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Old 08-19-2013, 11:21 PM   #1826
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I liked all three. I'd like to go through them all again now that I've been through them once and see if I can find any hidden context. I'd specifically be looking for more clues on Bloodraven, who I believe is a vastly underrated and poorly understood character by the majority of the ASOIAF fandom.

For my part, I think Bloodraven is playing The Game on a whole different level, making the game for the Iron Throne quaint. It seems to me that the throne that Blood Raven is sitting on is the real center of power in Westeros, regardless of the politics happening between the houses. Though, admittedly, it's not completely clear what influence Bloodraven wields from that position outside of knowing virtually everything about the past and present.

This, of course, calls into question what is going on with Bran, who is seemingly being groomed for the position. I once made the statement that I think Bran, in the end, as a warg, might end up being Azor Ahai returned. It's a theory I turn over in my mind now and again. I don't know that I think that's the case anymore though - especially not until we find out what happens to Jon Snow (who really believes he's dead and gone for good?) In any case, I do think Bran has the potential to be The Prince That Was Promised with Jon having the potential to be Azor Ahai - which the question that I have is "are they on the same side?

This much I know, Bloodraven is using "magic" and he's pro-targaryen. Somewhere in the world is a magic wielder representing Rhollor, whose voice Varys heard during the penis pyre episode. This is where the real game is happening, I think... Between these two. And if they *ARE* moving chess pieces on the board, Bloodraven is clearly moving them for the Targaryen cause, where Rhollor is apparently backing Stannis. Which kind of screws with my mind in all sorts of ways when I start thinking about the implications of it all...

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Old 08-20-2013, 09:51 AM   #1827
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This much I know, Bloodraven is using "magic" and he's pro-targaryen
I'm very curious about this. What actions has he taken since he became the Three eyed crow that would still make him pro-Targaryan? I'm not arguing but I can't really think of any and you definitely know the series better than most people I've talked to.

Also, here's something else that I saw on another board that was being debated. Do you think the Children of the Forest are controlling Bloodraven or do you think he is controlling the remnants of them?
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:52 AM   #1828
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I'd buy Jaime Lannister as the PwwP long before Bran Stark.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:47 AM   #1829
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I'd buy Jaime Lannister as the PwwP long before Bran Stark.
Jamie is not even a prince, where Bran is.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:12 PM   #1830
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Jamie is not even a prince, where Bran is.
Bran is not and if Jon and Dany were huge red herrings, it would be super anticlimactic for the answer to be Bran.

Jaime, on the other hand, wouldn't be anti-climactic at all (I mean, how cool would be it be if in the trial by combat, Jaime runs Brienne through and creates Lightbringer?!?!). His story has been the greatest redemption story in the series thus far. Jaime might absolutely be a Targ since they allude that Aerys may have had liberties on the wedding night to Tywin, so Jaime is much more of a prince than Bran could possibly tie himself to at this point.

The closest plot twists you'll get with Bran are as either a Dragon "rider" via warging or as a possible candidate to be "The Great Other" (how cool would it be if "Winter Is Coming" was a threat and not a warning, all along?)
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:00 PM   #1831
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Has nothing to do with nothing, but....

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Old 08-20-2013, 01:20 PM   #1832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
Bran is not and if Jon and Dany were huge red herrings, it would be super anticlimactic for the answer to be Bran.

Jaime, on the other hand, wouldn't be anti-climactic at all (I mean, how cool would be it be if in the trial by combat, Jaime runs Brienne through and creates Lightbringer?!?!). His story has been the greatest redemption story in the series thus far. Jaime might absolutely be a Targ since they allude that Aerys may have had liberties on the wedding night to Tywin, so Jaime is much more of a prince than Bran could possibly tie himself to at this point.

The closest plot twists you'll get with Bran are as either a Dragon "rider" via warging or as a possible candidate to be "The Great Other" (how cool would it be if "Winter Is Coming" was a threat and not a warning, all along?)
All very interesting points. I've considered that the twins were Targs myself, though Tywin's clear love for Jaime kind of shuttered that thought for me. I had often wondered if maybe Tyrion was a Targ, though that seems unlikely as well.

