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Old 08-07-2013, 06:11 AM   #26
TonyR
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Then why are Democrats ... refusing to control the border? All that dirt cheap labor coming over here is lowering American wages and inflating American unemployment.
Read. Learn.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/st...r-obama-previ/
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:14 AM   #27
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It's called reading between the lines.
Also known as "making **** up."
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:18 AM   #28
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There are no Democrat corporate overlords? Then why are Democrats the primary culprits behind the amnesty scheme, refusing to control the border? All that dirt cheap labor coming over here is lowering American wages and inflating American unemployment.

But Democrats aren't fat cats and are for the worker?

Maybe for the Mexican worker...
Actually, the Right Wing destruction of the American economy was the most successful immigration reduction policy. Good work!
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:41 AM   #29
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There are no Democrat corporate overlords? Then why are Democrats the primary culprits behind the amnesty scheme, refusing to control the border? All that dirt cheap labor coming over here is lowering American wages and inflating American unemployment.

But Democrats aren't fat cats and are for the worker?

Maybe for the Mexican worker...
You've obviously been brainwashed by the party of no. They want you to always have someone to blame.Tell me yuk yuk, who is going to build your fence? Americans or mexicans? It's funny that on one hand you say that people should get off their butts and work, yet on the other you blame immigrants for taking their jobs? make up your mind.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:16 AM   #30
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You've obviously been brainwashed by the party of no. They want you to always have someone to blame.Tell me yuk yuk, who is going to build your fence? Americans or mexicans? It's funny that on one hand you say that people should get off their butts and work, yet on the other you blame immigrants for taking their jobs? make up your mind.
He and many other conservatives are under the delusion that there are Americans just lining up for those jobs. When the fact of the matter is that immigrant labor is the only demographic willing to do the work. At any price.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:01 AM   #31
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Poor GOP. If only they had a propaganda arm or a media mogul that could make a movie about Rand Paul, or Cruz, or whatever flavor-of-the-month whack job they support this week. That's the problem with the GOP. They have such a wealth of whackos to choose from that they can't make up their minds.

It's so tough, always being the victims.
Just curious, were Democrats playing the victim when they blacklisted Fox News for their debates?
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:10 AM   #32
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He and many other conservatives are under the delusion that there are Americans just lining up for those jobs. When the fact of the matter is that immigrant labor is the only demographic willing to do the work. At any price.
It's funny how you kids lament Walmart wages, but then say there are all these jobs Americans won't do that in reality only pay Walmart wages.

Give me an even-dollar choice between cashing people out at Wally World or picking Strawberries in the heat all day and I'll pick Wally World every time. The difference is, illegal and/or spanglish-speaking immigrants have a lot tougher time landing jobs working with and around the public. So they take what they can get. If they weren't available, fruit picking wages would rise closer to the mythical "living wage" so many clamor for but few do anything about.

But this idea that there are just some tasks socioeconomically beneath the otherwise-starving American is pretty comical when you think about it.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:17 AM   #33
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It's funny how you kids lament Walmart wages, but then say there are all these jobs Americans won't do that in reality only pay Walmart wages.

Give me an even-dollar choice between cashing people out at Wally World or picking Strawberries in the heat all day and I'll pick Wally World every time. The difference is, illegal and/or spanglish-speaking immigrants have a lot tougher time landing jobs working with and around the public. So they take what they can get. If they weren't available, fruit picking wages would rise closer to the mythical "living wage" so many clamor for but few do anything about.

But this idea that there are just some tasks socioeconomically beneath the otherwise-starving American is pretty comical when you think about it.
Except many of the "fruit picking jobs" you refer to pay better than wal mart. Two of them hilighted during testimony on cspan were $10.50 and $13 an hour. I know many of the construction jobs my company hired for were quite well-paying, as well.

Last edited by houghtam; 08-07-2013 at 10:20 AM..
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:28 AM   #34
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Except many of the "fruit picking jobs" you refer to pay better than wal mart. Two of them hilighted during testimony on cspan were $10.50 and $13 an hour. I know many of the construction jobs my company hired for were quite well-paying, as well.
Uh huh.

http://migration.ucdavis.edu/rmn/more.php?id=1596_0_5_0

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Strawberry fields are picked by hand multiple times, often every three days. An average 1,000 hours of harvest labor is required to harvest a typical acre of strawberries, representing half of the $19,000 cost of production. Pickers are paid hourly wages when yields are low, usually the minimum wage of $8 an hour or a bit more. During peak periods, most receive a piece rate wage, often $1.50 to pick a tray containing 12 pints, plus an hourly wage.

