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Old 07-07-2013, 04:14 PM   #251
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This is a 100% wrong. If they aren't on the roster a month before game 1, they LOSE the whole season no matter when they report. This just recently went into effect for Chris Johnson of the Titans-he's holding out for a new deal and did not report 30 days before the first game, so he now loses the entire 2011 season for his service time.
You get fined per day before the season starts. You don't lose an entire season if you're not there 30 days prior to season.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:24 PM   #252
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You get fined per day before the season starts. You don't lose an entire season if you're not there 30 days prior to season.
^This.

I believe Vincent Jackson is the most recent to take it even close to the deadline. Well after the season had started. But, he reported eventually, and did not lose the season.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:25 PM   #253
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This is a 100% wrong. If they aren't on the roster a month before game 1, they LOSE the whole season no matter when they report. This just recently went into effect for Chris Johnson of the Titans-he's holding out for a new deal and did not report 30 days before the first game, so he now loses the entire 2011 season for his service time.
if that is true then there is nothing to worry about.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:32 PM   #254
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You get fined per day before the season starts. You don't lose an entire season if you're not there 30 days prior to season.
http://www.nfl.com/trainingcamp/stor...s-and-counting

The holdout of Tennessee Titans running back Chris Johnson entered a new phase on Tuesday when Johnson, according to ESPN, failed to report to training camp for a 12th consecutive day, losing a year toward unrestricted free agency under the rules of the new collective bargaining agreement.

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^This.

I believe Vincent Jackson is the most recent to take it even close to the deadline. Well after the season had started. But, he reported eventually, and did not lose the season.
Or not, C2J held out in 2011, Jackson held out in 2010.



Johnson obviously made a bold statement by giving up a year toward free agency by not showing up by the deadline.

However, this could easily hurt him in the long run.

Johnson may see himself as a Titan for life, but even if he gets his contract now, this will cost him money later.

The Titans could make this a moot point by awarding him a ridiculous contract, but that seems unlikely at this juncture.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...ong-run/page/3
C2J held out under then NEW CBA rules, Jackson did not.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:32 PM   #255
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Broncos lowballed Clady in 2012

Douglas Lee Jul 7, 2013 11:23 AM
Good Morning, Broncos fans! As we've been discussing for quite some time now, the team has until 4pm ET on July 15 to agree to a long-term deal with left tackle Ryan Clady, or have him play out his $9.828M franchise tender, which he has not yet signed.

The two sides reportedly exchanged offers last week and are expected to resume negotiations in the coming days.

A year ago, Mike Klis of the Denver Post reported that talks ended with Clady turning down a five-year, $50M deal that included $28M in guarantees.

But Klis now reports that Denver's final 2012 offer included only $16M in guarantees, which is obviously a monumental difference1.

This is a really big deal, if we're to believe Klis's latest report.

Now, it could be that the 2012 offer did include $28M in so-called guarantees, but that they weren't full guarantees. In other words, the now-missing $12M may have been in the form of a 2014 salary that only became guaranteed on a certain date, say the beginning of the 2014 league year.

If you're thinking, what's the difference, it's not like they were going to cut him, consider the possibility of injury, or the cautionary tale of Elvis Dumervil, whose last Denver contract reportedly contained $43.156M in guarantees, $12M of which disappeared when the Broncos cut him in March.

We've said for years that it's all about the guarantees, but unfortunately, it's all about the full guarantees, and we aren't always privy to those details. It's in the best interests of teams and agents to inflate publicly reported contract figures; teams want their paying customers fans to know think they're doing everything they can to acquire and retain talent, and agents want potential clients to think they get their guys the most coin.

There's nothing wrong, or dirty about the Broncos only offering Clady $16M in guarantees.

The team is entitled to value Ryan at whatever number they come up with, and Clady and his representatives are free to accept or decline what the team offers.

But where it gets a little shady, in our eyes, is when false reports ($28M in guarantees) are put out by the team and disseminated by the only paper in town, and then public pressure mounts in the form of fans calling Clady greedy or entitled.

Because the DP is the only paper in town, we have to accept as fact, going forward, that Denver's last 2012 offer contained only $16M in guaranteed money.

Given that assumption, there is absolutely no mystery as to why Clady turned it down, and frankly, it makes the likelihood of the two sides coming to an agreement now appear dubious, at best.

If Clady signs and plays out the franchise tag, he will make $9.828M in 2013. He'd then become an unrestricted free agent in 2014, with the Broncos having the chance to reapply their tag, but at a 20% premium ($11.7936M). This means that barring injury, Clady has to think he's going to earn $21.6216M in salary over the 2013 and 2014 seasons.