You're right that Bran being the PWWP would kind of screw up Jon Snow's storyline, but who knows if he's even coming back. I guess we all believe that he's going to get the kiss, or warg his way out of death somehow.

With any luck, we'll get the book next year... But how cool would it be if it was released this winter?
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:02 PM   #1833
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I think Snow is Azor Ahai. Once Melisandre realizes it, Stannis better watch out, because she going to suck all that kings blood out of him to awaken the stone dragon.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:59 PM   #1834
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Bran is not and if Jon and Dany were huge red herrings, it would be super anticlimactic for the answer to be Bran.
I've been thinking about this, and I disagree that it would be anticlimactic. First of all, there's no promise that Jon Snow is coming back. Secondly, from everything I've read, The Prince Who Was Promised is not the same person as Azor Ahai. Thirdly, the story is chock full of red herrings, which is part of what makes it so good. And finally, I think it would be a huge climax to find out that Bran is the PwwP, and he started - I don't know - kicking ass through his warg abilities. I'm dying to know where this part (Bran) of the story is going.

I do like your theory on Jaime and Brienne though. And also, I don't take any theory too seriously - not even my own. I just like to explore the different possibilities. There is so much potential in this story still.

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Old 08-20-2013, 10:04 PM   #1835
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I'm very curious about this. What actions has he taken since he became the Three eyed crow that would still make him pro-Targaryan? I'm not arguing but I can't really think of any and you definitely know the series better than most people I've talked to.

Also, here's something else that I saw on another board that was being debated. Do you think the Children of the Forest are controlling Bloodraven or do you think he is controlling the remnants of them?
Hard to say. Despite some backstory by way of TTODAE all that we really know about Bloodraven is that he's climbed to power using magic, and has a long history of advancing the cause of the Targaryen bloodline.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:10 AM   #1836
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Quote:
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I've been thinking about this, and I disagree that it would be anticlimactic. First of all, there's no promise that Jon Snow is coming back. Secondly, from everything I've read, The Prince Who Was Promised is not the same person as Azor Ahai. Thirdly, the story is chock full of red herrings, which is part of what makes it so good. And finally, I think it would be a huge climax to find out that Bran is the PwwP, and he started - I don't know - kicking ass through his warg abilities. I'm dying to know where this part (Bran) of the story is going.

I do like your theory on Jaime and Brienne though. And also, I don't take any theory too seriously - not even my own. I just like to explore the different possibilities. There is so much potential in this story still.
I still think the Bran idea is silly. The path that he's going down is an incredible one and already revealed. Making him PwwP/AA makes him far too much of a godlike Deus ex Machina for a Martin Story. A villain though... that fits a Martin story to a "T".

We still know next-to-nothing about the White Walkers other than "They are strange, beautiful...think, oh...the Sidhe made of ice, something like that...a different sort of life...inhuman, elegant, dangerous." Martin also confirmed that the White Walkers are not "dead", just an inhuman kind of life.

Bran being the Great Other would be an amazing twist. He's been lead to where he is by Bloodraven and Bloodraven only and its pretty damn likely that Bloodraven just fed him Jojen Reed.

I think the idea that the story isn't about Humans and Dragons vs Whitewalkers, but that it's the ancients versus Humans and that we'll see firsthand why the maesters killed off the dragons.

Also, Martin has a cool short story called the Ice Dragon that laid the template for a lot of elements he uses in the WW, etc. I'm very prepared for the others to have their own Dragon, maybe controlled through a near omniscient warg under a tree...

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I think Snow is Azor Ahai. Once Melisandre realizes it, Stannis better watch out, because she going to suck all that kings blood out of him to awaken the stone dragon.
Certainly the odds on favorite considering the symbolism they shoved down our throats in his "murdering". It's interesting to note that all the AA symbols DO also fit Dany's coming.

