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Old 07-12-2013, 08:56 AM   #476
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Then he should have stayed in the car. Getting out the car created a dangerous situation. It was his choice to do so and it made the end-result entirely avoidable. That's not self-defense. Period.
So if this had ended differently and Martin had killed Zimmerman while bashing his head into the concrete, he would be justified because Zimmerman got out of his car? Self defense started when Martin started bashing his head into the concrete.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:00 AM   #477
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Damn him for trying to help protect his neighborhood. Damn him for caring.
Protect the neighborhood from what? The kid was just walking home from the store.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:00 AM   #478
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Trayvon had a cell phone in his pocket. I wonder why he didn't call police to report that somebody was following him? Zimmerman had every right to watch Martin and see what he was up to and where he was going. He was on the neighborhood watch. All Martin had to do was continue down the walkway to the place where he was staying and then tell his father somebody was following him, or call police. Hell, if I'm a 17 year old in this situation, I run home.

According to Zimmerman's testimony, Martin hid in the bushes. Zimmerman couldn't see him in the dark and walked down to the next street, Retreat View Circle. He didn't see him on that street either, so he turned and started to walk back to his car. At the point where he got back to the walkway between the houses, Martin came out of the bushes and attacked him. Sure, if Zimmerman doesn't get out of the car, nothing happens. But if Martin doesn't double back, nothing happens either.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:03 AM   #479
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Protect the neighborhood from what? The kid was just walking home from the store.
The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:05 AM   #480
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Trayvon had a cell phone in his pocket. I wonder why he didn't call police to report that somebody was following him? Zimmerman had every right to watch Martin and see what he was up to and where he was going. He was on the neighborhood watch. All Martin had to do was continue down the walkway to the place where he was staying and then tell his father somebody was following him, or call police. Hell, if I'm a 17 year old in this situation, I run home.

According to Zimmerman's testimony, Martin hid in the bushes. Zimmerman couldn't see him in the dark and walked down to the next street, Retreat View Circle. He didn't see him on that street either, so he turned and started to walk back to his car. At the point where he got back to the walkway between the houses, Martin came out of the bushes and attacked him. Sure, if Zimmerman doesn't get out of the car, nothing happens. But if Martin doesn't double back, nothing happens either.
And if Martin doesn't attack Zimmerman, nothing happens.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:06 AM   #481
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Trayvon had a cell phone in his pocket. I wonder why he didn't call police to report that somebody was following him? Zimmerman had every right to watch Martin and see what he was up to and where he was going. He was on the neighborhood watch. All Martin had to do was continue down the walkway to the place where he was staying and then tell his father somebody was following him, or call police. Hell, if I'm a 17 year old in this situation, I run home.

According to Zimmerman's testimony, Martin hid in the bushes. Zimmerman couldn't see him in the dark and walked down to the next street, Retreat View Circle. He didn't see him on that street either, so he turned and started to walk back to his car. At the point where he got back to the walkway between the houses, Martin came out of the bushes and attacked him. Sure, if Zimmerman doesn't get out of the car, nothing happens. But if Martin doesn't double back, nothing happens either.
Now you're just making **** up. There is no evidence or testimony by zimmerman trayvon was hiding in the bushes.
Home is exactly where martin was going.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:06 AM   #482
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So if this had ended differently and Martin had killed Zimmerman while bashing his head into the concrete, he would be justified because Zimmerman got out of his car? Self defense started when Martin started bashing his head into the concrete.
It hasn't been proven that his head was being bashed into the concrete. The two ME's had different opinions. Additionally, it's not clear at all that Martin wasn't the one in self-defense mode. Some random, overzealous stranger starts following him in his car, he runs and hides, then the stranger gets out and starts pursuing him on foot. If that's the case, Martin had every reason to fear for his own safety. We only have Zimmerman's word about how the fight started (witnesses only saw after it already commenced). We only have his word that Martin looked "suspicious." But what we do know for sure is that the outcome would have been avoidable if Zimmerman has listened to the 9-11 operator and not pursued.

