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Old 07-07-2013, 12:26 PM   #26
Bmore Manning
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I'm sure all of what you said is mostly pre-snap. Once that WR takes off and it's live bullets, that CB is reacting, I don't care what you say. QB and WR tendencies have nothing to do with knowing route trees. That's just basic film study of what tendencies a player might have that he gives away. And in man on man, it really is all about reaction. I think position and anticipation come more into play when a CB is in zone.
That's where your wrong. Maybe I can find that Revis interview and post it. Knowing what the WR is going to do is what makes Revis special. That's how elite separate themselves from just plain reacting.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:32 PM   #27
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We have had this discussion before.. As your dime back he is solid. He got away with man to man and looked decent because he was faster than most of the WRs he went up against.

Watch him closely, he has no recognition of the route tree, he doesn't force anyone to do anything, he just slowly mirrors the WR. He is not going to be the future of this team at CB, physical press man? Please...
A guy with speed who can mirror WR's is special, they are not dime a dozen. It took him years to develop and we are benefiting of his development. No sense to kick him to the curb to keep a Safety who cannot stay healthy and has questionable decision making off field.

You want guys like Tony even if only for depth. Quality depth is key to winning especially when you get deep into the season and playoffs.

You keep pointing out how both of his INT's were underthrown, the fact is that he was in position to make those plays and he executed. I know your more of PM fan and new to following the Broncos but we have had such poor play from CB's in the past where guys like Foxworth, Cox, or Paymah would have dropped those passes.

Do not discount a guy who has speed and can execute just because he is undersized. Sports of all kinds are littered with undersized guys who had successful careers despite being small.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:43 PM   #28
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A guy with speed who can mirror WR's is special, they are not dime a dozen. It took him years to develop and we are benefiting of his development. No sense to kick him to the curb to keep a Safety who cannot stay healthy and has questionable decision making off field.

You want guys like Tony even if only for depth. Quality depth is key to winning especially when you get deep into the season and playoffs.

You keep pointing out how both of his INT's were underthrown, the fact is that he was in position to make those plays and he executed. I know your more of PM fan and new to following the Broncos but we have had such poor play from CB's in the past where guys like Foxworth, Cox, or Paymah would have dropped those passes.

Do not discount a guy who has speed and can execute just because he is undersized. Sports of all kinds are littered with undersized guys who had successful careers despite being small.
Man u can tell youre about to kick the bucket you are such in the old school aproach. Always bashing broncos who have run ins with the law. Ur seriously gonna get on quinton carter for a charge that was dismissed and lable him a problem off the feild ? Rediculous .

Tony carter went undrafted for a reason and last year was his ceiling . Sure he had an ok year but that was probably the best he can produce and i cant see him living up to that again going forward. Take a look at elways history of CBs he likes to bring in ... Tall long athletics. The total opposite of tony. DRC Champ Harris Kayvon Bolden all long armed knuckle draggers. The league is trending that way .

All in all i see carter not making the team aimply because i cant see elway kicking bolden to the curb after one season . Its a numbers gamr and tony the odd man out
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:26 AM   #29
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Wonder if Harris will get looks at safety. He played safety in college, and I'd sure trust him a lot more than Moore or Adams back there. I know he's a great nickel corner but if Rodgers-Cromartie plays well, I think T.Carter, Bolden, or Webster could step into the nickel effectively.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:50 AM   #30
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Chris HarrisVerified account
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https://twitter.com/ChrisHarrisJr/st...22814476533760

Wonder if Harris will get looks at safety. He played safety in college, and I'd sure trust him a lot more than Moore or Adams back there. I know he's a great nickel corner but if Rodgers-Cromartie plays well, I think T.Carter, Bolden, or Webster could step into the nickel effectively.
They have been saying Harris is the best nickleback in the NFL. No way he moves to safety.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:26 AM   #31
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https://twitter.com/ChrisHarrisJr/st...22814476533760

Wonder if Harris will get looks at safety. He played safety in college, and I'd sure trust him a lot more than Moore or Adams back there. I know he's a great nickel corner but if Rodgers-Cromartie plays well, I think T.Carter, Bolden, or Webster could step into the nickel effectively.
Weve been hearing for two years now harris can play some safety but has he actually ever done it? Serious question , i dont know that answer. Im kinda intriged to see if kayvon webster can play safety
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:56 AM   #32
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He's good and I'd like him in Denver a long time, but that is a big deal.
Considering what we pay/paid Joe Mays I think that's a fair contract.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:01 AM   #33
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Chris HarrisVerified account
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Practicing safety , corner , nickel , linebacker #footballplayer
https://twitter.com/ChrisHarrisJr/st...22814476533760

Wonder if Harris will get looks at safety. He played safety in college, and I'd sure trust him a lot more than Moore or Adams back there. I know he's a great nickel corner but if Rodgers-Cromartie plays well, I think T.Carter, Bolden, or Webster could step into the nickel effectively.
Id love to see him spend a good chunk of TC working at it. Safety and nickel translate well and it's not like he'll lose the skillset by spending a week or two trying to address a problem area.

Or Bailey. If Champ was up for it, I'd like to see him give safety a whirl.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:35 AM   #34
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A guy with speed who can mirror WR's is special, they are not dime a dozen. It took him years to develop and we are benefiting of his development. No sense to kick him to the curb to keep a Safety who cannot stay healthy and has questionable decision making off field.

You want guys like Tony even if only for depth. Quality depth is key to winning especially when you get deep into the season and playoffs.

You keep pointing out how both of his INT's were underthrown, the fact is that he was in position to make those plays and he executed. I know your more of PM fan and new to following the Broncos but we have had such poor play from CB's in the past where guys like Foxworth, Cox, or Paymah would have dropped those passes.

