The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-10-2013, 02:12 PM   #226
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,949
Default

Former NSA whistleblower says Snowden's expose only scratches the surface..

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle35505.htm
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 02:13 PM   #227
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,949
Default

This guy is saying the NSA has been spying on generals, admirals, congressmen, senators, even supreme court justices...

why? obviously -- for the purpose of blackmail.

And why is the intelligence community NOT being affected by the sequester

Last edited by mhgaffney; 07-10-2013 at 02:16 PM..
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 03:15 PM   #228
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,949
Default

America's NSA 'in bed with' Germany and most others: Snowden

By Stephen Brown

BERLIN | Sun Jul 7, 2013 11:33am EDT


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9660C020130707

(Reuters) - America's National Security Agency works closely with Germany and other Western states on a 'no questions asked'-basis, former NSA employee Edward Snowden said in comments that undermine Chancellor Angela Merkel's indignant talk of "Cold War" tactics.

"They are in bed with the Germans, just like with most other Western states," German magazine Der Spiegel quotes him as saying in an interview published on Sunday that was carried out before he fled to Hong Kong in May and divulged details of extensive secret U.S. surveillance.

"Other agencies don't ask us where we got the information from and we don't ask them. That way they can protect their top politicians from the backlash in case it emerges how massively people's privacy is abused worldwide," he said.

His comments about cooperation with governments overseas, which he said were led by the NSA's Foreign Affairs Directorate, appear to contradict the German government's show of surprise at the scale of the U.S. electronic snooping.

Germany has demanded explanations for Snowden's allegations of large-scale spying by the NSA, and by Britain via a programme codenamed 'Tempora', on their allies including Germany and other European Union states, as well as EU institutions and embassies.

Chancellor Angela Merkel pointed out during President Barack Obama's recent visit that Germany had avoided terrorist attacks thanks to information from allies. But she says there must be limits to the intrusion on privacy and wants this discussed next week in parallel with the start of EU-U.S. free trade talks.

Berlin has alluded repeatedly to "Cold War" tactics - Merkel used the term again on Saturday at a political rally - and has said spying on friends is unacceptable. Her spokesman has said a transatlantic trade deal requires a level of "mutual trust".

ELECTION ISSUE

The domestic intelligence chief has said he knew nothing of such widespread surveillance by the NSA. But German opposition parties - with an eye on September's federal election - insist that somebody in Merkel's office, where the German intelligence agencies are coordinated, must have known what was going on.

The government did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the Der Spiegel report, which follows a report last week in French daily Le Monde saying France also had an extensive surveillance programme.

Der Spiegel has reported that on an average day, the NSA monitored about 20 million German phone connections and 10 million internet data sets, rising to 60 million phone connections on busy days.

Germans are particularly sensitive about eavesdropping because of the intrusive surveillance in the communist German Democratic Republic (GDR) and during the Nazi era.

Snowden, a U.S. citizen, fled in May a few weeks before the details he provided about the NSA were published and is believed to have been holed up in Moscow airport since June 23.

Bolivia offered asylum on Saturday to Snowden, joining leftist allies Venezuela and Nicaragua in defiance of Washington, which is demanding his arrest for divulging details of the secret U.S. spy programs.

Der Spiegel said the interview was conducted while Snowden was living in Hawaii, via encrypted emails with U.S. documentary maker Laura Poitras and hacker Jacob Appelbaum.

Snowden told them that America's closest allies sometimes went even further than the NSA in their zeal for gathering data.
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 01:38 PM   #229
Drunken.Broncoholic
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

According to some in our govt the answer to Russia guarding Snowden is to punish OUR American athletes and boycott the Olympics.

Man this country sucks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 04:40 PM   #230
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,949
Default

Email Exchange Between Edward Snowden and Former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

'I believe you have done the right thing in exposing what I regard as massive violation of the United States constitution'
Beta

By Glenn Greenwald

July 17, 2013 "Information Clearing House
- Former two-term GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire emailed Edward Snowden yesterday [emphasis added]:

Mr. Snowden,

Provided you have not leaked information that would put in harms way any intelligence agent, I believe you have done the right thing in exposing what I regard as massive violation of the United States Constitution.

Having served in the United States Senate for twelve years as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, the Armed Services Committee and the Judiciary Committee, I think I have a good grounding to reach my conclusion.

I wish you well in your efforts to secure asylum and encourage you to persevere.

Kindly acknowledge this message, so that I will know it reached you.

Regards,
Gordon J. Humphrey
Former United States Senator
New Hampshire

After I contacted Sen. Humphrey to confirm its authenticity, he wrote to me [emphasis added]:

Mr. Greenwald,

Yes. It was I who sent the email message to Edward Snowden, thanking him for exposing astonishing violations of the US Constitution and encouraging him to persevere in the search for asylum.

To my knowledge, Mr. Snowden has disclosed only the existence of a program and not details that would place any person in harm's way. I regard him as a courageous whistle-blower.

