of ideas from a range of people on both sides. with no 'official' version to go on.
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:37 PM   #112
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I'm not complaining about it. I'm saying it's silly for people to expect any different.

There was no concrete "Democratic Health Care Plan" laid out in detail prior to the Obamacare sausage-stuffing. Because that's not how things are done in Washington.

Why would there be one from Republicans? There are a range of ideas from a range of people on both sides. with no 'official' version to go on.
Hey dude look at all the part time jobs that were created......


wait for it

......out of full time jobs
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:25 PM   #113
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61% Expect Health Care in U.S. To Get Worse Over Next Two Years
62% See Free Market As Better Than More Regulation In Reducing Health Care Costs
60% Expect Costs To Rise Under Federal Health Care Law
59% Prefer Less Health Insurance, Bigger Paycheck
54% View Health Care Law Unfavorably
By a two-to-one margin, 56% to 26%, voters want the president to delay implementation of the individual mandate.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/cont...rchText=health
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:52 PM   #114
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61% Expect Health Care in U.S. To Get Worse Over Next Two Years
62% See Free Market As Better Than More Regulation In Reducing Health Care Costs
60% Expect Costs To Rise Under Federal Health Care Law
59% Prefer Less Health Insurance, Bigger Paycheck
54% View Health Care Law Unfavorably
By a two-to-one margin, 56% to 26%, voters want the president to delay implementation of the individual mandate.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/cont...rchText=health
Rasmussen's long history of a conservative lean aside, look at the polling on the individual details of the ACA and then get back to us.
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:48 PM   #115
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61% Expect Health Care in U.S. To Get Worse Over Next Two Years
62% See Free Market As Better Than More Regulation In Reducing Health Care Costs
60% Expect Costs To Rise Under Federal Health Care Law
59% Prefer Less Health Insurance, Bigger Paycheck
54% View Health Care Law Unfavorably
By a two-to-one margin, 56% to 26%, voters want the president to delay implementation of the individual mandate.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/cont...rchText=health
Problem is, few polled really understand Obama-care (me included) and are responding to whatever they learn from the 'news' source' they use.

Both 'parties' need to get their act together and 'modify' the bill until it makes fiscal sense, while at the same time, meeting its objectives; everyone covered, pre-existing condition(s) coverage, no lifetime limits on $ payouts for healthcare (the REAL death panel) etc.

They also need to look at the way it is being 'delivered;' I have serious doubts about the current viability of blanket coverage for employees working 30+ hours. Some serious tweaking needs to take place there.

Uncoupling healthcare coverage from the employers is the way to go, but that's another can of worms.

Lowering healthcare costs needs to be the priority, and that appears to vary from State to State.
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:40 PM   #116
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I'm not complaining about it. I'm saying it's silly for people to expect any different.

There was no concrete "Democratic Health Care Plan" laid out in detail prior to the Obamacare sausage-stuffing. Because that's not how things are done in Washington.

Why would there be one from Republicans? There are a range of ideas from a range of people on both sides. with no 'official' version to go on.
The dems proved that they could get behind a plan and pass it. The republicans have shown no such potential.

No matter how much you dance around the issue the public perception is that even if the republicans are successful in repealing the PPACA chances are they'll replace it with nothing because they haven't proven they can get behind a plan of their own.
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Old 08-17-2013, 01:45 AM   #117
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The dems proved that they could get behind a plan and pass it. The republicans have shown no such potential.

No matter how much you dance around the issue the public perception is that even if the republicans are successful in repealing the PPACA chances are they'll replace it with nothing because they haven't proven they can get behind a plan of their own.
They won't be successful repealing, so the only thing they think they can do is defund it, yet the vast majority of the law is permanent, so even defunding it doesn't do dick.

So instead the party of no does nothing except obstruct because they don't like the law, and keep trying to shove poll numbers down the public's throat which, after they're parsed, any person with two brain cells to rub together knows the public supports the individual tenets of the law.
Give it up. Stop obstructing and ****ing govern for a change.


Last edited by houghtam; 08-17-2013 at 01:49 AM..
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:53 PM   #118
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UPS to drop 15,000 spouses from insurance, cites Obamacare

United Parcel Service Inc. plans to remove thousands of spouses from its medical plan because they are eligible for coverage elsewhere.
The decision comes as many analysts are downplaying the Affordable Care Act's effect on companies such as UPS, noting that the move reflects a long-term trend of shrinking corporate medical benefits, Kaiser Health News reports. But UPS repeatedly cites Obamacare to explain the decision, adding fuel to the debate over whether it erodes traditional employer coverage, Kaiser says.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/m...uses-from.html
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:01 PM   #119
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The dems proved that they could get behind a plan and pass it. The republicans have shown no such potential.
That's not really a rational argument. It's one of those things that's true right up until the moment it isn't.

Not even getting into whether shooting yourself in the foot is "better" than doing nothing.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:09 PM   #120
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That's not really a rational argument. It's one of those things that's true right up until the moment it isn't.

Not even getting into whether shooting yourself in the foot is "better" than doing nothing.
For someone who whines so much about the "do somethingers", you sure talk a lot about doing nothing.

Do nothinger.

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Old 08-21-2013, 01:12 PM   #121
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For someone who whines so much about the "do somethingers", you sure talk a lot about doing nothing.

Do nothinger.

Doing nothing is preferable to a Federal "one-size-fits-300-million" solution 90% of the time.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:19 PM   #122
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UPS to drop 15,000 spouses from insurance, cites Obamacare

United Parcel Service Inc. plans to remove thousands of spouses from its medical plan because they are eligible for coverage elsewhere.
The decision comes as many analysts are downplaying the Affordable Care Act's effect on companies such as UPS, noting that the move reflects a long-term trend of shrinking corporate medical benefits, Kaiser Health News reports. But UPS repeatedly cites Obamacare to explain the decision, adding fuel to the debate over whether it erodes traditional employer coverage, Kaiser says.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/m...uses-from.html
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...g-spouses.html

it is working spouses of white-collar employees, due to the spouse can get insured through their own employer. None of the 250,000 regular workers from drivers to package handlers are affected.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:24 PM   #123
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Doing nothing is preferable to a Federal "one-size-fits-300-million" solution 90% of the time.
Link?
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:32 PM   #124
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http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...g-spouses.html

it is working spouses of white-collar employees, due to the spouse can get insured through their own employer. None of the 250,000 regular workers from drivers to package handlers are affected.
Barack Obama says that under his health care law, those who have health insurance will keep it.

"If you're one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance," Obama said.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:34 PM   #125
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Mid- and large-sized companies overwhelmingly expect health-care costs to increase under Obamacare—and most are eyeing possible changes to their health insurance offerings because of a looming excise tax for pricier plans under the health-care reform law, a new survey of employers finds.

In fact, 40 percent of 420 companies surveyed by Towers Watson said they will be changing their insurance plans' designs in 2014 in light of the coming excise tax as well as to control employee-related health costs.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/100975973
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