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Old 06-25-2013, 09:54 AM   #151
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I've had prayers answered before. In fact I have only prayed really hard for something a few times and God came through 4 out 5 times. My brother finding a bone marrow donor the big one. The lady that was his donor is deeply religious and said she one morning she awoke and decided she could do more for others. In her research on things she could do to help she came upon the bone marrow registry and what it did for people. Long story short she signed up and 4 weeks later was saving my brother life. Without her he would be dead.

Knowing that god intervened in my brothers life was an eye opening experience for me. Anyone who thinks god hasn't played a role in people lives is very short sighted. He works in mysterious ways friends way beyond what science could ever explain. Looking for science to prove there is no god, or is a god is very foolish.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:57 AM   #152
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Well, if a God does exist, and has the ability to intervene in our lives, then there is no other rational conclusion to draw but that that God is a truly evil tyrant (sadistic, really), totally unworthy of worship.

If you found out that a particular individual could have prevented the murder and rape of a child but chose not to, what conclusions would you draw about this person? Or what if they had the power to prevent a tsunami that results in the deaths of thousands, but again chooses not to? And, please, spare me some variation of "God works in mysterious ways."
It's either that or a "gold is better after tested in fire" argument...which is where the sadism comes in.

But that's a very good question...I wonder what the conservative religious response would be to Benghazi if the administration had just said "The President works in mysterious ways, guys. Mere citizens cannot know or understand." Seems like a bit of a double standard to demonize a guy who may have been able to prevent a terrorist attack, yet continually make excuses for the motives of someone who can supposedly literally stop any bad thing from happening anywhere at any time, doesn't it?



And Tony, to your article, that's an interesting summary of the question of spirituality and belief in God in the first place. Oh, the sweet irony of an idea invented (or at least perpetuated) to help people cope with the trials of life which actually causes more emotional pain than it eases.

Personally as a non-religious person, I'm terrified of death. But when I mull things over, I find that it's more because I realize that I still have a lot more left to do, and to die without accomplishing it would not only cut my dreams short, but sell my family and children short as well. I'm sure as I get older and the tapestry of my life unfolds, I'll be able to see the whole picture more clearly and appreciate where I've been and what I've done.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:02 AM   #153
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Well, if a God does exist, and has the ability to intervene in our lives, then there is no other rational conclusion to draw but that that God is a truly evil tyrant (sadistic, really), totally unworthy of worship.

If you found out that a particular individual could have prevented the murder and rape of a child but chose not to, what conclusions would you draw about this person? Or what if they had the power to prevent a tsunami that results in the deaths of thousands, but again chooses not to? And, please, spare me some variation of "God works in mysterious ways."
Well, I don't want to hijack the thread too much down this road. But I think the doctrine is that it's mankind and his decisions which made utopia impossible. Look around society today and it's hard to argue against that point definitively.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:03 AM   #154
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They're saying now that the NSA has been black mailing SCotUS justices, Reps, and god knows who else.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:06 AM   #155
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Well, I don't want to hijack the thread too much down this road. But I think the doctrine is that it's mankind and his decisions which made utopia impossible.
What do "mankind and his decisions" have to do with a tsunami or an earthquake, or some other "act of God" that results in death and hardship?

Would you give a person a pass if you found out that they had the power to prevent the murder of a two year old? Literally, stop it from happening? If not, why should the same standards not be applied to a god? Are you really satisfied with a "man and his decisions" type of argument when comes to such a thing? Or do you simply stop thinking at this point and reach for your handy "God works in mysterious ways" crutch?
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:17 AM   #156
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What do "mankind and his decisions" have to do with a tsunami or an earthquake, or some other "act of God" that results in death and hardship?

