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Old 07-12-2013, 09:54 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
It hasn't been proven that his head was being bashed into the concrete. The two ME's had different opinions. Additionally, it's not clear at all that Martin wasn't the one in self-defense mode. Some random, overzealous stranger starts following him in his car, he runs and hides, then the stranger gets out and starts pursuing him on foot. If that's the case, Martin had every reason to fear for his own safety. We only have Zimmerman's word about how the fight started (witnesses only saw after it already commenced). We only have his word that Martin looked "suspicious." But what we do know for sure is that the outcome would have been avoidable if Zimmerman has listened to the 9-11 operator and not pursued.
It doesn't have to be proven in this case. Zimmerman is not suing Martin for the damages to his head. It's up to the prosecution to prove his head wasn't bashed into the sidewalk. Obviously, they can't.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:07 AM   #502
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Had GZ winged Trayvon instead of killing him, Trayvon would be now up for Aggravated Assault.

It doesn't sit well with me that a 17 year old lost his life this way. My first knee-jerk reaction was to put 100% blame on the defendant. It was a tragedy.

Then I looked at the facts presented and it went down to 50%. Then I looked at how the LAW pertains to it and it dropped to zero.

... and yet like most people you want some sort of justice. What would justice look like then? What would it be?

This case is so fascinating and tragic. Full of Racial bias all around, the gun debate, C&C concerns, Stand your ground laws etc, self defense debates. A troubled teen, An over eager neighborhood watch. Holy-crapola batman!!!!

Last edited by Bronco Yoda; 07-12-2013 at 10:10 AM..
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:21 AM   #503
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Originally Posted by Bronco Yoda View Post
Had GZ winged Trayvon instead of killing him, Trayvon would be now up for Aggravated Assault.

It doesn't sit well with me that a 17 year old lost his life this way. My first knee-jerk reaction was to put 100% blame on the defendant. It was a tragedy.

Then I looked at the facts presented and it went down to 50%. Then I looked at how the LAW pertains to it and it dropped to zero.

... and yet like most people you want some sort of justice. What would justice look like then? What would it be?

This case is so fascinating and tragic. Full of Racial bias all around, the gun debate, C&C concerns, Stand your ground laws etc, self defense debates. A troubled teen, An over eager neighborhood watch. Holy-crapola batman!!!!
My guess/pick is it's either man or hung or rather a hung jury on man.

Two reasons: I feel like the jury will think they need to convict him on something and the don't know about the sentencing guidelines with mandatory mins.

If convicted I'd give him 10 years with the ability for release after 6. I think that's fair give the nature of the crime and the evidence.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:37 AM   #504
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The jury will be made aware of what sentence he will get for manslaughter. Geeze people you think the defense won't make them aware of that in closing. They will. They will point out also if you think it was any type of self defense. If you are 50/50 on self defense. If its self defense its not manslaughter. If its not self defense its murder 2. Its that simple IMO.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:38 AM   #505
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Thats whay the lawyers will hammer to the jury to make them realize manslaughter is still a serious crime and hes not guilty of it if you find he acted at all in self defense.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:39 AM   #506
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No, it really doesn't. Most of the evidence supports that Martin was walking home from the store and an overzealous Zimmerman started following him even after Martin started running to safety and the 9-11 operator asked him not to pursue. Zimmerman then exited his car to pursue Martin, got into a fight that he started losing, and then shot Martin. Zimmerman's claims about Martin acting suspicious and attacking him out of the dark aren't corroborated by any other witnesses or evidence.
WRONG! If they kid ran home he never gets caught by fat out of shape Zimmerman.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:39 AM   #507
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If he gets convicted he'll have a number of options for appeal from the text messages to the inclusion of a lessor charge after the trial was concluded.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:48 AM   #508
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If he gets convicted he'll have a number of options for appeal from the text messages to the inclusion of a lessor charge after the trial was concluded.
f

The inclusion of a lesser charge is legit & common practice.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:50 AM   #509
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WRONG! If they kid ran home he never gets caught by fat out of shape Zimmerman.
WRONG! Zimmerman was in good shape at the time, he didn't gain the weight til after.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:52 AM   #510
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f

The inclusion of a lesser charge is legit & common practice.
Before the trial starts. Adding it at the end, regardless of it's practice is bull****, IMO.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:56 AM   #511
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Before the trial starts. Adding it at the end, regardless of it's practice is bull****, IMO.
Unfortunately your opinion doesn't equal actual law.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:00 AM   #512
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Unfortunately your opinion doesn't equal actual law.
Actual law what? It's the judge's decision. There is no law that says this is okay. For all accounts this "The proc was lucky that the judge allowed it."
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:46 AM   #513
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http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_...structions.pdf


there is a link to the jury instructions if anyone is interested in them.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:51 AM   #514
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Unfortunately your opinion doesn't equal actual law.
It is legal but also leads to bad decisions and is talked about a lot as needing to be changed by defense attorneys. The problem is jury has been focused on murder 2, then at last minute they say hey what about manslaughter? Often after jury's are polled (something i have sat in on) the attorneys will often find the took the lessor charge as a compromise with other jurors. Its not about the fact of the case at that point but rather getting the job over with.

