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Old 06-27-2013, 10:22 AM   #176
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If I ended up on an island with 300 other gay people I'd kill myself within a year or start picking them off one by one in my own version of the hunger games.

There can only be one.

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Old 06-27-2013, 10:27 AM   #177
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At first glance I understand where you're coming from. But I don't think the focus needs to be on sexuality. Whether love or a marriage is gay or straight shouldn't really make a difference, should it? Why does one bring forth more sexuality than the other?
I've had kindergartners. And one had a kid in his class with two dads (so to speak.) And for the most part, at that age, it doesn't even occur to most of them that there's anything right or wrong with that, to the extent they even know about it. It just is what it is. Lots of other kids only have a mom. Or foster parents. Or guardian grandparents.

I'm not sure why we have to draw up pigeonholes from our own preconceptions right off the bat and force our kids into them. Let them have their own experiences and give them time to ask their own questions. That's the best way to learn (especially around good parents)

The state's role is the backstop, not the center. They're only there just in case the best method got skipped.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #178
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I'm not sure what anyone here is really for or against. But there are some pretty incredibly ridiculous ideas out there.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2...indergartners/

In reality, each kid is different. And as a parent, you need to be conscious of where your kid is as you communicate this stuff to them. School-based sex ed should only serve as a backup, teaching what most good parents likely already taught. It should only exist because in the real world (sadly) there's a good chunk of kids out there whose parents don't give a crap either way.

In this example (Chicago) though, they're preempting what most parents would consider to be appropriate timing. I guess in the name of getting the State's version of events in first. Just another case of public schools using incredibly poor judgement that harms kids to ultimately political ends.

Which is why none of it should ever be made mandatory for any reason.
As long as the "state's version" of sex Ed is based on science, it most certainly SHOULD be mandatory.

You wouldn't believe some of the answers kids gave in my health class in high school. And this is at a parochial school where people's parents are supposedly at home teaching them the "right" sex Ed straight from god's mouth. I can only imagine what those heathen public school kids' parents taught them. But in either case, it wasn't based on anything you could call "science".

I think the real problem here is that you and every other parent out there opposed to someone teaching your kids about their bodies is that you're confusing science with morality. It's the equivalent of not wanting your kid to learn evolution because the bible says we didn't come from monkeys.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:41 AM   #179
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As long as the "state's version" of sex Ed is based on science, it most certainly SHOULD be mandatory.

You wouldn't believe some of the answers kids gave in my health class in high school. And this is at a parochial school where people's parents are supposedly at home teaching them the "right" sex Ed straight from god's mouth. I can only imagine what those heathen public school kids' parents taught them. But in either case, it wasn't based on anything you could call "science".

I think the real problem here is that you and every other parent out there opposed to someone teaching your kids about their bodies is that you're confusing science with morality. It's the equivalent of not wanting your kid to learn evolution because the bible says we didn't come from monkeys.
Ah yes, freedom of religion must bow to the collective yet again.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:47 AM   #180
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Ah yes, freedom of religion must bow to the collective yet again.
So we should continue to teach sorcery over science?
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:53 AM   #181
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So we should continue to teach sorcery over science?

Science is a wonderful thing, but amoral. And I dont mean its inherently evil. But science is pure fact, there is nothing there to gather from a moral standpoint. Its void of it.

Religion/spirituality/whatever has a role in human existence, and should not be automatically shoved to the side or dismissed with hostility. Our culture would be better off if both spheres are taught and applied. Science does not have all the answers. Religion does not either. So why praise one and trash the other? The fundamentalist scientist is just as bad as the religious fundamentalist.

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Old 06-27-2013, 10:59 AM   #182
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So we should continue to teach sorcery over science?
Would you ban Catholic Schools? Let's just go ahead and get this out there. Let us see the full on progressive vision of "Civil Liberty"
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:03 AM   #183
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Science is a wonderful thing, but amoral. And I dont mean its inherently evil. But science is pure fact, there is nothing there to gather from a moral standpoint. Its void of it.

Religion/spirituality/whatever has a role in human existence, and should not be automatically shoved to the side or dismissed with hostility. Our culture would be better off if both spheres are taught and applied. Science does not have all the answers. Religion does not either. So why praise one and trash the other? The fundamentalist scientist is just as bad as the religious fundamentalist.

Nameste.

Why embrace something to guide morality which is dishonest to the core? Fairy tales (presented at truth to distract from arbitrary derived "morality") are not necessary.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:07 AM   #184
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Why embrace something to guide morality which is dishonest to the core? Fairy tales (presented at truth to distract from arbitrary derived "morality") are not necessary.

...Necessary to you. Other people feel differently. If it does not suddenly invalidate scientific fact because people draw strength from a religious world view. I am not also advocating equal time in a classroom. School is a place for fact and learning how to think. Religion/spirituality/humanism should be taught at home.