Would you give a person a pass if you found out that they had the power to prevent the murder of a two year old? Literally, stop it from happening? If not, why should the same standards not be applied to a god? Are you really satisfied with a "man and his decisions" type of argument when comes to such a thing? Or do you simply stop thinking at this point and reach for your handy "God works in mysterious ways" crutch?
I'm not going to derail the thread any more on this here. Feel free to start a new one if you're really interested in a discussion on that. On the way over, ask yourself, would any of it ever have any possibility of really changing your mind? If not, why beat each other up?
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:21 AM   #157
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I'm not going to derail the thread any more on this here.
You're the one who started the thread down that path.

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On the way over, ask yourself, would any of it ever have any possibility of really changing your mind? If not, why beat each other up?
Do you know what forum you're in? Do you expect me to believe that you post here out of a pure desire to change hearts and minds, when so many of your posts drip with contempt?

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Old 06-25-2013, 11:07 AM   #158
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You're the one who started the thread down that path.
Read again.

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Do you know what forum you're in? Do you expect me to believe that you post here out of a pure desire to change hearts and minds, when so many of your posts drip with contempt?
Politics and religion are different. Or at least should be.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:09 AM   #159
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Politics and religion are different. Or at least should be.
Really? Do you mean to say that your religious beliefs are more sacred than anothers political beliefs?

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Old 06-25-2013, 12:18 PM   #160
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Really? Do you mean to say that your religious beliefs are more sacred than anothers political beliefs?
Can only speak to my beliefs. Not yours.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:24 PM   #161
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They're saying now that the NSA has been black mailing SCotUS justices, Reps, and god knows who else.
Who?
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:39 AM   #162
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Can only speak to my beliefs. Not yours.
So, basically, you feel justified in calling into question and even ridiculing the beliefs of others, but you expect your religious beliefs to be treated with kid gloves. Typical. There's no reason religious beliefs should not be held to the same standards of debate as any other belief. Your belief in a god is due no more deference than the belief of someone else in abortion rights or a single payer insurance system (etc).

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Old 06-26-2013, 06:02 AM   #163
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So, basically, you feel justified in calling into question and even ridiculing the beliefs of others, but you expect your religious beliefs to be treated with kid gloves. Typical. There's no reason religious beliefs should not be held to the same standards of debate as any other belief. Your belief in a god is due no more deference than the belief of someone else in abortion rights or a single payer insurance system (etc).
See. It is true. Politics is your guys' religion.

Regardless. I didn't say I wouldn't discuss it. I have before. Just not here. I know you guys would love to discuss anything and everything but the Transparenceh Presidency.
But I'm not taking this particular bait.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:20 AM   #164
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See. It is true. Politics is your guys' religion.
And there you go proving my point. In any case, personal beliefs - religious or otherwise - are due deference in-so-far as they are kept private. But once you choose to interject your beliefs (whatever they may be) into a public debate, then they are fair game.

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Regardless. I didn't say I wouldn't discuss it. I have before. Just not here.
By "not here" you mean only this thread, correct? That's incredibly silly. What difference does it make? Seems like a deflection to me.

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I know you guys would love to discuss anything and everything but the Transparenceh Presidency.
Several of us have expressed our disappointment with Obama (unlike boot-lickers like you did with your boy Bush). There seems to be a near consensus agreement between the left and right (on this board at least) regarding the CIA breach (for one example).

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But I'm not taking this particular bait.
Bait....you mean like your "Transparenceh Presidency" comment above? In any case, I'm not sure how I'm baiting you when our current back and forth started when I responded to comment you made.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:22 AM   #165
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By "not here" you mean only this thread, correct? That's incredibly silly. What difference does it make? Seems like a deflection to me.
And to me, in this thread, it seems like a prototypical red herring. I apologize for addressing it at all in the first place. If you really want to talk about it instead of avoiding talking about Snowden, start a thread. Have at it.

