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Old 04-14-2014, 10:58 PM   #1826
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Rip-off is an interesting term, seeing as the journey isn't finished yet. Regardless, I get the feeling that you lack the attention span required to read a book over two hundred pages.
I was a lit student. I've read Ulysses several times. I'm writing a novel. Try again.

Bran is a half-assed Frodo. I'd rather we just go no-ass.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:13 PM   #1827
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What more could they show from Bran's storyline? They've hit all the major points. They'll spend some time this season on the journey there. I suppose they've got to introduce Coldhands... That's the part I'm most interested in seeing how they handle. And then the season will end with Bran reaching the tree. Then I'd expect season five to follow Bran's schooling by the children of the forest and Brynden Rivers.

Now here is my theory of what happens with Bran's storyline after Season 5... I'm trying to figure out how they might work this exactly, but we all know that at the rate the show is going, HBO is going to catch up with the books. But there's a lot of story to tell without running over GRRM, and the way to stitch this together is through Bran's experience with Blood Raven and greenseeing.

I expect the last thing we see of Bran in season 5 will be the vision where he sees Ned bring back Jon Snow. But there is more - Bran continues to see further and further back into the past. So why not extrapolate that over an entire season to show the roots of Robert's Rebellion? Of course, that's a huge risk and it might take at least two seasons to do. The more I think about it, the more logistically difficult it sounds. But I still like the idea. Nothing like it has ever happened in television history - they'd have to replace the entire cast for a season or two, and then get them all back.

Forget it... as awesome as it sounds to me, it's probably not possible.
Wow - that would be.. Ambitious, to say the least.

I do think there is a concerted effort afoot to rush Bran's story arc along because, as others have pointed out, that young man is growing like a weed. Once they have him safely ensconced on his "throne", it doesn't matter how big he gets. They can cover him with moss, and his facial features are all that will matter. And if his dream state, alter ego is becoming quite princely, well, all the better.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:28 PM   #1828
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I was a lit student. I've read Ulysses several times. I'm writing a novel. Try again.

Bran is a half-assed Frodo. I'd rather we just go no-ass.

Meh. Not buying it. You could easily say that anyone who goes on a journey is a half-assed Frodo. But Frodo is not where Bran's story has been or is even going.

Bran's story seems to be one of a narrator who will fill in gaps for us that no other character could fill in. I supect when it's all said and done, it will be Bran who reveals Jon Snow's parentage, and other mysteries. If I'm right, Bran's character is brilliant because he allows GRRM to avoid some form of Deus ex Machina as he unfolds the tale.

The story would be worse off without Bran.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:07 AM   #1829
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I was a lit student. I've read Ulysses several times. I'm writing a novel. Try again.

Bran is a half-assed Frodo. I'd rather we just go no-ass.
Ulysses is a half-assed Odysseus. Oh wait...
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:27 AM   #1830
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I'm going to at least give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend that by "Odysseus" you actually meant "The Odyssey."

I bring up Ulysses because you decided to bring up attention span for no reason. Most people who've read all the Song of Fire and Ice books multiple times would quit on Ulysses within ten pages.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:35 AM   #1831
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Meh. Not buying it. You could easily say that anyone who goes on a journey is a half-assed Frodo. But Frodo is not where Bran's story has been or is even going.
he is an unassuming youngster in a fantasy novel carrying a burden (and a traveling party) into the heart of the territory of a supernatural enemy. that he is looking for something rather than traveling toward a fixed location is pretty inconsequential.

I could do without the zombies entirely, if we're making wishes.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:59 AM   #1832
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he is an unassuming youngster in a fantasy novel carrying a burden (and a traveling party) into the heart of the territory of a supernatural enemy. that he is looking for something rather than traveling toward a fixed location is pretty inconsequential.

I could do without the zombies entirely, if we're making wishes.
Carrying a burden? What burden? There's no ring of power here. He is his own burden.