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Old 06-27-2013, 11:07 AM   #185
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Why embrace something to guide morality which is dishonest to the core? Fairy tales (presented at truth to distract from arbitrary derived "morality") are not necessary.
"Science is Truth" is one of the shallower philosophical thoughts I've heard.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:17 AM   #186
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...Necessary to you. Other people feel differently. If it does not suddenly invalidate scientific fact because people draw strength from a religious world view.
Didn't say that. People also draw strength, moral lessons and other lessons from Superman. Good for both groups.

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I am not also advocating equal time in a classroom. School is a place for fact and learning how to think. Religion/spirituality/humanism should be taught at home.
Educating children -- whether it be facts or on morals -- is a job for the village, not just the parents. Should ethics classes be removed from school? Should teachers not discipline misbehaving children and instruct them on how to behave?
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:17 AM   #187
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"Science is Truth" is one of the shallower philosophical thoughts I've heard.
Oh look, an ad hominem. Fun!
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:23 AM   #188
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Would you ban Catholic Schools? Let's just go ahead and get this out there. Let us see the full on progressive vision of "Civil Liberty"
No, i wouldnt ban anything, and I think time will wash religion away. It might be A LOT of time, but unless the voice of "God" shouts from the skies in the next 500-1000 years, I think it'll go to the fringe.

I do, however, thinks its poisonous to teach kids that the Earth is only a few thousand years old and also counter productive to have dishonest conversations about sex with them.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:27 AM   #189
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Yes, Chris, there is a place for both science and religion. I would even be in favor of discussing an opt-in program for, say, History of World Religions, or Biblical Texts as Literature courses.

The problem MOST people who are against teaching religion alongside science, as if they are equals. They are not. One has a very specific set of rules and guidelines that are repeatable and for the most part provable. Religion is based off oral tradition. They are not comparable in the least.

Edit: I just read your clarification. Oh my God I just did an errand drive by!
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:35 AM   #190
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...Necessary to you. Other people feel differently. If it does not suddenly invalidate scientific fact because people draw strength from a religious world view. I am not also advocating equal time in a classroom. School is a place for fact and learning how to think. Religion/spirituality/humanism should be taught at home.

I can agree with this.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:37 AM   #191
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Could ask a lot of questions about your post but for no I'll focus on this part.

Again, if kids learn it's a "natural thing" what would happen? Would the kids turn "bad"? Would they turn gay? What are you afraid of?
Don't force your lifestyle on my kids, just like I don't force church or religion on yours per your request. No harm, no foul. Might work for some folks, but it's my choice of what I want to expose my kids to. I'll have those discussions with them, not some left wing liberal society spewing a bunch of their nonsense.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:39 AM   #192
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If the ability to reproduce is a prerequisite of marriage, there are a lot of people who are in trouble.

If you put a colony of sterile and infertile people on an island, what would their future look like? I think that says a lot right there.
Spin. Spin. Spin. Nobody said reproduction was a prerequisite of marriage but you.

Nature's law my friend. It doesn't lie.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:40 AM   #193
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Spin. Spin. Spin. Nobody said reproduction was a prerequisite of marriage but you.

Nature's law my friend. It doesn't lie.
Actually, thats def one of the anti-gay marriage talking points. And its non-sensical.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:40 AM   #194
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WTF are you even talking about? Why does this threaten you so much?
It doesn't threaten me and it won't. That's the point. Why does church threaten people so much? It's up to YOU on what you want exposed to your kids so i'm merely invoking my right as a parent.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:42 AM   #195
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It doesn't threaten me and it won't. That's the point. Why does church threaten people so much? It's up to YOU on what you want exposed to your kids so i'm merely invoking my right as a parent.
Now you're speaking to a much different point. Religion doesn't threaten me until it seeps its way into public policy. if you want to teach your kids your religion at home, if you want to take them to church, have at. If you are anti-gay marriage because of religious beliefs, and then want to use those beliefs to make a law, then that's unacceptable. Sorry if this is some "liberal agenda" ya know, being tolerant.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:45 AM   #196
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Would you ban Catholic Schools? Let's just go ahead and get this out there. Let us see the full on progressive vision of "Civil Liberty"
Obama would and he's a good source for what the mainstream, progressive liberal conscience is.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:45 AM   #197
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...Necessary to you. Other people feel differently. If it does not suddenly invalidate scientific fact because people draw strength from a religious world view. I am not also advocating equal time in a classroom. School is a place for fact and learning how to think. Religion/spirituality/humanism should be taught at home.

Spot on take.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:46 AM   #198
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It doesn't threaten me and it won't. That's the point. Why does church threaten people so much? It's up to YOU on what you want exposed to your kids so i'm merely invoking my right as a parent.
Talking about a religion and forcing the practice of a religion (or behavior compliant with that religion through law or other force) on someone are entirely different beasts.

Likewise, having people talk to your kids about homosexuality is not the same thing as coercing them to somehow participate in it.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:46 AM   #199
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Spot on take.
Care to answer the questions I posed to that?
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:47 AM   #200
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Actually, thats def one of the anti-gay marriage talking points. And its non-sensical.
It's not one of my talking points so you can leave it out when discussing the topic between us, here and now. I don't really care if guy and guy want to be married. Just respect wishes to keep what goes on in your home, in your home... same for relationships, spirituality, etc.
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