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Old 06-29-2013, 08:30 AM   #76
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In a system where everyone is innocent until proven guilty, there are very few slam dunk cases for the prosecution.

Under Florida law they can convict for a lesser crime than was charged. The difference between 2nd degree murder and manslaughter will be, like I've been saying, dependent upon whether the prosecution is successful in linking Zimmerman's state of mind with his intentions, because under Florida law, if they can prove he followed with intent, it doesn't really matter who struck whom first.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:43 AM   #77
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Male witness testified bigger guy was on top beating smaller guy. Martin was 6'7". He wasn't the 12 yr old depicted in the pictures. White guilt gun hating idiots.
Really, 6'7" and you're calling others 'idiot'?
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:49 AM   #78
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Actually the police reports and the crime committed in the area is a matter of public record. Further, your neighborhood has nothing to do with it. And like I explained, he was exhibiting behavior that can be reasonably defined as odd to a neighborhood watchmen.

All of that however is irrelevant:

The crime committed by Martin is when he returned to Zimmerman and started a fight with him. To his credit, I guess, was that he was winning. And that's why he got shot, because Zimmerman though his life was in danger.
That is the crux.

From what I saw of his injuries, I wouldn't buy into that, unless it could be proven that he's such a milktoast, that he reasonably thought a couple of scratches and a bloody nose equals 'life threatening.'

Tough sell.

Edit: Just been reminded of the PA's testimony that Zimmerman had an MMA training regime 3 times a week. Again, 'life in danger'? A tough sell.

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Old 06-29-2013, 11:12 AM   #79
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Trayvon Martin was listed on his death certificate as 5'11" and 158 pounds.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:19 AM   #80
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Trayvon Martin was listed on his death certificate as 5'11" and 158 pounds.
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Originally Posted by DenverBrit
PA's testimony that Zimmerman had an MMA training regime 3 times a week. Again, 'life in danger'? A tough sell.
This plus Good's testimony where he says the bigger guy was on top. Yes, he describes the skin color and clothing color, but under cross examination admitted that the light that illuminated the area only went as far as his patio.

On a dark street (where you have light in between you and what you're looking at but not pointing at where you're looking...essentially washing it out), you're going to be much less likely to notice color, especially if the two people are on top of one another and moving around, than you would notice body size. Zimmerman clearly was the bigger body than Martin.

At least that's how I would be taking it as a juror based on the testimony I heard from the witness' mouths themselves, not on some partisan website.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:02 PM   #81
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Trayvon Martin was listed on his death certificate as 5'11" and 158 pounds.
Yes I was wrong. I just looked up his autopsy report. My bad.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:22 PM   #82
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Like I said. They didn't put it before a grand jury because they had to get this to trial. And they obviously felt it wouldn't, OR they would have out it in front of a Grand Jury.
It isn't what you said,they went to trial cause they had the evidence to do so. They wouldn't have gone to grand jury cuz there was never any need to.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:34 PM   #83
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Ane eye witness testified the darker skinned individual was on top, throwing down MMA style punches. Or that may have been added by police and he said throwing down punches and MMA go added later. Either way that will be enough for a couple jurors to say self defense. The case is over Zimmerman will walk.
Yes but 3 testified Zimmerman was on top.
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:03 PM   #84
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Yeah but one of those 3 admitted she got Martins size from the pictures of him on tv so she is compromised. The other said the guy in red on top, but another said the guy in red on the bottom. It sounds to me like it will be easy to believe both men at some point may have been on top but the witnesses just observed the fight at slightly different times.

Going to be tough for the jury and i would not want to be on it.
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Old 06-30-2013, 06:12 PM   #85
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Guilty.
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:52 PM   #86
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LMAO at 'MMA style punching'.
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:33 AM   #87
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Yes but 3 testified Zimmerman was on top.
Ever seen a fight on the ground? People roll around. The important distinction here is that when Martin was shot that he was on top and working over Zimmerman. Everything else is irrelevant at that point and the forensic evidence doesn't support Zimmerman being on top and firing down at Martin. Lastly, those witnesses did not have a good a view as the last and closest witness when Martin was actually shot.
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:34 AM   #88
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It isn't what you said,they went to trial cause they had the evidence to do so. They wouldn't have gone to grand jury cuz there was never any need to.
They went to trial because of political pressure and they by passed a Grand Jury to do it.
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:35 AM   #89
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I wonder if its true and the phrase MMA punches was added by a cop at the scene and not a witness. This is bad police work in some respects.
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:36 AM   #90
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I wonder if its true and the phrase MMA punches was added by a cop at the scene and not a witness. This is bad police work in some respects.
It's not a descriptor that changes anything. A punch is a punch.
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:10 AM   #91
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It's not a descriptor that changes anything. A punch is a punch.
You are clearly neither watching the trial not familiar enough with the legal system to realize how wrong you are. The use of that term and the prosecution's connection of that with the fact that he trained in MMA three times a week is very important to their case and could definitely influence the jury's understanding of the altercation.

Your responses in bold are nothing but repeated flailing attempts to defend the guy without paying attention to the actual case. What about the inconsistencies in Zimmerman's story? What about his statements on the phone calls? What about his statement about there being bushes when there were no bushes there?