Do not discount a guy who has speed and can execute just because he is undersized. Sports of all kinds are littered with undersized guys who had successful careers despite being small.
Steven, I evaluated prospects for the OMane draft, and looked at somewhere around 10-15 prospects who had very solid ability to mirror the WR. Why I'm bringing this up is that it's very common for DBs to be able to mirror, but there's something that makes DBs elite and it's not just mirroring skills. A couple very loose hipped DBs who were very fundamentally sound at mirroring didn't get drafted in the NFL draft. So Carter is not some anomaly, more like the trend.

I'm not suggesting cut Carter, but I wouldn't be opposed to trading him and someone else in a package for a Safety or DE.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:44 AM   #35
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Steven, I evaluated prospects for the OMane draft, and looked at somewhere around 10-15 prospects who had very solid ability to mirror the WR. Why I'm bringing this up is that it's very common for DBs to be able to mirror, but there's something that makes DBs elite and it's not just mirroring skills. A couple very loose hipped DBs who were very fundamentally sound at mirroring didn't get drafted in the NFL draft. So Carter is not some anomaly, more like the trend.

I'm not suggesting cut Carter, but I wouldn't be opposed to trading him and someone else in a package for a Safety or DE.
Usually the main culprit there is ball skills.

Running step-for-step with the receiver is great, but being able to locate, track down and high point a ball is what separates depth from the pro bowl.

1. Ball Skills (locate, close with, high point, return ability)
2. Coverage (speed, fluidity, no false steps)
3. Tackling (consistency, willingness)
4. Play recognition (play type and route recognition)
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:02 AM   #36
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Usually the main culprit there is ball skills.

Running step-for-step with the receiver is great, but being able to locate, track down and high point a ball is what separates depth from the pro bowl.

1. Ball Skills (locate, close with, high point, return ability)
2. Coverage (speed, fluidity, no false steps)
3. Tackling (consistency, willingness)
4. Play recognition (play type and route recognition)
Play Recognition! That's not possible! But but... That's just not possible a DB knows what the WR is doing! Zona and Steven say its impossible!
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:59 AM   #37
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There are good points for and against Tony Carter but each side is looking at the situation differently. Tony Carter is not Champ Bailey and he is not Revis. However, he's very valuable going up against a team's 3rd or 4th best receiver. He's very quick, and if he gets the ball in his hands he can make a play. In a perfect world, Webster beats him out and he is very very good depth in case of injury. But there's nothing wrong with having him at dime, unless the team we are playing has an up and coming but not yet #1 or #2 receiver who's like 6'4'' and he gets Roc[Alexander]ed.

Enough about the route tree stuff.. of course it's important but if that is what gives Revis his superior ability maybe we need to come to terms with the idea that most CBs aren't going to be as good at it.. maybe? i dunno.

As for Chris Harris, I remember him being very good rushing the QB off the edge at times. The fact that hey are practicing him at 4 different spots is intriguing. Seems like he could end up being our football version of Chone Figgins.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:19 AM   #38
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There are good points for and against Tony Carter but each side is looking at the situation differently. Tony Carter is not Champ Bailey and he is not Revis. However, he's very valuable going up against a team's 3rd or 4th best receiver. He's very quick, and if he gets the ball in his hands he can make a play. In a perfect world, Webster beats him out and he is very very good depth in case of injury. But there's nothing wrong with having him at dime, unless the team we are playing has an up and coming but not yet #1 or #2 receiver who's like 6'4'' and he gets Roc[Alexander]ed.

Enough about the route tree stuff.. of course it's important but if that is what gives Revis his superior ability maybe we need to come to terms with the idea that most CBs aren't going to be as good at it.. maybe? i dunno.

As for Chris Harris, I remember him being very good rushing the QB off the edge at times. The fact that hey are practicing him at 4 different spots is intriguing. Seems like he could end up being our football version of Chone Figgins.
That's because most teams don't have the depth at WR with a star quality player who would expose TC. I wouldn't want him matched up against some teams third best WR even. He just is faster than most #4 WRs so he can stick. He is mentally not sound enough to be anything more than depth.

AGAIN I have no issue with him as depth, and I wouldn't want him outright cut! But he may have some trade value..

Not sure why you are also throwing out the route tree, Revis said he uses it, and likes to be one step ahead of the WR, and he is truly special, so no we shouldn't expect it as the norm, but don't throw it out.

Carter is just a guy who can hang with the lower end WRs.. That's it.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:41 PM   #39
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Lets send Tony Carter and a draft pick over to Buffalo for Jarius Byrd. Moore can either be moved to Strong Safety or he can be thrown in the trade package.

Who's with me?
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:36 PM   #40
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Lets send Tony Carter and a draft pick over to Buffalo for Jarius Byrd. Moore can either be moved to Strong Safety or he can be thrown in the trade package.

Who's with me?
Jairus isn't.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:27 AM   #41
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Jairus isn't.
He's not liking his contract situation, they aren't close to a deal. Profootballtalk said sources are talking about a sign and trade.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5307/jairus-byrd

He is the best Free Safety in football.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:54 AM   #42
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He's not liking his contract situation, they aren't close to a deal. Profootballtalk said sources are talking about a sign and trade.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5307/jairus-byrd

He is the best Free Safety in football.
I would love to trade for him.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:09 AM   #43
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Lets send Tony Carter and a draft pick over to Buffalo for Jarius Byrd. Moore can either be moved to Strong Safety or he can be thrown in the trade package.

Who's with me?
Geter done!!
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