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Old 06-27-2013, 04:18 PM   #251
BroncoBeavis
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You're being too paranoid. You could then qualify every single thing we learn as propaganda because elders feel that's whats best to teach. If thats the case, lets just abolish schools all together.
It's not about abolishing anything. Just allowing people the freedom not to be force fed, which both preserves the dignity of the human conscience and holds the education establishment itself more accountable.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2990116.html

Anyway, it's questionable whether even you and I could come up with a consensus on what should or should not be taught in sex ed or current events. Now make it you, me, a Muslim, some Amish guy and Zach de la Rocha... Suddenly it becomes immediately apparent that forced educational standards could never work (in a free society)
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:47 PM   #252
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It's not about abolishing anything. Just allowing people the freedom not to be force fed, which both preserves the dignity of the human conscience and holds the education establishment itself more accountable.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2990116.html

Anyway, it's questionable whether even you and I could come up with a consensus on what should or should not be taught in sex ed or current events. Now make it you, me, a Muslim, some Amish guy and Zach de la Rocha... Suddenly it becomes immediately apparent that forced educational standards could never work (in a free society)
But we're forcing them now, something is being taught in schools and the world continues to exist. There's news every single day that doesnt need to be editorialized. Whats going on in Syria and why, there's storms in such and such place, who is the president of Poland and why is he in the news...tons of ****.
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:56 PM   #253
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Zach de la Rocha...
Are you a renegade of funk?!?
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:57 PM   #254
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Have any of the people here talking about catholic school ever actually been to one?

And Beavis, coming up with a curriculum for a sex Ed class which is based of science, it shouldn't matter what religion the kids in the class are. You're not teaching them what positions work best to achieve orgasm, you're teaching them the human body has many functions (fact), the way those fuctions affect their lives (facts), that abstinence is the best and only true method of contraception (fact), that sexual intercourse is a natural process driven by biochemical processes (fact), that unprotected sex has several consequences, the least of which is not STDs (fact).

And this was all in Catholic school health class. Honestly people, what were you taught?
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:05 PM   #255
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But we're forcing them now, something is being taught in schools and the world continues to exist. There's news every single day that doesnt need to be editorialized. Whats going on in Syria and why, there's storms in such and such place, who is the president of Poland and why is he in the news...tons of ****.
Sex ed is opt-out most places. And in reality, if push came to shove, students can get out of pretty much any curriculum on religious grounds. That's why mandatory can not be.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:07 PM   #256
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Are you a renegade of funk?!?
I was thinking more of Take the Power Back. Or something.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:56 AM   #257
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Current events is the bridge into politics, IMO. And it should be something kids learn about. There is more to the world then Yourcity USA.


Kids take govt and poli sci in 11th or 12th grade. Thats about the right age for kids to worry about current events and politics in the framework of a classroom. Before you can expect them to understand or form good opinions you have to teach them the core subjects. Those will give them a foundation of critical thinking they need. Trying to do that with 4th and 5th graders is just indoctrination trying to get kids to think how the teacher does before they have developed critical thinking skills.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:05 AM   #258
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Kids take govt and poli sci in 11th or 12th grade. Thats about the right age for kids to worry about current events and politics in the framework of a classroom. Before you can expect them to understand or form good opinions you have to teach them the core subjects. Those will give them a foundation of critical thinking they need. Trying to do that with 4th and 5th graders is just indoctrination trying to get kids to think how the teacher does before they have developed critical thinking skills.
Yeah, that would have been awesome for teachers to bury their heads in the sand and not discuss, say, the Berlin Wall coming down and what it means. We would have saved millions of minds by not discussing it with 5th graders.

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Old 06-28-2013, 09:05 AM   #259
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Kids take govt and poli sci in 11th or 12th grade. Thats about the right age for kids to worry about current events and politics in the framework of a classroom. Before you can expect them to understand or form good opinions you have to teach them the core subjects. Those will give them a foundation of critical thinking they need. Trying to do that with 4th and 5th graders is just indoctrination trying to get kids to think how the teacher does before they have developed critical thinking skills.
Not suggesting teaching current events in 5th grade, but poli sci and government classes are NOT the same as current events.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:15 AM   #260
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I got current events along with govt and poli sci. Also its fine to mention the Berlin Wall coming down and generalized meaning of it to young kids. But heavy politics in the 5th grade? no. They don't need to hear the corporation and ruining the world and make sure you buy an electric car BS in the 5th grade. Teach them math.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:06 AM   #261
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I got current events along with govt and poli sci. Also its fine to mention the Berlin Wall coming down and generalized meaning of it to young kids. But heavy politics in the 5th grade? no. They don't need to hear the corporation and ruining the world and make sure you buy an electric car BS in the 5th grade. Teach them math.
We're not talking about politics. We're talking about current events.

Do you understand the difference? Do you also understand that sometimes (in the case of the Berlin Wall), talking about politics in general is unavoidable?

If you know anything about teaching, you know that a quality teacher can teach any subject without interjecting their views on it. Will it get abused? Yes, but no more than teachers who currently work religion into their classes and get away with it. Deal with those abuses on an individual basis. Teach current events. And health/sex education. They ought to be required.

Oh, and can someone PLEASE explain to me WTF "natural law" is and where it is in the Constitution? I've been looking and looking since bpc brought it up. I know my Constitution pretty well, but thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:05 PM   #262
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I got current events along with govt and poli sci. Also its fine to mention the Berlin Wall coming down and generalized meaning of it to young kids. But heavy politics in the 5th grade? no. They don't need to hear the corporation and ruining the world and make sure you buy an electric car BS in the 5th grade. Teach them math.
Why do you keep thinking a current events class would be some platform for progressives to indoctrinate children? Do you understand how paranoid that sounds?

