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Old 07-05-2013, 07:33 PM   #76
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Now Obama using executive actions. Its not an order per se. He will just send a memo to a govt agency telling them what he would like them to do. Then they do it.
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:34 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
Presidents constitutional right,you think Obama is the first president to use executive order.
How about if a repub got in and made an executive order no more fed funds for any abortions anywhere. Any hospital or group doing them loses all federal funding etc etc. Would you cry foul?
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:39 AM   #78
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The 5th isn't what protects her employment. It's actually federal case law, in particular the "Garrity Rights" which have been in place since the 60s:

http://www.garrityrights.org/basics.html

The summary is, that since a public's employee's employer is the government, any attempt to force testimony -- including threat of termination -- is a violation of the 5th amendment.

Now, we can agree or disagree with those laws, but we're talking about the application and purpose of the 5th amendment here, and what invoking the 5th does or does not say about the person invoking it.

Do try to stay on topic bub.
I said the government was out of control. The fact that it has backed that up in writing does little to diminish the glaringly obvious.
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:41 AM   #79
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How about if a repub got in and made an executive order no more fed funds for any abortions anywhere. Any hospital or group doing them loses all federal funding etc etc. Would you cry foul?
Looks like all of Obamacare's mandates are now subject to executive approval. The next President can essentially repeal it by EO. Thanks Obama.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:42 AM   #80
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If a minority in the Congress can stop an up or down vote on any appointment, and gleefully abuses that power, what should a president do? Just allow government to come to a halt?
No he is supposed to deal with them and find common ground. Not advance an agenda he doesn't have the votes for. You appoint someone to the position repubs will vote for etc etc. That is how its done.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:21 PM   #81
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I said the government was out of control. The fact that it has backed that up in writing does little to diminish the glaringly obvious.
As is common for you, you have it totally backwards. What's out of control is a legal system that makes criminals out of essentially every citizen. There are so many laws, and so many poorly conceived laws, that essentially every person violates several a day, often felonies. For example, pretty much anyone who has ever used a website that requires an account has commits felony computer "hacking" on a daily basis because they don't read and/or follow all the terms of service.

That's just one reason why the 5th amendment is so critical. No person, no matter how innocent they think they are actually is "innocent" of any law breaking (despite most people being quite innocent of any actual wrong doing).

It's a damn fine thing that the supreme court has restricted the ability of the government to abuse its citizen employees by forcing them to give up their 5th amendment rights under threat of termination. Calling that restriction on the government a symptom of of the government being out of control is absurd. What would be out of control is a government that was not restricted from forcing citizens to give up their rights by threatening their livelihoods.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:34 PM   #82
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No he is supposed to deal with them and find common ground. Not advance an agenda he doesn't have the votes for. You appoint someone to the position repubs will vote for etc etc. That is how its done.
Obama has tried everything to do just that,find common ground,rethugs just have a my way or the highway approach . You appoint someone that can get 50+1 in the senate.

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Old 07-09-2013, 12:21 PM   #83
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The controversy that erupted in May has focused on an ideological question: Were conservative groups singled out for special treatment based on their politics, or did the I.R.S. equally target liberal groups? But a closer look at the I.R.S. operation suggests that the problem was less about ideology and more about how a process instructing reviewers to “be on the lookout” for selected terms was applied to any group that mentioned certain words in its application.

Organizations approached by The New York Times based on specific “lookout list” warnings, like advocates for people in “occupied territories” and “open source software developers,” told similar stories of long waits, intrusive inquiries and bureaucratic hassles that pointed to no particular bias but rather to a process that became too rigid and too broad.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/us....html?hp&_r=2&
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:42 PM   #84
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Obama has tried everything to do just that,find common ground,rethugs just have a my way or the highway approach . You appoint someone that can get 50+1 in the senate.
BS even you don't believe Obama has tried. He appoints people he knows the repubs will go crazy over.
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:22 PM   #85
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BS even you don't believe Obama has tried. He appoints people he knows the repubs will go crazy over.
He has tried & has been criticized by the left for continuously trying to do so.

He appoints people he feels is best for the job not who he thinks rethugs will like best,if rethugs get crazy about it that's their problem not Obamas.