The best strawberry pickers earn $10 to $12 an hour during the peak season, but most earn less. In surveys of farm employers, strawberry workers have the lowest average hourly earnings, an average $9.13 an hour in 2007, lower than the average $9.31 for employees of labor contractors and the $10.27 average of all crop workers. Reasons for low strawberry wages may include the long season, the ability of families to work together and, because the work involves bending rather than climbing trees, more older workers and women, which increases the pool of workers available to harvest berries, holding down wages.
Basically minimum wage or a hair above. Like I said, Wally World wages.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:32 AM   #35
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http://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-employees-pay

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The average Walmart "associate," Wake Up Walmart reports, makes $11.75 an hour. That's $20,744 per year. Those wages are slightly below the national average for retail employees, which is $12.04 an hour.
Hmmm. Which to choose, which to choose.

Bent over picking berries all day in 90 degree heat, or standing around the Air Conditioned Electronics department with my thumb up my ass. Guess it's my inborn American Programming that drives me to one over the other.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:15 AM   #36
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Just curious, were Democrats playing the victim when they blacklisted Fox News for their debates?
An equivalency between slanted coverage like NBC's and the out and out propaganda of Fox News exists only in the minds of Right Wingers. Every academic media expert I've seen considers Fox News the propaganda wing of the Republican Party. It's blatant. It's obvious. To try and argue that "Oh, the rest of media is just like that on the other side," is just ignorant bull****. It also happens to be one of the propaganda messages that Fox is continuously spewing out and that their sheep keep lapping up.
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:07 PM   #37
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An equivalency between slanted coverage like NBC's and the out and out propaganda of Fox News exists only in the minds of Right Wingers. Every academic media expert I've seen considers Fox News the propaganda wing of the Republican Party. It's blatant. It's obvious. To try and argue that "Oh, the rest of media is just like that on the other side," is just ignorant bull****. It also happens to be one of the propaganda messages that Fox is continuously spewing out and that their sheep keep lapping up.
Keep smokin' that pipe, Roh

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Old 08-07-2013, 01:02 PM   #38
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http://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-employees-pay



Hmmm. Which to choose, which to choose.

Bent over picking berries all day in 90 degree heat, or standing around the Air Conditioned Electronics department with my thumb up my ass. Guess it's my inborn American Programming that drives me to one over the other.
and yet you dipshets blame the mexicans. Gotta blame someone right?
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:19 PM   #39
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Agricultural work in some capacity would be solid for everyone.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:31 PM   #40
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and yet you dipshets blame the mexicans. Gotta blame someone right?
I don't blame Mexicans at all. Just pointing out that the "Living Wage" argument doesn't reconcile well with the uncontrolled influx of 3rd world (sorry Baja ) labor.

In an honest labor market, in terms of honoring commitments made (like the minimum wage), there would be no way you could get away with paying someone anywhere near minimum wage to manually pick fruit all day. It's a suck job, and in a truly open market, you'd have to pay much higher wages to get it done.

But through the magic of illegal immigration, we implement a defacto caste system. And for the most part, big agriculture reaps what we sow.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:05 PM   #41
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You've obviously been brainwashed by the party of no. They want you to always have someone to blame.Tell me yuk yuk, who is going to build your fence? Americans or mexicans? It's funny that on one hand you say that people should get off their butts and work, yet on the other you blame immigrants for taking their jobs? make up your mind.
Thank you so kindly for parroting the liberal narrative. Teh party of no and sheeeet!!

Agencies in both the Clinton and Obama administrations have stated that mass immigration - legal not counting illegal - is lowering American wages and increasing American unemployment and harming the most vulnerable. This shouldn't take a degree in rocket science to notice. How do American workers benefit when historically high-paying jobs such as manufacturing are sent to China and cheaper labor is brought from Mexico and elsewhere?

My stance on mass migration hasn't changed one lick from when it formed when I was a Marxist. It damages the countries migrants leave and it damages the countries they migrate to. Needed brains and hands are leaving nations that need them to travel thousands of miles to be exploited for cheap labor and super profit. Period.

Clinton's Jordan Commission on immigration came out to REDUCING legal immigration levels and enforcing the border. Both are called "radical," "racist," and "xenophobic" today, so I guess Bill Clinton's Democratic black lesbian feminist Congresswoman Barbara Jordan was both of those?