He's crippled kid who is having dreams that lead him to believe that he will somehow be made whole if he reaches his destination. He knows nothing of a supernatural enemy. He doesn't have any real belief that the weight of the world is on his shoulders. He's a kid who can put his thoughts into the body of his pet wolf. THAT is his real struggle right now - keeping his humanity vs. losing himself in his animal and living whole once again.

To equate this to 'Bran = Frodo, end of story' is unimpressive for someone who fancies themselves with a strong lit background. It's comically simplistic and misses so many compelling aspects that have made Bran into a favorite for so many readers.

Bran is being faced with a lot of seemingly innocuous morality questions that ultimately have more impact than he can imagine. It's nothing as cut and dried as "use the ring, become evil; destroy the ring, remain good." Bran's path is a lot more complex as he struggles with losing his identity AND losing his humanity, all while on a quest to try and become whole again. Bran isn't thinking about saving the world. He's thinking about becoming a great knight. Ultimately, he's going to be faced with the decision of losing his mortality and becoming one of the initiated old gods - a proposition that his character is struggling with coming to grips with.

I can't hardly understand how someone could hold the opinion that Bran offers nothing new to literature and he'd have best been left out of the story. He's got one of the more compelling story lines in all of fantasy writing, with dilemmas that no other character in the genre has faced, and there's still so much to learn about his decisions.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:16 AM   #1833
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He's a kid who can put his thoughts into the body of his pet wolf. THAT is his real struggle right now - keeping his humanity vs. losing himself in his animal and living whole once again.
and that's the burden. it is in fact the same burden as Frodo has with the ring. when he puts on the ring, he is free. he gains powers. it feels good. but he must control himself against his baser instincts, lest he lose his humanity. sound familiar? he even has one companion who understands, same as Bran.

and Bran is constantly being told that he's important.

to me, it's a bore. it's tacked on to a world that doesn't need it, which is how I feel about everything in the series involving zombies and Dire Fates and Blah and Magic and More Blah Gods Blah Blah Spooky Foreshadowing

unfortunately it's all sitting there in the title of the whole thing, so I'm probably ****ed in the end. plop me in King's Landing and its companion cities and I'm good to go. this isn't great literature, it's well done pulp. so put down the joseph campbell for dummies primer and keep it rolling, george.

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Old 04-15-2014, 02:23 AM   #1834
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Here we have Frodo and Sam Gamgee:



They went on an adventure to a magical land (Colorado), carrying a burden (briefcase full of money), in a strange world full of enemies. While on their journey to release themselves of the heavy load, they are pursued by enemies who would use it for their own purposes. Along the way, they pick up an enemy who cons them into taking him along on their quest - he is ultimately killed. At the bleakest part of their journey, Frodo banishes Sam from his company, but the two are reunited when Sam Gamgee's indomitable spirit proves to be an overwhelming force that Frodo cannot resist. The combo ultimately reach their destination and succeed over the dark forces, against all odds.

This story has a lot more in common with Frodo than Bran's story does.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:36 AM   #1835
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I think Headley plays the role well enough. Her anger and rage seems to me at least to be always JUST contained. Like it's taking all of her energy to not completely and utterly fly off the handle.

Her reaction to Joffrey choking out felt like the dam burst. I expect her to go full on crazy town. I do think that the actress who played Cat Stark did a better job of conveying the character. Headley's is not wrong, but not as forceful as it can be. At least to this point.

That's the issue here though. This is one of the few times where Martin gets literary revenge on a family and Cat Stark (whom I've always disliked for some reason) totally nailed it despite my wondrous ability to nitpick. Lena was supposed to be the same and honestly, Jaime looked more upset than she did at losing her child. She was like a 3 there and then looks at Tyrion and goes up to an 11 and that seemed forced even there.

Lena Headey takes "sinister" and "cruelty" to a new level in this show but man does she just **** the bed when it comes to emotion (with the exception of her story of her lone Baratheon child who died, imo).
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:39 AM   #1836
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Building off this... Bloodraven may have been responsible for Jon's entire creation.