I object to the monumentally disproportionate campaign being waged by the U.S. Government against Edward Snowden, while no effort is being made to identify, remove from office and bring to justice those officials who have abused power, seriously and repeatedly violating the Constitution of the United States and the rights of millions of unsuspecting citizens.

Americans concerned about the growing arrogance of our government and its increasingly menacing nature should be working to help Mr. Snowden find asylum. Former Members of Congress, especially, should step forward and speak out.

Regards,
Gordon Humphrey

Snowden's reply to Sen. Humphrey:

Mr. Humphrey,

Thank you for your words of support. I only wish more of our lawmakers shared your principles - the actions I've taken would not have been necessary.

The media has distorted my actions and intentions to distract from the substance of Constitutional violations and instead focus on personalities. It seems they believe every modern narrative requires a bad guy. Perhaps it does. Perhaps, in such times, loving one's country means being hated by its government.

If history proves that be so, I will not shy from that hatred. I will not hesitate to wear those charges of villainy for the rest of my life as a civic duty, allowing those governing few who dared not do so themselves to use me as an excuse to right these wrongs.

My intention, which I outlined when this began, is to inform the public as to that which is done in their name and that which is done against them. I remain committed to that. Though reporters and officials may never believe it, I have not provided any information that would harm our people - agent or not - and I have no intention to do so.

Further, no intelligence service - not even our own - has the capacity to compromise the secrets I continue to protect. While it has not been reported in the media, one of my specializations was to teach our people at DIA how to keep such information from being compromised even in the highest threat counter-intelligence environments (i.e. China).

You may rest easy knowing I cannot be coerced into revealing that information, even under torture.

With my thanks for your service to the nation we both love,

Edward Snowden

2013 Guardian News and Media Limited
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 04:47 PM   #231
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 53,930

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CJ Anderson
Default

The media is handling this about as well as they handled the Zimmerman/Martin case.

We're in deep ****.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 05:04 PM   #232
baja
Pat Bowlen
 
baja's Avatar
 
The best owner ever

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 58,809

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chase Vaughn
Default

[QUOTE=Rohirrim;3878592]The media is handling this about as well as they handled the Zimmerman/Martin case.

We're in deep ****.[/QUOTE]


Finally!!!!
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 05:13 PM   #233
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,614

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

I have a feeling if one find out all Snowden knows, not only the level of spying going on in this country, but the double standards of who and when as well which will really make people angry. We have already seen out government picking and choosing based on politics who to target when it comes to the IRS. The NSA will be no different and probably worse.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 05:18 PM   #234
baja
Pat Bowlen
 
baja's Avatar
 
The best owner ever

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 58,809

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chase Vaughn
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
I have a feeling if one find out all Snowden knows, not only the level of spying going on in this country, but the double standards of who and when as well which will really make people angry. We have already seen out government picking and choosing based on politics who to target when it comes to the IRS. The NSA will be no different and probably worse.
What American citizens should be worried about is access to this level of information is all that is needed to black mail and thus control governments, judicial systems and any platform of power. This is the problem with the abuse of this technology not what Joe Shmoe is doing with his first cousin.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 07:17 AM   #235
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

This is rich.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...ata-gathering/

According to the Carney, any Congressional effort to rein in the NSA's secret surveillance needs to be "the product of an informed, open or deliberative process"

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 05:42 PM   #236
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,898

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Funny that a lg majority of beavis heros voted against reigning in the NSA,while majority of dems voted to reign them in.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 11:08 PM   #237
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
Funny that a lg majority of beavis heros voted against reigning in the NSA,while majority of dems voted to reign them in.
Probably warms your little heart to see The Messiah joined arm in arm with Boner, Pelosi and Bachmann in support of your dream security state.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 05:11 AM   #238
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,898

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Probably warms your little heart to see The Messiah joined arm in arm with Boner, Pelosi and Bachmann in support of your dream security state.
Why would it,i'm glad to see dems voting to reign in the NSA. You conservatives yap about evil government all the time,yet your party is always first in line to support/vote for it.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 05:53 AM   #239
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
Why would it,i'm glad to see dems voting to reign in the NSA. You conservatives yap about evil government all the time,yet your party is always first in line to support/vote for it.
There's no legal basis for what they're doing. Its your President and his Imperial interpretation of the law that allows this Constitutional abuse to occur.

Should he resign? Are you on board with that?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 06:43 AM   #240
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,898

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
There's no legal basis for what they're doing. Its your President and his Imperial interpretation of the law that allows this Constitutional abuse to occur.

Should he resign? Are you on board with that?
Then why is your party supporting it?
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 06:45 AM   #241
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
Then why is your party supporting it?
No, no no...Beavis is an independent. He just plays a Republican shill on the internet.