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Old 07-12-2013, 09:08 AM   #483
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The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin
So? What does that have to do with Martin?
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:09 AM   #484
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The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin
So ****ing what. That has nothing to do with martin.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:09 AM   #485
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Hell, if I'm a 17 year old in this situation, I run home.
That's exactly what Martin tried to do. Even Zimmerman says on the 9-11 tape, "oh ****, he's running."
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:10 AM   #486
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Protect the neighborhood from what? The kid was just walking home from the store.
According to Zimmerman, he was not just "walking home from the store." When Zimmerman first saw Martin, Martin was not on the sidewalk. He was standing in somebody's yard, in the rain, looking up at the windows of a house. Ever see the film of Zimmerman talking to the police and showing them what happened? Frankly, it doesn't strike me as if he is lying, and I'm pretty good at reading micro-expressions.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/05/2...-evidence-room
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:11 AM   #487
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And if Martin doesn't attack Zimmerman, nothing happens.
Actually it was zimmerman that attacked martin.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:12 AM   #488
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According to Zimmerman, he was not just "walking home from the store." When Zimmerman first saw Martin, Martin was not on the sidewalk. He was standing in somebody's yard, in the rain, looking up at the windows of a house. Ever see the film of Zimmerman talking to the police and showing them what happened? Frankly, it doesn't strike me as if he is lying, and I'm pretty good at reading micro-expressions.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/05/2...-evidence-room
And if I told you I had a bridge to sell you,would you believe that.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:19 AM   #489
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You guys are blind to the facts. Hell even the prosecutors pretty much conceded that Martin was on top when they brought in the dummy. Martin had injuries on his hands, Zimmerman had injuries to his face and the back of the head. You guys have no facts, just the story made up in your head.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:20 AM   #490
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You guys are blind to the facts. Hell even the prosecutors pretty much conceded that Martin was on top when they brought in the dummy. Martin had injuries on his hands, Zimmerman had injuries to his face and the back of the head. You guys have no facts, just the story made up in your head.
Martin being on top doesn't mean he started the fight, only that he got the best of Zimmerman once the fight started. None of the witnesses saw who started the fight. We only have Zimmerman's word for that.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:21 AM   #491
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So ****ing what. That has nothing to do with martin.
Big picture facts. I understand you don't understand what facts are.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:23 AM   #492
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Martin being on top doesn't mean he started the fight, only that he got the best of Zimmerman once the fight started. None of the witnesses saw who started the fight. We only have Zimmerman's word for that.
But it supports self defense.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:24 AM   #493
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And if I told you I had a bridge to sell you,would you believe that.
No. I just don't assume I know the facts when I don't. Either story is plausible. More of the evidence supports Zimmerman's story. Which is why police didn't prosecute in the first place.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:26 AM   #494
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But it supports self defense.
If you follow someone, start a fight with them, they get the best of you, and then you shoot them, that is NOT self-defense. The person you followed and started the fight with is the one in self-defense mode.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:28 AM   #495
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No. I just don't assume I know the facts when I don't. Either story is plausible. More of the evidence supports Zimmerman's story. Which is why police didn't prosecute in the first place.
You're making quite the assumption that zimmerman is telling the truth,when there are too many inconsistencies in his story.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:29 AM   #496
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If you follow someone, start a fight with them, they get the best of you, and then you shoot them, that is NOT self-defense. The person you followed and started the fight with is the one in self-defense mode.
Not if the person being followed has the opportunity to get away, but instead doubles back. If Zimmerman is telling the truth, he lost sight of Martin and even went the wrong way, down to the wrong street, to see where Martin had gone. Had Martin just continued on down the walkway to where he was staying, the confrontation never happens. Unless, for some reason, you assume Zimmerman is lying.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:30 AM   #497
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Big picture facts. I understand you don't understand what facts are.
Lol BS. It doesn't justify hunting someone down and killing him.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:30 AM   #498
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You're making quite the assumption that zimmerman is telling the truth,when there are too many inconsistencies in his story.
The physical evidence supports his story.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:31 AM   #499
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No. I just don't assume I know the facts when I don't. Either story is plausible. More of the evidence supports Zimmerman's story. Which is why police didn't prosecute in the first place.
No, it really doesn't. Most of the evidence supports that Martin was walking home from the store and an overzealous Zimmerman started following him even after Martin started running to safety and the 9-11 operator asked him not to pursue. Zimmerman then exited his car to pursue Martin, got into a fight that he started losing, and then shot Martin. Zimmerman's claims about Martin acting suspicious and attacking him out of the dark aren't corroborated by any other witnesses or evidence.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:31 AM   #500
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Not if the person being followed has the opportunity to get away, but instead doubles back. If Zimmerman is telling the truth, he lost sight of Martin and even went the wrong way, down to the wrong street, to see where Martin had gone. Had Martin just continued on down the walkway to where he was staying, the confrontation never happens. Unless, for some reason, you assume Zimmerman is lying.
No different than zimmerman staying in.his truck.
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