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Old 07-31-2013, 01:09 PM   #26
Fedaykin
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Republicans (while holding the power of the purse) are naturally going to oppose anything that expands the size and scope of (our record-sized) government. Which is exactly what Obama proposes to do. If the President really wanted flatter tax rates, he'd make his proposal at least revenue-neutral and leave the campaign-bundler pork out of it.
Again, you're lost. More fiar (i.e. flatter) taxes is exactly what this would produce. As far as not being revenue neutral, even your own links talk about how similar proposals that were revenue neutral were also blocked for the sake of being blocked despite being something the republicans claim to support (a more fair tax code to support small businesses).

This would be a good deal that both R's and D's could work together on. More fair taxes to help out small businesses, and an investment in infrastructure that is sorely needed and could be done much more effectively with a honest effort (by both parties) to do so.

Face it. This president could propose pretty much anything and the R's would fight it -- just because he proposed it.
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Old 07-31-2013, 01:21 PM   #27
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As far as the proposal being non-revenue neutral. I am completely unsympathetic. Corporate tax revenue as a % of GPD is currently at record lows (less than 50% of the average since 1950), and not just because of the recession.

This, of course, is why the difference between effective tax rate, and marginal tax rate (that Beavis completely fails to comprehend) is talked about all the time. A top marginal tax rate of 35% is almost completely meaningless as a indicator of actual tax rate (it only defines an upper limit).

Small businesses that can't take advantage of the spagetti code that is the current tax code pay much closer to that maximum than the giant corporations that can pay an army of tax experts to exploit that. Lower and marginal rates and remove loopholes, and that difference gets a bit smaller.

Raise some extra revenue (almost entirely from the coffers of the most exploitative businesses) and it's even better.
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Old 07-31-2013, 01:31 PM   #28
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This, of course, is why the difference between effective tax rate, and marginal tax rate (that Beavis completely fails to comprehend) is talked about all the time. A top marginal tax rate of 35% is almost completely meaningless as a indicator of actual tax rate (it only defines an upper limit).
My understanding aside, just curious... if it makes so much sense, why does the President feel the need to attach it to yet another federal spending spree? (while federal spending vs GDP remains at a record pace)
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Old 07-31-2013, 01:48 PM   #29
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because Obama is big corporation's dandy boy.
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Old 07-31-2013, 01:49 PM   #30
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Re OP title;

What else is new.
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Old 07-31-2013, 01:54 PM   #31
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My understanding aside, just curious... if it makes so much sense, why does the President feel the need to attach it to yet another federal spending spree? (while federal spending vs GDP remains at a record pace)
What do you see as wrong with making the rate small businesses pay closer to the rate huge corporations pay, regardless of the overall rate?
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:09 PM   #32
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Republicans (while holding the power of the purse) are naturally going to oppose anything that expands the size and scope of (our record-sized) government. Which is exactly what Obama proposes to do. If the President really wanted flatter tax rates, he'd make his proposal at least revenue-neutral and leave the campaign-bundler pork out of it.
both dubya and your hero raygun grew gubmint and deficits.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:11 PM   #33
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What do you see as wrong with making the rate small businesses pay closer to the rate huge corporations pay, regardless of the overall rate?
Yeah, the best solution to disparate levels of punishment is to increase the amount of punishment so it can be more evenly spread.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:15 PM   #34
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both dubya and your hero raygun grew gubmint and deficits.
Ultimately, this stuff is up to Congress. Obama had control of it ('til he blew it on the ACA trainwreck) Reagan never did.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:31 PM   #35
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Getting re-elected will do that to a guy.

Obama will make 50-100 million on the back end.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:04 PM   #36
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My understanding aside, just curious... if it makes so much sense, why does the President feel the need to attach it to yet another federal spending spree? (while federal spending vs GDP remains at a record pace)
That is one most worthless metrics ever to use when discussing policies and economy. The president is proposing additional federal funding because we have major problems (piss poor infrastructure, horrible aircraft control system, worthless weather predication tools, getting beat by the Germans on the 3d Metallic Printer Manufacturing and basic RD) that need public funds to address and all those project will also boost private sector growth. WVU and others have published peer reviewed studies that for every dollar spent by Federal Government you spent on fixing infrastructure, you get 3 dollar generate in the secondary markets support those projects.