Just in my common interaction with people, especially Americans, they are PAINFULLY unaware of both our world domestically and abroad. Their knowledge of Georgraphy is absolutely pitiful, as is their understanding of what is currently afflicting the globe. I don't know why teaching children who discovered the mississippi river is as important as these issues. Its not.

And in regards to your math comment, no one is suggesting 6 hours of current events!
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:13 PM   #263
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Why do you keep thinking a current events class would be some platform for progressives to indoctrinate children? Do you understand how paranoid that sounds?

Just in my common interaction with people, especially Americans, they are PAINFULLY unaware of both our world domestically and abroad. Their knowledge of Georgraphy is absolutely pitiful, as is their understanding of what is currently afflicting the globe. I don't know why teaching children who discovered the mississippi river is as important as these issues. Its not.

And in regards to your math comment, no one is suggesting 6 hours of current events!
All you have to do is watch one of Jay Leno's little weekly skits where he asks people on the street about our government, laws, history, current events, etc. It's ****ing terrifying.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:15 PM   #264
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All you have to do is watch one of Jay Leno's little weekly skits where he asks people on the street about our government, laws, history, current events, etc. It's ****ing terrifying.
Yeah, and to think, some of those people are scrap yard owners or paralegals in our very own societies.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:18 PM   #265
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Those are funny, but you know they film hundreds of people and only show the few ignorant remarks.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:23 PM   #266
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Those are funny, but you know they film hundreds of people and only show the few ignorant remarks.
I hope you're right.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:36 PM   #267
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Those are funny, but you know they film hundreds of people and only show the few ignorant remarks.
While those particular videos are designed to be funny, then do represent the reality of a massively uninformed country. The scientific polls, etc. demonstrate that very well.
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:34 PM   #268
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I hope you're right.
They dumb it down enough to entertain millions of viewers into feeling smarter than those people. The few viewers out there who don't know the answers won't think it's very funny. It wouldn't be a good skit if nobody got it.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:25 PM   #269
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Congrats to the opponents of "DOMA" on their SCOTUS victory.

Any blow to the snake handler agenda is a victory for America and for humanity in general.

Cite just about any example of forward progress or evolution in human history, and conservative idiots have invariably opposed it.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:42 AM   #270
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What's funny is that you're probably far more likely to get bias in a Catholic school than in a public school. The curriculum in a Catholic school is going to lean "Catholic" and "conservative", as are most of the teachers and administrators.
Unlike the Union Liberals that teach at the public school that always give an honest and unbiased POV on everything. Gotcha

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Have any of the people here talking about catholic school ever actually been to one?
I have, but Im also in Canada, more specifically in Ontario, and we have 2 publicly funded school systems ( biggest waste of money ever) The difference between Catholic and public is a religion class and a mass every few months, we learned about evolution and what not, we also spent 2 years in highschool learning about other religions of the world.

Sex ed was minimal in elementary school from what i can remember, but got the whole birds and bees thing first week in grade 9, no real talk about gay sex, no saying not to do it, no encouragement to do it.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:40 PM   #271
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Unlike the Union Liberals that teach at the public school that always give an honest and unbiased POV on everything. Gotcha
You might have a point in some schools and situations. But generally the teachers at suburban schools are just mostly young women and mothers from the community. They don't have some "union liberal" mentality. That's just silly. They're only in the union because they have to be. As I said, far more likely that a Catholic school would have a "conservative" lean (since probably close to 100% of them do) than a public school a "liberal" lean. I think my point clearly stands, and you made no good argument to the contrary.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:54 PM   #272
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26 years of catholic school between my wife and I. We were both taught abstinence and the "rhythm method". We were also taught that probably half of our class was a product of abstinence and the rhythm method.

I can only surmise that there was either some liberal plot to take over catholic educational doctrine, or that abstinence only education doesn't work.

And yes, you're far more likely to get bias in a parochial school. Public school teachers have enough to worry about as it is...parochial school teachers are actively recruited and instructed to teach dogma. Luckily some teachers ignore it.

That's not to say you wont get people abusing their power and promoting agendas that shouldn't be in public schools. But deal with them on an individual basis. Patents are simply not responsible when it comes to teaching their kids about the birds and the bees, and they haven't been for a long time.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:42 PM   #273
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26 years of catholic school between my wife and I. We were both taught abstinence and the "rhythm method". We were also taught that probably half of our class was a product of abstinence and the rhythm method.

I can only surmise that there was either some liberal plot to take over catholic educational doctrine, or that abstinence only education doesn't work.

And yes, you're far more likely to get bias in a parochial school. Public school teachers have enough to worry about as it is...parochial school teachers are actively recruited and instructed to teach dogma. Luckily some teachers ignore it.

That's not to say you wont get people abusing their power and promoting agendas that shouldn't be in public schools. But deal with them on an individual basis. Patents are simply not responsible when it comes to teaching their kids about the birds and the bees, and they haven't been for a long time.
Nobody said if you wanted to avoid getting pregnant, the Catholic program was the way to go.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:44 PM   #274
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Unlike the Union Liberals that teach at the public school that always give an honest and unbiased POV on everything. Gotcha
Have a close family member who's a public school teacher. Only reason they're not a union member? The NEA feels the need to have a pro-abortion plank in their platform.

Wrap your mind around that one for a minute.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:53 PM   #275
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Have a close family member who's a public school teacher. Only reason they're not a union member? The NEA feels the need to have a pro-abortion plank in their platform.

Wrap your mind around that one for a minute.
Is it pro-abortion or pro-choice? I suspect the latter.
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