Well if you will say its not murder 2, i will say its manslaughter. When maybe it is murder 2, or maybe it isn't either of them.

Many people feel that the govt should have to lay out what they are prosecuting you for and stick to it. Not offer a jury a compromise verdict to salvage an otherwise weak case.

Whatever that i only said it would not be murder 2 so I am going to be right. Also i still feel there is a great chance he gets off on both charges. But women are not logical so who knows. The fact is its either murder 2 or nothing. Its either self defense or its not.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:52 AM   #515
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WRONG! Zimmerman was in good shape at the time, he didn't gain the weight til after.
Wrong had the kid not laid in wait he would have made it home.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:52 AM   #516
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Also Peace testimony from the expert on fitness, his instructor stated his was obese and out of shape.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:14 PM   #517
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If you have a reasonable doubt, you should find George Zimmerman not guilty. If you
have no reasonable doubt, you should find George Zimmerman guilty.


I don't see how anybody can look at the prosecution's case and not have reasonable doubt.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:37 PM   #518
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If you have a reasonable doubt, you should find George Zimmerman not guilty. If you
have no reasonable doubt, you should find George Zimmerman guilty.


I don't see how anybody can look at the prosecution's case and not have reasonable doubt.
Jury's can give some strange decisions Rho. Ones that leave you flabbergasted. Like when a jury awarded a lady who got her legs cut off riding in the back of a pickup truck sued and only got 3 million. Then 4 months later we see a case where someone with a scar on her face and a missing ear got 4 million from a jury. The girl in truck was at a race riding slowly sitting on tailgate. Rear ended by a drunk stadium worker leaving the race.

the other lady attacked by a dog. Seriously 3 million for losing your legs. 4 million for having a scared up left side of face and a missing earlobe. Doesn't that make you say wow?
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:45 PM   #519
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Thats whay the lawyers will hammer to the jury to make them realize manslaughter is still a serious crime and hes not guilty of it if you find he acted at all in self defense.
That would probably be grounds for a mistrial.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:18 PM   #520
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Can you hear the music playing? I can.



question is how many days will it go on.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:27 PM   #521
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Chances this trial would have gotten the coverage it has if Zimmerman was a black man and killed a "white hispanic?" We know the answer to that one. Justice? Please. This is all about race baiting and pimping and keeping the "America is so racist" mantra so liberals can feel good about themselves of being the defenders of black people, all the while their policies keep them in the inner cities with crappy schools and high gang rates and drug use, not to mention high abortion rates. Yeah, have just done so much.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:38 PM   #522
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Wrong had the kid not laid in wait he would have made it home.
Outside of the fact that the kid did not laid in wait,there is nothing wrong with your post.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:45 PM   #523
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Also Peace testimony from the expert on fitness, his instructor stated his was obese and out of shape.
Zimmerman was 185 lbs at his arrest, even his lawyers stated that he's gained 100+ pounds since. 185 lbs isn't obese.
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:05 PM   #524
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The Trayvon Martin Tragedy in an alternate universe:

NIGHT:
(Young Trayvon in a hoodie, standing in the rain, looking up at a house. Zimmerman pulls up in his car.)

Zimmerman: Excuse me. I'm on the neighborhood watch and I haven't seen you in the community before. Do you need some assistance?
Martin: No. I'm just looking at the painting these people have in their house.
Zimmerman: Do you live near here?
Martin: Yes. I'm staying with my dad down at the end of the street here.
Zimmerman: Well, it's raining a bit. Would you like a ride?
Martin: Sure.
(Gets in car. Drive. Drive. Drive.)
Martin: Here it is. Thanks for the ride.
Zimmerman: Sure. Nice to meet you. Have a good night.
(Martin gets out. Goes into house. Zimmerman drives home.)
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:12 PM   #525
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Outside of the fact that the kid did not laid in wait,there is nothing wrong with your post.
What do YOU think he did all that time instead of going home?

(remember they know by time stamps that he had 4+ min. to go home which was around a footballs throw away according to his own family. Instead he meets up with GH heading in the opposite direction. )

I guess he took the scenic route meeting in surprise manner?
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