Were the Broncos not to tag him next year, he'd be hitting unrestricted free agency as a 27-year-old tackle with at least two All-Pro designations and three Pro Bowls to his name.

Putting ourselves in Clady's shoes, with an absolute worst-case scenario of $9.828M2 in guaranteed 2013 salary, it would be a surprise to see Clady accept less than $30M or so in guarantees as part of a long-term deal, and we don't believe the Broncos were ever sincere in their efforts to sign Clady a year ago.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...y-in-2012-lard
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:38 PM   #256
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I wasn't aware we could tag Clady again next year.

I know it's not the 'classy' thing to do, but at 9Mil this year, and 11Mil next yr (guaranteed), I would think The Broncos' are holding most of the cards in this deal, no?

Sure, we'd risk losing Clady in 2015, but that's a looooong way off for an O-lineman (or any player, for that matter) in the NFL.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:36 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
This is a 100% wrong. If they aren't on the roster a month before game 1, they LOSE the whole season no matter when they report. This just recently went into effect for Chris Johnson of the Titans-he's holding out for a new deal and did not report 30 days before the first game, so he now loses the entire 2011 season for his service time.
This only counts for players who are under contract. Clady is not under contract and only has to be on the roster for 6 weeks to accrue a season, but really he has not need of accruing seasons since he already qualifies for UFA.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:37 PM   #258
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^This.

I believe Vincent Jackson is the most recent to take it even close to the deadline. Well after the season had started. But, he reported eventually, and did not lose the season.
Again, you only get fined if you are under contract. Until Clady puts name to paper he is not under contract and can't be fined.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:58 PM   #259
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This only counts for players who are under contract. Clady is not under contract and only has to be on the roster for 6 weeks to accrue a season, but really he has not need of accruing seasons since he already qualifies for UFA.
So DBroncos4life is 100% wrong, not me.... go figure.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:23 PM   #260
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Again, you only get fined if you are under contract. Until Clady puts name to paper he is not under contract and can't be fined.
He can't be fined, but he can't collect the entire $9.8 mil. He'll lose the 10 weeks of game checks and collect around $4 mil for the season instead. So, in effect, it is a $6 mil fine.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:27 PM   #261
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He can't be fined, but he can't collect the entire $9.8 mil. He'll lose the 10 weeks of game checks and collect around $4 mil for the season instead. So, in effect, it is a $6 mil fine.
It is true he won't collect the checks, but I feel it is semantically questionable to call not earning money for not working being fined.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:33 PM   #262
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I know it's not the 'classy' thing to do, but at 9Mil this year, and 11Mil next yr (guaranteed), I would think The Broncos' are holding most of the cards in this deal, no?
Sort of. This year the team certainly holds all the cards, but next year they're going to have to address DT and probably Decker. If they want to work out contracts for those guys, they would probably also have an incentive to give Clady a long term deal in order to lower his 2014 cap number.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:49 PM   #263
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Sort of. This year the team certainly holds all the cards, but next year they're going to have to address DT and probably Decker. If they want to work out contracts for those guys, they would probably also have an incentive to give Clady a long term deal in order to lower his 2014 cap number.
I agree, the problem is the other free agents next season.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:25 AM   #264
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Not Archie, but I think it's common sense to believe that a couple of years is probably his window. If for example he were to go out this year as a Superbowl MVP, you really think he's coming back? Doubt he pulls a Brett Farve.
I'm just giving you **** Razor! I don't think PM and Favre are the same, other than both want to enhance their legacy. Brett was almost doing it to prove GB wrong for releasing him. He had a personal vendetta.

PM is after SB wins to cement his legacy as the GOAT. After looking at the terms of the free agent signings 2 years, everyone thinks its a two year window he has remaining. The fan in me hopes he plays longer of course. But if he's healthy and performing at a high level, I see no reason for him to retire, I think he could play out the contract! He is after SB wins, if we were fortunate to win this year I don't think he would retire. If we were even more fortunate to go back to back, that could be different!

There's too many variables to predict, I just hope we get to enjoy multiple years of Manning. I hope he at the very least plays out the contract and brings home multiple SB wins!
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:29 AM   #265
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The same way you know that the broncos are try to pay clady"what he's worth".
the point is that it's a negotiation process and it happens to be very normal in the NFL.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:38 AM   #266
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I'm just giving you **** Razor! I don't think PM and Favre are the same, other than both want to enhance their legacy. Brett was almost doing it to prove GB wrong for releasing him. He had a personal vendetta.