The xenophobic, racist black Democrat lesbian feminist also stated with regard to amnesty that,

The legalized have already received special treatment in obtaining amnesty. To further reward their earlier illegal entry by giving equal or higher priority to the entry of their relatives sends the wrong message at a time in which the U.S. must obtain greater control over unauthorized entry.

And God forbid,

Employers should demonstrate that they have engaged in appropriate attempts to find a qualified U.S. worker using normal company recruitment procedures that meet industry-wide standards and offering wages that are at least 5 percent above the prevailing wage.

AND now we have the Obama administration's Congressional Budget Office and Joint Committee on Taxation release a report that the "gang of 8" amnesty (which IS what it is) would screw over American workers --

Taking into account all of those flows of new immigrants, CBO and JCT expect that a greater number of immigrants with lower skills than with higher skills would be added to the workforce, slightly pushing down the average wage for the labor force as a whole, other things being equal...

Such grant of legal status will likely disproportionately harm lower-skilled African-Americans by making it more difficult for them to obtain employment and depressing their wages when they do obtain employment.

Ach! And guess what? It's happening in Canada, too.


DUH really? We have to be told the flipping OBVIOUS?

/facepalm
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:08 PM   #42
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I don't blame Mexicans at all. Just pointing out that the "Living Wage" argument doesn't reconcile well with the uncontrolled influx of 3rd world (sorry Baja ) labor.

In an honest labor market, in terms of honoring commitments made (like the minimum wage), there would be no way you could get away with paying someone anywhere near minimum wage to manually pick fruit all day. It's a suck job, and in a truly open market, you'd have to pay much higher wages to get it done.

But through the magic of illegal immigration, we implement a defacto caste system. And for the most part, big agriculture reaps what we sow.
We have the H2A Agricultural Visa program which requires migrant farm workers to be paid at least the federal minimum wage. Farm labor and illegal immigration are two different things, in spite of the amnesty lobby's efforts to conflate the two to erect the "but we'll starve" fear tactic.

Aside from that, why aren't we using able-bodied nonviolent criminals for this stuff? Liberal complaints, probably. The usual 'tards.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:10 PM   #43
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Agricultural work in some capacity would be solid for everyone.
Bingo, even if as a temporary summer job for teens. Modern Americans are all too often spoiled and lazy. Office workers should also be cleaning their own toilets.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:18 PM   #44
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Thank you so kindly for parroting the liberal narrative. Teh party of no and sheeeet!!

Agencies in both the Clinton and Obama administrations have stated that mass immigration - legal not counting illegal - is lowering American wages and increasing American unemployment and harming the most vulnerable. This shouldn't take a degree in rocket science to notice. How do American workers benefit when historically high-paying jobs such as manufacturing are sent to China and cheaper labor is brought from Mexico and elsewhere?

My stance on mass migration hasn't changed one lick from when it formed when I was a Marxist. It damages the countries migrants leave and it damages the countries they migrate to. Needed brains and hands are leaving nations that need them to travel thousands of miles to be exploited for cheap labor and super profit. Period.

Clinton's Jordan Commission on immigration came out to REDUCING legal immigration levels and enforcing the border. Both are called "radical," "racist," and "xenophobic" today, so I guess Bill Clinton's Democratic black lesbian feminist Congresswoman Barbara Jordan was both of those?



The xenophobic, racist black Democrat lesbian feminist also stated with regard to amnesty that,

The legalized have already received special treatment in obtaining amnesty. To further reward their earlier illegal entry by giving equal or higher priority to the entry of their relatives sends the wrong message at a time in which the U.S. must obtain greater control over unauthorized entry.

And God forbid,

Employers should demonstrate that they have engaged in appropriate attempts to find a qualified U.S. worker using normal company recruitment procedures that meet industry-wide standards and offering wages that are at least 5 percent above the prevailing wage.

AND now we have the Obama administration's Congressional Budget Office and Joint Committee on Taxation release a report that the "gang of 8" amnesty (which IS what it is) would screw over American workers --

Taking into account all of those flows of new immigrants, CBO and JCT expect that a greater number of immigrants with lower skills than with higher skills would be added to the workforce, slightly pushing down the average wage for the labor force as a whole, other things being equal...

Such grant of legal status will likely disproportionately harm lower-skilled African-Americans by making it more difficult for them to obtain employment and depressing their wages when they do obtain employment.

Ach! And guess what? It's happening in Canada, too.


DUH really? We have to be told the flipping OBVIOUS?