If rethugs wanted their people appointed they should come up with better policies so they can win the WH & appoint who they want.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:42 PM   #86
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BS even you don't believe Obama has tried. He appoints people he knows the repubs will go crazy over.
You are right - but I think Obama has a reason for doing so. Everytime repubs get all worked up over an executive branch appointee they tend to look foolish, vindicative and more importantly obstructionist. Obama plays the card that he is trying to get the wheels of government in motion but how can he against such a stubborn house majority? The think is I think most of the time Obama wins these battles in the court of public opinion because republicans are so focused on maintaining favor within their hyper-right base in order to prevent primary challenges that they are willing to sacrifice the general public view.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:48 PM   #87
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How anyone takes anything the right-wing media says seriously anymore is beyond me.

Talk about the paradigm example of "the boy who cried wolf."
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:20 PM   #88
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You are right - but I think Obama has a reason for doing so. Everytime repubs get all worked up over an executive branch appointee they tend to look foolish, vindicative and more importantly obstructionist. Obama plays the card that he is trying to get the wheels of government in motion but how can he against such a stubborn house majority? The think is I think most of the time Obama wins these battles in the court of public opinion because republicans are so focused on maintaining favor within their hyper-right base in order to prevent primary challenges that they are willing to sacrifice the general public view.
You are 100% correct. Once Obama saw that repubs take heat for that he got even more contentious. He was like hell appoint anyone as long as repubs hate it. They more they hate the worst they look.

i agree 100% Obama played political cards like that masterfully and they work well in elections. Problem is he is 5 yrs into being our leader and all his ideas are falling apart. His foriegn policy is a mess, the economy still stagnant for all but the rich, and Obamacare is an outright disaster with more and more problems at each turn. The costs keep going up and he is no closer to getting big business to adopt the provisions. What like half the states have no exchanges set up to help people buy insurance.

I agree with you though Kapps he's a slick politician when it comes to making sure the focus of the countries problems is directed anywhere but him. I don't see him as a the buck stops here type President.

If at the end of his 8 yrs he is still blaming everyone else will dems then finally say man this dude stunk?
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:24 PM   #89
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How anyone takes anything the right-wing media says seriously anymore is beyond me.

Talk about the paradigm example of "the boy who cried wolf."
Do you really believe MSNBC? Just the fact they are still Obamas boys shows they are just like the repubs. Totally beholden to the people with the money. i really think liberal media would be happier with a conservative in office. Then SNL can make fun of him and so can stand up comics. Then liberals can at least go protest and feel like they are standing up for what they believe. Right now all my liberal friend tell me that they really want to bash obama, maybe even protest some of his policies. Obviously they hate the spying on America, using drones to kill americans and other people with no trial etc.

They are honest though they still feel Romney would have been worst and that by protesting Obamas moves they will open the window for a repub to win the presidency and they don't want that. So they get stuck with some half liberal who throws them a bone here and there. The country gets stuck with a spender who wastes out money and thwarts commerce with too many regulations. In the end neither side gets what they want from a guy like Obama with no moral center and no real character at all.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:30 PM   #90
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Do you really believe MSNBC? Just the fact they are still Obamas boys shows they are just like the repubs. Totally beholden to the people with the money. i really think liberal media would be happier with a conservative in office. Then SNL can make fun of him and so can stand up comics. Then liberals can at least go protest and feel like they are standing up for what they believe. Right now all my liberal friend tell me that they really want to bash obama, maybe even protest some of his policies. Obviously they hate the spying on America, using drones to kill americans and other people with no trial etc.

They are honest though they still feel Romney would have been worst and that by protesting Obamas moves they will open the window for a repub to win the presidency and they don't want that. So they get stuck with some half liberal who throws them a bone here and there. The country gets stuck with a spender who wastes out money and thwarts commerce with too many regulations. In the end neither side gets what they want from a guy like Obama with no moral center and no real character at all.
That's a good story, and that maybe true but I'll wait until I see a liberal in office to make up my mind. Obama is a conservative in Democrats clothing. He isn't much more liberal than Romney. We get a true Democrat like Sherrod Brown or Bernie Sanders in office and I think people would be thrilled with the results.
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