Oh, and here's a link to the votes on the Amash amendment.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml

Last edited by houghtam; 07-25-2013 at 07:48 AM..
houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 08:31 AM   #242
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
Then why is your party supporting it?
It's not about party. I want Boehner removed. I want Cantor removed. I want Bachmann removed. I want Pelosi removed. I want Hoyer removed. I want Obama removed.

See how that works? How about you?

I've already said I'll support anyone who opposes this practice over anyone who conducts it, supports it, or abets it. I'm not usually a one-issue voter. At this critical point in history, I am.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:01 AM   #243
Fedaykin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,903

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
There's no legal basis for what they're doing. Its your President and his Imperial interpretation of the law that allows this Constitutional abuse to occur.

Should he resign? Are you on board with that?
I'm continually amazed at the narrative that tries to imply this only started with Obama, or this particular program for that matter.

Every administration, every legislature is complicit going back at least as far as the 60s -- and that's just for electronic methods. Privacy has been dead a long, long time.
Fedaykin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:11 AM   #244
Arkie
Ring of Famer
 
Arkie's Avatar
 
Say 'what' again, I dare you

Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,267
Default

My dad used to say "Everybody does it, but Nixon got caught."
Arkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:22 AM   #245
mhgaffney
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,949
Default

Nixon was brought down because the CIA wanted him gone. Nixon and the CIA did not get along
mhgaffney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:36 AM   #246
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
I'm continually amazed at the narrative that tries to imply this only started with Obama, or this particular program for that matter.

Every administration, every legislature is complicit going back at least as far as the 60s -- and that's just for electronic methods. Privacy has been dead a long, long time.
But he said its not about party, so...

houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:49 AM   #247
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
I'm continually amazed at the narrative that tries to imply this only started with Obama, or this particular program for that matter.

Every administration, every legislature is complicit going back at least as far as the 60s -- and that's just for electronic methods. Privacy has been dead a long, long time.
I agree, in part. But you can't ignore how much technology has drastically expanded their reach. And to borrow the Nixon analogy, at least when daylight saw what he was really up to, the public was outraged and a corrective course was set.

The most troubling thing about this whole episode isn't that it's been going on. Usurpers will sometimes usurp, after all. The real alarm comes from the widespread indifference. And the our checks and balances essentially shrugging it off. Although I don't think the judiciary has really weighed in yet (with FISA basically being an arm of the administration)
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 11:07 AM   #248
Fedaykin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,903

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
I agree, in part. But you can't ignore how much technology has drastically expanded their reach.
The biggest change in recent time has been social, not technological. The old joke, of course is "The XXX agency is very proud of its new "facebook" application.

Quote:
And to borrow the Nixon analogy, at least when daylight saw what he was really up to, the public was outraged and a corrective course was set. The most troubling thing about this whole episode isn't that it's been going on. Usurpers will sometimes usurp, after all. The real alarm comes from the widespread indifference.

And the our checks and balances essentially shrugging it off. Although I don't think the judiciary has really weighed in yet (with FISA basically being an arm of the administration
I see plenty of public outrage, except when there's something more interesting to bicker about that is. Of course, anyone involved in tech has known this type of thing goes on all the time, so, to our fault, we're a bit numb to it.

And really, the problem isn't lack of outrage outrage, it's fear. This whole country is so damn pants peeing scared of the damn terrorists that they'll roll over for pretty much anything. And the politicians are afraid to take a stand against this sort of this, because they know they'll be crucified for it the next time someone gets harmed in a terror attack.

It's pretty much this:

9/11/PATRIOT Act happens:

Public:Holy ****, we need to DOOOO something
Politicians: Ok, we'll just toss out the 4th, as well as a bunch of other liberties. It'll help us make you safer, and we'll get to oogle hot chicks in the airport line! Err. redact that last part.


PRISM Get's Leaked:

Public: ZOMG, why are you doing all these horrible things?
Politicans: Well, you said you wanted to do something, and no one really complained when we said we were going to do these types of things...

And then, in the future if PRISM is actually taken down:

Some terrorist event:

Public: ZOMG, why didn't we know about this? What is the government doing to protect me?!?!
Politicians: Oh, so scrap the 4th again eh?

and so on and so forth.
Fedaykin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 11:14 AM   #249
Fedaykin
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,903

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

And to be clear:

It's always something we're afraid of, not just terrorists and not just in the last 10 years.

Nips, Krauts, Reds, Long Hairs, Child Predators, Pirates (the digital kind), Drugs, and so on and so forth.
Fedaykin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 11:15 AM   #250
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,898

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
It's not about party. I want Boehner removed. I want Cantor removed. I want Bachmann removed. I want Pelosi removed. I want Hoyer removed. I want Obama removed.

See how that works? How about you?

I've already said I'll support anyone who opposes this practice over anyone who conducts it, supports it, or abets it. I'm not usually a one-issue voter. At this critical point in history, I am.
So I can put you down as a supporter of the majority of dems who voted to reign in the NSA.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:38 AM.


Denver Broncos