I'd distribute the odds:

60% Jon Snow
30% Dany
10% Jaime
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:34 AM   #1837
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He's been lead to where he is by Bloodraven and Bloodraven only and its pretty damn likely that Bloodraven just fed him Jojen Reed.
Did Jojen's greendream say his fate was "not going to be good" when he attempted to leave for Greywater Watch or when he actually got there?
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:47 AM   #1838
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Did Jojen's greendream say his fate was "not going to be good" when he attempted to leave for Greywater Watch or when he actually got there?
Neither, really:

Quote:
“He wants to go home,” Meera told Bran. “He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie.”
“He’s being brave,” said Bran. The only time a man can be brave is when he is afraid, his father had told him once, long ago, on the day they found the direwolf pups in the summer snows. He still remembered.
“He’s being stupid,” Meera said. “I’d hoped that when we found your three-eyed crow … now I wonder why we ever came.”
For me, Bran thought. “His greendreams,” he said.
“His greendreams.” Meera’s voice was bitter.
“Hodor,” said Hodor. Meera began to cry.
Meanwhile, the paste tasted like human blood... something Bran is familiar with through Summer and it's the only instance where Jojen doesn't say "This is not the day I die".

Certainly not 100% conclusive, but it's looking like Bloodraven dun fed Bran Jojen.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:01 AM   #1839
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Neither, really:



Meanwhile, the paste tasted like human blood... something Bran is familiar with through Summer and it's the only instance where Jojen doesn't say "This is not the day I die".

Certainly not 100% conclusive, but it's looking like Bloodraven dun fed Bran Jojen.
That would be a fantastic twist.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:51 AM   #1840
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Quote:
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I'd distribute the odds:

99% Lancel Lannister
60% Jon Snow
30% Dany
10% Jaime


Fixed that for you...


(great theory on Jojen, btw... Quality stuff)
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:06 PM   #1841
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Old 08-25-2013, 12:10 PM   #1842
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For anyone interested, the Game of Thrones RPG special edition went is on sale for like $8 down from $30 on steam.

I think the sale ends tonight or tomorrow.

I only had time to play for a little over an hour before my kiddo woke up, but was pretty fun so far. More story than play, which I like considering the story.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:04 PM   #1843
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Beloved fellow nerds, recommend some other books for me to read.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:06 PM   #1844
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Just going to toss this here, but just read Enders Game which is going to be a crappy (most likely) movie soon. It was a very quick, but good read and it's a three book series. I cant attest to the other two books yet.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:27 PM   #1845
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Beloved fellow nerds, recommend some other books for me to read.
Raven's Shadow Book One: Blood Song (Raven's Shadow) by Anthony Ryan (really good, was self published on Kindle and now picked up and reprinted by professional publisher TOR)

The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks and his Lightbringer series.
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:38 PM   #1846
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Beloved fellow nerds, recommend some other books for me to read.
Do you like Sci-Fi? I am a fan of Pandora's Star by Peter F. Hamilton. It's a two book series - a little slow at first, but pretty cool once you get to the impact point.
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:28 PM   #1847
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Finally got into the Wheel of Time series...it's amazing how much Martin and especially J.K. Rowling took from Robert Jordan. But Jordan did borrow heavily from Tolkien as well...
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:06 PM   #1848
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The Tome of Bill (all on kindle):
Vol. 1: Bill the Vampire
Vol. 2: Scary Dead Things
Vol. 3: The Mourning Woods
Vol. 4: Holier than Thou

Guaranteed to be addictive to nerds.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:06 PM   #1849
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Beloved fellow nerds, recommend some other books for me to read.
The Prince of Nothing trilogy by R. Scott Bakker is one I always recommend to people. In terms of world building (history as well) I have yet to read anything that comes close to the amount of detail he goes into. You'll also notice A LOT more philosophy than you would expect from a fantasy series. It's really been hit or miss with people I suggest it to. Definitely worth a read. Another cool aspect is that he is currently working on another trilogy that takes place in the same world as PoN twenty years later. I personally love his books and find them to be well worth the brainpower required to read them.

The Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson is another awesome series that actually does kinda come close in scope to PoN's world building. Now that I sit and ponder, it might even surpass PoN, as MBotF clocks in around nine or ten books if I recall correctly. Great characters abound. Also well worth the read. Long, long books though.

...and if you havent read Frank Herbert's Dune series...do that too. Just stay away from the ****e his son wrote in that same universe.

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Old 10-10-2013, 03:05 AM   #1850
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I've heard a lot of good things about Glenn Cooks' The Black Company. Has anyone read it or the series as a whole?
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