/facepalm
from your link:

"Use of fences to reduce border violence and facilitate enforcement.
However, the Commission does not support the erection
of extraordinary physical barriers, such as unscaleable
walls, unless needed as a last resort to stop violence when
other means have proved ineffective.
Fences have been used
effectively in San Diego to reduce border violence, deter illegal
aliens from running across the interstate highway"

As for the gang of 8 doomsday scenario:

First what does the CBO report actually say about wages? The headline conclusion is that wages would be 0.1 percent lower in 2023 but 0.5 percent higher in 2033 than under current law:

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Old 08-07-2013, 03:53 PM   #45
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Agricultural work in some capacity would be solid for everyone.
That's what Mao thought.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:25 PM   #46
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First what does the CBO report actually say about wages? The headline conclusion is that wages would be 0.1 percent lower in 2023 but 0.5 percent higher in 2033 than under current law:

The Jordan commission never said to leave the border open, for one thing. Secondly, it and the more recent CBO have both agreed that American wages have been and are being depressed. What does this have to do with a speculative report on future wages and what about these speculations on future wages justifies the negative impact mass migration is having on them now? A carrot on a stick that someday in about 2 decades you'll make up for some of the ground you've lost in the past 30+ years?
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:25 PM   #47
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That's what Mao thought.
So did Hitler IIRC.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:44 PM   #48
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"CNN Films is planning a feature-length documentary film on the former first lady, looking at her professional and personal life. It will be led by Oscar-winning director and producer Charles Ferguson and is expected to air in 2014.NBC has announced a miniseries called "Hillary," starring actress Diane Lane. No air date has been announced but it is timed to be released before the 2016 presidential election. NBC has said the four-hour miniseries will follow Clinton's life and career from 1998 to the present."

Sounds like the fix is in. The CFR is very, very happy!

Lets boil it down to a 30 sec review:

Wife of Arkansas Governor: Whitewater scandal;
Wife of Mister President: Foster murder, Travelgate and Lewinsky scandals;
Senator of New York: Strongly supported Iraq and Afghanistan invasions; supported establishment of Media Matters and Center for American Progress; supported bailout of too big to fail banks;
Secretary of State: Reset Russian relations; subject of Wikileaks expose; supported Afghanistan surge; Benghazi scandal. famous "what does it matter speech?"; convenient hospitalization;
Since: paid $200,000 PER speech.

Yeah, she's ready to lead us all.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:12 PM   #49
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"CNN Films is planning a feature-length documentary film on the former first lady, looking at her professional and personal life. It will be led by Oscar-winning director and producer Charles Ferguson and is expected to air in 2014.NBC has announced a miniseries called "Hillary," starring actress Diane Lane. No air date has been announced but it is timed to be released before the 2016 presidential election. NBC has said the four-hour miniseries will follow Clinton's life and career from 1998 to the present."

Sounds like the fix is in. The CFR is very, very happy!

Lets boil it down to a 30 sec review:

Wife of Arkansas Governor: Whitewater scandal;
Wife of Mister President: Foster murder, Travelgate and Lewinsky scandals;
Senator of New York: Strongly supported Iraq and Afghanistan invasions; supported establishment of Media Matters and Center for American Progress; supported bailout of too big to fail banks;
Secretary of State: Reset Russian relations; subject of Wikileaks expose; supported Afghanistan surge; Benghazi scandal. famous "what does it matter speech?"; convenient hospitalization;
Since: paid $200,000 PER speech.

Yeah, she's ready to lead us all.
You're a cornucopia of right-wing fantasies.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:29 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by orinjkrush View Post
"CNN Films is planning a feature-length documentary film on the former first lady, looking at her professional and personal life. It will be led by Oscar-winning director and producer Charles Ferguson and is expected to air in 2014.NBC has announced a miniseries called "Hillary," starring actress Diane Lane. No air date has been announced but it is timed to be released before the 2016 presidential election. NBC has said the four-hour miniseries will follow Clinton's life and career from 1998 to the present."

Sounds like the fix is in. The CFR is very, very happy!

Lets boil it down to a 30 sec review:

Wife of Arkansas Governor: Whitewater scandal;
Wife of Mister President: Foster murder, Travelgate and Lewinsky scandals;
Senator of New York: Strongly supported Iraq and Afghanistan invasions; supported establishment of Media Matters and Center for American Progress; supported bailout of too big to fail banks;
Secretary of State: Reset Russian relations; subject of Wikileaks expose; supported Afghanistan surge; Benghazi scandal. famous "what does it matter speech?"; convenient hospitalization;
Since: paid $200,000 PER speech.

Yeah, she's ready to lead us all.
I'm about as tired of the Clintons as I am of the Bushes.
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