PM is after SB wins to cement his legacy as the GOAT. After looking at the terms of the free agent signings 2 years, everyone thinks its a two year window he has remaining. The fan in me hopes he plays longer of course. But if he's healthy and performing at a high level, I see no reason for him to retire, I think he could play out the contract! He is after SB wins, if we were fortunate to win this year I don't think he would retire. If we were even more fortunate to go back to back, that could be different!

There's too many variables to predict, I just hope we get to enjoy multiple years of Manning. I hope he at the very least plays out the contract and brings home multiple SB wins!
Hey BMore, looked into that Rodgers thing I told you about but didnt have time to dig up. This is the closest I could find but it must be a different interview because he didnt have Peyton in his top 5 for the other one:

On his top five quarterbacks (not including himself):

“Tom Brady is the best by far. It’s not even close. Drew Brees has got to be right there. Tony Romo’s a good player. I’ll take Philip Rivers there. And Peyton, he’s right there. No order except for Tom being the best. He does things that other guys can’t do. His pocket presence is better than those guys by far. He throws a better ball than just about all those guys. He’s a winner – better than all those guys.”

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/201...r-is-terrible/
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:50 AM   #267
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Hey BMore, looked into that Rodgers thing I told you about but didnt have time to dig up. This is the closest I could find but it must be a different interview because he didnt have Peyton in his top 5 for the other one:

On his top five quarterbacks (not including himself):

“Tom Brady is the best by far. It’s not even close. Drew Brees has got to be right there. Tony Romo’s a good player. I’ll take Philip Rivers there. And Peyton, he’s right there. No order except for Tom being the best. He does things that other guys can’t do. His pocket presence is better than those guys by far. He throws a better ball than just about all those guys. He’s a winner – better than all those guys.”

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/201...r-is-terrible/
Thanks for digging that up Rev. The interesting part about that is the date when this happened, June 2010. I wouldn't argue Tom or Drew on that list, and Rodgers credentials seem to put alot of emphasis on altheticism and ARM strength. Obviously Peyton's greatest attribute is his brain, but that could also aid in a longer career! Father time catches up with everyone and diminishes physical skills, but Manning just continues to display his vast wealth of knowledge.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:02 AM   #268
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One thing I don't understand is they can give Mays(still on the team) that ridiculous contract yet have problems getting something done with Clady.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:42 AM   #269
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One thing I don't understand is they can give Mays(still on the team) that ridiculous contract yet have problems getting something done with Clady.
And let Elvis walk for peanuts.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:01 AM   #270
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And let Elvis walk for peanuts.
Elvis chose to walk. He had a better offer on the table here. He chose not to take it.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:06 AM   #271
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Elvis chose to walk. He had a better offer on the table here. He chose not to take it.
What are you, his agent? You don't know that at all.

You have no idea how much was guaranteed, reachable incentives, etc. ****, you don't even know what the Broncos actually offered!

Here's what we do know: We played chicken with Elvis over a little bit of extra money and lost.

Now if you want to hang your hat on "Elvis spurned us!" without giving any consideration as to why that may be, then go for it. But the fact remains, that we lost one of the BEST pass rushers in the game, as well as a team captain and lockerroom favorite, just so we could have some extra cap room in the coffers right now.

And that's ****ing stupid from ANY perspective.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:26 AM   #272
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And let Elvis walk for peanuts.
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What are you, his agent? You don't know that at all.

You have no idea how much was guaranteed, reachable incentives, etc. ****, you don't even know what the Broncos actually offered!

Here's what we do know: We played chicken with Elvis over a little bit of extra money and lost.

Now if you want to hang your hat on "Elvis spurned us!" without giving any consideration as to why that may be, then go for it. But the fact remains, that we lost one of the BEST pass rushers in the game, as well as a team captain and lockerroom favorite, just so we could have some extra cap room in the coffers right now.

And that's ****ing stupid from ANY perspective.
Um
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:37 AM   #273
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Um
What don't you understand?
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:37 AM   #274
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One thing I don't understand is they can give Mays(still on the team) that ridiculous contract yet have problems getting something done with Clady.
totally different animals. Mays was just stupid as hell and made no sense. complete overpayment.

Clady is a difference in valuation. he wants x amount, team values him at x amount.
Clady will probably get 80% of what he demands but the structure has to be cap friendly.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:47 AM   #275
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What don't you understand?
Pretty much everything you said to enjolras should apply to your previous post in my opinion. I mean you can't say 100% what Denver offered him either, so how can you claim it was over peanuts?
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