We know Bloodraven went to the wall with Maester Aemon.

We know Bloodraven become Lord Commander and at some point left for the cave.

Bloodraven would have been exposed to the Starks' deepest thoughts through prayers all along.

Aemon communicated back and forth with Rhaegar.

So ultimately, Bloodraven had access to both Lyanna and Rhaegar, and Aemon certainly played a pivotal roll in elevating Jon Snow's status when he finally arrived at the wall.

1000 and 1, for sure.
Interesting theory. So then are you implying he is a supernatural Littlefinger or what exactly on the spectrum of good guy/bad guy is he then in your opinion?
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:50 AM   #1837
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I suppose they've got to introduce Coldhands... That's the part I'm most interested in seeing how they handle. And then the season will end with Bran reaching the tree.
Is there some new information that has you thinking he will show up?
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:53 AM   #1838
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I agree with your post, I just wanted to point out that Martin LOVES the Lannisters and has said that if he were in Westeros, he would've been a Lannister, himself.
I hadn't heard that but it makes way too much sense. It must have killed him to do what he did later in the series though.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:54 AM   #1839
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Bran is Frodo because they are both going somewhere and extralife doesn't like both of them so they are the same.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:57 AM   #1840
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Wierd that people would discuss a show they don't like. Once I don't like a show I never watch it again or want to talk about it. To find much wrong with GOT you most likely call everything crap on TV, because compared to most of what is out there GOT is miles ahead.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:09 AM   #1841
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Interesting theory. So then are you implying he is a supernatural Littlefinger or what exactly on the spectrum of good guy/bad guy is he then in your opinion?
If you read the tales of Dunk and Egg, you find that Blood Raven makes Littlefinger look like Podrick Payne.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:32 AM   #1842
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If you read the tales of Dunk and Egg, you find that Blood Raven makes Littlefinger look like Podrick Payne.
So Blood Raven has a really tiny penis?
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:53 AM   #1843
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Is there some new information that has you thinking he will show up?
I've seen nothing. I just can't hardly believe they would leave him entirely out of the story given how much theorizing his character has inspired among the book readers.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:56 AM   #1844
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So Blood Raven has a really tiny penis?
It's actually detachable.
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:30 AM   #1845
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It's actually detachable.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:12 PM   #1846
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I'm going to at least give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend that by "Odysseus" you actually meant "The Odyssey."

I bring up Ulysses because you decided to bring up attention span for no reason. Most people who've read all the Song of Fire and Ice books multiple times would quit on Ulysses within ten pages.
In actuality I was just ****ing around with you because I don't agree with your opinion of Bran (In the books)

I was referring to the characters name in Roman and Greek. Not the name of the book.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:20 PM   #1847
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Could also be Martin's way of rolling his eyes and getting people to stfu about Coldhands and focus on the actual story.
No kidding. "Oh he's Benjen! Oh he's Bloodraven, who was for-ordained to choose Azor Ahai! Oh he's the Night's King still kicking around!"

I honestly think there are more interesting story arcs. Either we'll find out and be like "Oh! ok." and carry on, or we'll watch Jon Snow get turned into a white Walker and be leading the others in a war AGAINST Daenerys and Cold Hands becomes his minion and ultimately a non-factor.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:22 PM   #1848
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Kaylore. . . oathbreaaaakaer.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:25 PM   #1849
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Wierd that people would discuss a show they don't like. Once I don't like a show I never watch it again or want to talk about it. To find much wrong with GOT you most likely call everything crap on TV, because compared to most of what is out there GOT is miles ahead.
where did I say I didn't like the show? I wasn't aware I had to be a slavish fanboy in order to enjoy something.

but then again, this is the internet.
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:23 PM   #1850
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I was pretty in dissapointed in Tue joffery whacking. Interesting how the tyrion line goes forward
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