For someone with "no dog in this race", you're sure taking a pretty one-sided stance on this, from claiming it shouldn't go to trial in the first place to believing everything Zimmerman said, ignoring the inconsistencies in his story and everyone else's testimony.

You're so impartial.
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:23 AM   #92
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You are clearly neither watching the trial not familiar enough with the legal system to realize how wrong you are. The use of that term and the prosecution's connection of that with the fact that he trained in MMA three times a week is very important to their case and could definitely influence the jury's understanding of the altercation.

Your responses in bold are nothing but repeated flailing attempts to defend the guy without paying attention to the actual case. What about the inconsistencies in Zimmerman's story? What about his statements on the phone calls? What about his statement about there being bushes when there were no bushes there?

For someone with "no dog in this race", you're sure taking a pretty one-sided stance on this, from claiming it shouldn't go to trial in the first place to believing everything Zimmerman said, ignoring the inconsistencies in his story and everyone else's testimony.

You're so impartial.
There are no inconsistencies in his story that aren't considered natural in remembering a traumatic event. The term "ground and pound" merely makes reference to being pinned down and getting punched, more typically in a defenseless manner. His statements on the phones are irrelevant in the sense that his statements on the phone didn't put anyone's life at risk nor were they illegal or inappropriate. They do match up with someone who's interested in the security of their neighborhood. It's not a matter of believing everything of what Zimmerman states and everything to do with there being no one alive to refute it and the forensic evidence being consistence with his account.

And what Isaid was. "There is a reason this didn't go to trial in the first place." That reason is the states case is weak. Especially for murder 2. Now manslaughter is a different matter.

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Old 07-01-2013, 10:45 AM   #93
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There are no inconsistencies in his story that aren't considered natural in remembering a traumatic event. The term "ground and pound" merely makes reference to being pinned down and getting punched, more typically in a defenseless manner. His statements on the phones are irrelevant in the sense that his statements on the phone didn't put anyone's life at risk nor were they illegal or inappropriate. They do match up with someone who's interested in the security of their neighborhood. It's not a matter of believing everything of what Zimmerman states and everything to do with there being no one alive to refute it and the forensic evidence being consistence with his account.

And what Isaid was. "There is a reason this didn't go to trial in the first place." That reason is the states case is weak. Especially for murder 2. Now manslaughter is a different matter.
His statements on the phone are most certainly relevant, and as I pointed out to you, are the REASON they went with Murder 2 and not manslaughter.

Your irrational concern for the future of gun rights based on the result of this case is clouding your view of the facts being presented in the case. There are major inconsistencies. Saying he ducked into some bushes when there was nothing of that sort is very difficult to pin as "misremembering".

Our judicial system gives presumption of innocence, it does not give presumption of telling the truth. There are major inconsistencies, and they need to be explained to the jury.

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Old 07-01-2013, 12:12 PM   #94
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Prosecuters seem pretty good but the witness today was sympathetic to Zimmerman. Wierd usually the cops don't frustrate a prosecutor like that. The cop who took his statement seemed sort of pro zimmerman IMO.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:15 PM   #95
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I think if it doesn't get worst for defense soon they may not put Zimmerman on the stand. They may just say you have heard testimoney from good people and its obvious there is reasonable doubt here. The one witness who said she was on the phone when it started confirmed it was Martin who profiled Zimmerman as a cracker. Then she got caught in some lies and come off as pretty street. A few jurors may find her not credible.

You never know what juries will do though but murder 2 seems like a reach.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:19 PM   #96
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I think if it doesn't get worst for defense soon they may not put Zimmerman on the stand. They may just say you have heard testimoney from good people and its obvious there is reasonable doubt here. The one witness who said she was on the phone when it started confirmed it was Martin who profiled Zimmerman as a cracker. Then she got caught in some lies and come off as pretty street. A few jurors may find her not credible.

You never know what juries will do though but murder 2 seems like a reach.
It's a big reach to say martin profiled Zimmerman,you can even say it's outright lie. You just got to listen to the 911 tapes to know Zimmerman profiled martin.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:22 PM   #97
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It's a big reach to say martin profiled Zimmerman,you can even say it's outright lie. You just got to listen to the 911 tapes to know Zimmerman profiled martin.
"profiling" someone isn't illegal. But no, if you're going to say GZ profiled Martin, then MArtin did the same thing. Either way, it's irrelevant in the case.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:23 PM   #98
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It's a big reach to say martin profiled Zimmerman,you can even say it's outright lie. You just got to listen to the 911 tapes to know Zimmerman profiled martin.
Well he said some crazy cracker following me lol. That shows he will use racial slurs before he attacks someone either in self defense or not.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:40 PM   #99
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Referring someone as cracker isn't profiling. Assuming someone is doing something wrong because they are black is ,which is what Zimmerman was doing.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:59 PM   #100
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Referring someone as cracker isn't profilingYes it is and MArtin did say this according to his friend. Assuming someone is doing something wrong because they are black is ,which is what Zimmerman was doingThat's your opinion and not based on any facts. I must have missed in the recordings where Zimmerman used a racial slur like say Martin did..
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