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Old 06-20-2013, 05:46 PM   #26
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Obviously I am thrilled PM is on our team and IMO is the biggest difference maker on our team. But after him, it's all about Von Miller. He is the biggest difference maker on our defense and he's just a baby and will only get better. Could be the best defensive player in the NFL this year, and could have easily been the DMVP last year also.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:42 PM   #27
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[QUOTE=Bacchus;3865427]So Elvis is not in the top 25 pass rushers?? He'll get at least 14 sacks this year.

I'll take the under on that for sure. Doom gets maybe 10 sacks.
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:02 PM   #28
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A healthy Doom could get you between 12-14 sacks. Since his injury his shoulder seems to get banged up for a few games and that slows him down. I say he gets 11.5 next year. Our DE's that replace him combine for 12.
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:31 PM   #29
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A healthy Doom could get you between 12-14 sacks. Since his injury his shoulder seems to get banged up for a few games and that slows him down. I say he gets 11.5 next year. Our DE's that replace him combine for 12.
I'll take the under for $20
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:33 PM   #30
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I'll take the under for $20
Under for what? Doom or the guys that we replaced him with?
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:42 PM   #31
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Under for what? Doom or the guys that we replaced him with?
Doom. I doubt he will get 11 sacks.

I think he is on the down side of his career. He was always an over achiever and I think his pectoral injury hampers him still.

I also think Elway and JDR had downgraded his value and Doom got butt hurt over it. Denial is not a river in Doom's case.

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Old 06-20-2013, 07:48 PM   #32
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Doom. I doubt he will get 11 sacks.

I think he is on the down side of his career
At 30? I don't see him hitting that for at least 2 more seasons.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:05 PM   #33
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At 30? I don't see him hitting that for at least 2 more seasons.
His injury has hindered his effectiveness.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:15 PM   #34
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His injury has hindered his effectiveness.
If he hurt his knee then I would have agreed with you. He hurt his peck like 3 years ago.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:24 PM   #35
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If he hurt his knee then I would have agreed with you. He hurt his peck like 3 years ago.

So much of his game is in his long arms and his power to pull down a qb at arms length. It's this aspect of his game that is not what it was and JDR & Elway are well aware of that.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:30 PM   #36
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So much of his game is in his long arms and his power to pull down a qb at arms length. It's this aspect of his game that is not what it was and JDR & Elway are well aware of that.
you just like to argue. He is 30 with one major injury like 3 years ago. He had 11 sacks last year, yeah he is slipping.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:31 PM   #37
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you just like to argue. He is 30 with one major injury like 3 years ago. He had 11 sacks last year, yeah he is slipping.
OK take the bet.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:49 PM   #38
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List is just "edge rushers," so no Watt.

And Aldon Smith is just 6th ... behind Cameron Wake?!

Stupid list.
Id take Wake over Smith any day of the week. He is a much better player IMO.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:08 AM   #39
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Id take Wake over Smith any day of the week. He is a much better player IMO.
Aldon was nothing special without Justin there to take up blockers. Don't forget the rest of the cast as well. People forget just how much of an advantage Aldon has had by playing in SF. Aldon isn't horrid or anything, but Wake did more with less relatively speaking. That's why it's scary to think what Von could do with a nasty interior and hopefully another PR threat like a Doom on the other side.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:15 AM   #40
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Half of Aldon's Sacks came because Justin Smith literally held his blocker. Look at his sack reel.

0 sacks for Aldon with Justin Smith out the lineup in THREE games

Von/Watt >>>>>> Aldon
... my point was about Cameron Wake. And JJ Watt is not part of this list, this is just edge-rushers.

You make decent points, but kinda one-sided and incomplete, to wit:
  • Von Miller had three straight sackless games too, finished 2011 reg season like that
  • But Aldon Smith went even more than the 3 you mentioned, he went SIX straight w/o a sack - none in 3 playoff games
  • Justin Smith is money for his brother Aldon (49ers extended him today), but Von had Elvis Dumervil alongside both his seasons ... two Pro Bowl years for Elvis, who more than doubled Justin Smith's sack totals

The numbers are all over the place. I agree Von's a better pass-rusher, but not by much. Aldon has bested him in sacks both seasons, let's wait 'til Von beats his numbers before we go with your >>>>>>>>>>. For now I'll say >>>.

Pretty easy to rank them overall...