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Bait....you mean like your "Transparenceh Presidency" comment above? In any case, I'm not sure how I'm baiting you when our current back and forth started when I responded to comment you made.
Well, if it was bait, at least it was relevant bait.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:07 AM   #166
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I’m going to make a prediction here: Snowden isn’t going to Ecuador. He’s staying in Russia. Why? Because that’s what “free men” with troves of valuable data—just look at how hard the White House is fighting to get him back—and even more valuable revenge potential do when they take a strange detour to South America through Moscow and, mysteriously, get stuck. …

Putin said that Russian security services—which, again, are swarming the airport—”have not and are not working” with Snowden. Feels like there’s a missing word there, like, oh, I don’t know, “yet.” I’m going to call bull**** on that one, but if you don’t believe me, listen to Ellen Barry, the Pulitzer Prize-winning Moscow Bureau Chief for the Times. “If #Snowden’s been at Sheremetyevo all this time but FSB did not approach, it’s like a hungry man looking at a hamburger and not touching it,” she tweeted. (A Russian security source told a Reuters reporter that “he is a tasty morsel for any, any, secret service, also for ours.”)

I promise you, dear reader, that that hamburger—or tasty morsel—will get eaten, if it hasn’t been devoured already.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...a-angela-davis
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:12 AM   #167
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I've had prayers answered before. In fact I have only prayed really hard for something a few times and God came through 4 out 5 times. My brother finding a bone marrow donor the big one. The lady that was his donor is deeply religious and said she one morning she awoke and decided she could do more for others. In her research on things she could do to help she came upon the bone marrow registry and what it did for people. Long story short she signed up and 4 weeks later was saving my brother life. Without her he would be dead.
Glad things worked out for your brother, but still:



Why did god save your brother, and not 2500 toddlers/year who die of cancer? Are you an extra good pray-er?

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Old 06-27-2013, 10:36 AM   #168
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Glad things worked out for your brother, but still:



Why did god save your brother, and not 2500 toddlers/year who die of cancer? Are you an extra good pray-er?
Because he prayed. Duh.

None of those kids at Newtown did, though. Besides, god loves guns and hates cancer. It was a no brainer.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:45 AM   #169
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I even pray for fools like Houghtam to get a job and stop living off his wife.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:47 AM   #170
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I even pray for fools like Houghtam to get a job and stop living off his wife.
He and his wife seem happy with the arrangement. What's your beef? Why is it a problem for the woman to be the breadwinner in a relationship?
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:48 AM   #171
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I saw your comment Beavis. Nice wiff on the sarcasm detector.

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Old 06-27-2013, 11:02 AM   #172
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I saw your comment Beavis. Nice wiff on the sarcasm detector.

It just occurred to me that I was going down the same road I already said I should't have taken (in this thread)

And if you're implying Hough's being sarcastic, I'm not sure that's the case. Maybe mockery is a form of sarcasm. But regardless that wouldn't change what I said.

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Old 06-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #173
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And if you're implying Hough's being sarcastic, I'm not sure that's the case. Maybe mockery is a form of sarcasm. But regardless that wouldn't change what I said.
"Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter gibe or taunt."[1][2] In modern usage, the word "sarcasm" is commonly interpreted as involving irony,[3] or employs ambivalence,[4] but traditionally sarcasm was not necessarily irony."

Though perhaps the better synonym to use would have been sardonic.
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:01 AM   #174
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“They’re reporting classified ****. Moreover, who the **** are the anonymous sources telling them this? Those people should be shot in the balls.”
– Edward Snowden on leakers, in 2009.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/edwar...-in-the-balls/
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:50 AM   #175
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– Edward Snowden on leakers, in 2009.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/edwar...-in-the-balls/
Interesting stuff. I still haven't made a judgment call whether this guy should be considered a hero, or a traitor. I'm sure the conspiracy lovers among us will call this the first salvo in the smear campaign against Snowden. Then again, maybe he's just a shallow, little, self-centered dweeb? Always the danger with these cases. Keep holding up the lamp, looking for the truth.

I'm just glad the government has been made highly uncomfortable by these revelations. What they've been doing is a clear violation of the 4th amendment, IMHO.
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