Also for the record if you are small business owner and you are tying your personnel income to the business then you need to relook at your operations. Because for all small businesses I been apart of or know, no owner if they have brain would get their business taxed at 39% level.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:08 PM   #37
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Yeah, the best solution to disparate levels of punishment is to increase the amount of punishment so it can be more evenly spread.
A small step toward leveling the playing field between businesses of various sizes is what this would do. That you are so desperate to remain willfully ignorant and to frame it as something else is just highlighting your own partisanship.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:23 PM   #38
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A small step toward leveling the playing field between businesses of various sizes is what this would do. That you are so desperate to remain willfully ignorant and to frame it as something else is just highlighting your own partisanship.
Leveling the playing field between American companies will have little impact on keeping jobs onshore. Especially if that 'leveling' involves an even larger federal haircut.

Our real competition is international. In the real world, you have to worry about the taxes our corporations pay vs what they'd pay if they moved (or moved profits at least) outside the country. "Level" the field for American companies by further burying a select group of them, and all you really accomplish is rewarding their foreign competition. But keep telling us that the solution to all our problems is Churchill's Equal Sharing of Misery. In reality, competitiveness is most important.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:29 PM   #39
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So for 10 years all weve heard from democrats is how big business needs to pay, they should pay more. We see the righties sticking to the same old same old of finding something wrong with anything obozo does, and we see the lefties drinking the koolaid and supporting it, what the heck happened to corporations need to pay more ? if this was bush doing this you guys would be outraged, yet here you are talking about how great this is. All thats missing is labf with some stupid cartoon showing how much better things have gotten since the savior took office.
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:35 AM   #40
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Nobody seems to be able to just lay their cards on the table. This is what it's all about: Corporations want all the benefits of doing business in the U.S., they just don't want to pay for it.
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Old 08-01-2013, 07:16 AM   #41
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Nobody seems to be able to just lay their cards on the table. This is what it's all about: Corporations want all the benefits of doing business in the U.S., they just don't want to pay for it.
Benefits such as...?
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Old 08-01-2013, 07:38 AM   #42
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Benefits such as...?
I thought you lived in the U.S.?
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Old 08-01-2013, 07:52 AM   #43
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I thought you lived in the U.S.?
You can live in the US and own a foreign company. We're talking about what benefits a company gains by incorporating in the US.

I want to hear what they are.
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Old 08-01-2013, 07:53 AM   #44
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You can live in the US and own a foreign company. We're talking about what benefits a company gains by incorporating in the US.

I want to hear what they are.
I take it that it is not self-evident to you that America is an "exceptional" country?
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Old 08-01-2013, 07:56 AM   #45
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I take it that it is not self-evident to you that America is an "exceptional" country?
Exceptional in it's foundational principles (which we chip away at daily )

Absolutely.

But the question is how that exceptionality extends to those who file their incorporation paperwork in the US vs say Bermuda or Ireland.

Flesh that out for me. What benefit does that give a company?
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:04 AM   #46
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Exceptional in it's foundational principles (which we chip away at daily )

Absolutely.

But the question is how that exceptionality extends to those who file their incorporation paperwork in the US vs say Bermuda or Ireland.

Flesh that out for me. What benefit does that give a company?
Ahh, I see. So the "exceptional" label is limited to something that took place over two hundred years ago?
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:10 AM   #47
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Benefits such as...?

One of the most efficient & productive labor forces on the planet.

Great distribution systems

Built in market place

One of the best supply lines in the world.

To name a few.

Too bad it is being systematically dismantled by the corporate overlords that not have seized control of the US government.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:12 AM   #48
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One of the most efficient & productive labor forces on the planet.

Great distribution systems

Built in market place

One of the best supply lines in the world.

To name a few.

Too bad it is being systematically dismantled by the corporate overlords that not have seized control of the US government.
Detroit is a microcosm of what global corporatism is doing to America.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:13 AM   #49
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Detroit is a microcosm of what global corporatism is doing to America.
Exactly, and there are plenty more examples on the horizon.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:14 AM   #50
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One of the most efficient & productive labor forces on the planet.

Great distribution systems

Built in market place

One of the best supply lines in the world.

To name a few.

Too bad it is being systematically dismantled by the corporate overlords that not have seized control of the US government.
All of those things are available to foreign companies operating in the US. What reason would they have for seeking incorporation here?
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