Ranking all pass rushers:

1. JJ Watt >>>>>>
2. Von Miller >>>
3. Aldon Smith
. . . . . . then the rest . . . . . .
Matthews, Suggs, Ware, Wake, etc ....

That's the list. If somebody disagree, they're not paying attention or they just don't get it.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:48 AM   #41
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Last couple posts ... you guys make good points about Wake over Smith as an overall player, but we're talking just pass-rushing here. And in my opinion, numbers matter. I don't care if Justin Smith took a crowbar out there and knee-capped Aldon's blocker on every down ... Aldon had 19.5 sacks 13 games in ... on pace to break Strahan/Gastineau's record. And he had 14 sacks as a rook despite not starting at all, and getting very few snaps the first three weeks. Those are eye-popping numbers ... numbers Cameron Wake can't match. Wake has averaged 10.75 sacks over four seasons ... less than Elvis.

And let's get really real ... the thread title is wrong, he's not the best pass-rusher in the league. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Von, in fact I'm 'bout ready to go gay for that Warby Parker wearing Urkel-sack-machine, but he's not the best pass-rusher in the league.
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:53 AM   #42
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And let's get really real ... the thread title is wrong, he's not the best pass-rusher in the league. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Von, in fact I'm 'bout ready to go gay for that Warby Parker wearing Urkel-sack-machine, but he's not the best pass-rusher in the league.
I totally disagree. Von is the best pure pass rusher in the league. But then you seem to think sack totals are all it's about...
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:03 AM   #43
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... my point was about Cameron Wake. And JJ Watt is not part of this list, this is just edge-rushers.

You make decent points, but kinda one-sided and incomplete, to wit:
  • Von Miller had three straight sackless games too, finished 2011 reg season like that
  • But Aldon Smith went even more than the 3 you mentioned, he went SIX straight w/o a sack - none in 3 playoff games
  • Justin Smith is money for his brother Aldon (49ers extended him today), but Von had Elvis Dumervil alongside both his seasons ... two Pro Bowl years for Elvis, who more than doubled Justin Smith's sack totals

The numbers are all over the place. I agree Von's a better pass-rusher, but not by much. Aldon has bested him in sacks both seasons, let's wait 'til Von beats his numbers before we go with your >>>>>>>>>>. For now I'll say >>>.

Pretty easy to rank them overall...

Ranking all pass rushers:

1. JJ Watt >>>>>>
2. Von Miller >>>
3. Aldon Smith
. . . . . . then the rest . . . . . .
Matthews, Suggs, Ware, Wake, etc ....

That's the list. If somebody disagree, they're not paying attention or they just don't get it.
Aldon lines up NEXT to Justin Smith. Von lines up across from Elvis. Looking at film you can literally see Justin Smith holding and grabbing the tackle blocking Aldon, or Justin holding the Gaurd and Tackle when Aldon stunts inside. and yeah SIX straight games without a sack for Aldon, whereas Von didn't have a sack in three games because one of his hands was turned into a CLUB(look at my profile pic).
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:40 AM   #44
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Aldon lines up NEXT to Justin Smith. Von lines up across from Elvis. Looking at film you can literally see Justin Smith holding and grabbing the tackle blocking Aldon, or Justin holding the Gaurd and Tackle when Aldon stunts inside. and yeah SIX straight games without a sack for Aldon, whereas Von didn't have a sack in three games because one of his hands was turned into a CLUB(look at my profile pic).
This is exactly right. Aldon is great pass rusher, but Smith helps his numbers a ton. Hes such a distributive force that teams have to double him a majority of the time. And like others have said, without Smith, Aldon hasnt accumulated sacks.

Ive watched a lot of Niners games living here in norcal, and most of my friends are niners fans, and every single one agrees Von is a much better pass rusher than Smith.

Last edited by NorCalBronco7; 06-23-2013 at 10:41 AM..
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:25 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by BroncoBuff View Post
Pretty easy to rank them overall...

Ranking all pass rushers:

1. JJ Watt >>>>>>
2. Von Miller >>>
3. Aldon Smith
. . . . . . then the rest . . . . . .
Matthews, Suggs, Ware, Wake, etc ....

That's the list. If somebody disagree, they're not paying attention or they just don't get it.
Or they don't just look at sack totals...

Percentage of pass rushes resulting in QB pressures:
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:13 AM   #46
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I know Ware didn't have a big yr last yr but elevating young players over pros too early can be a mistake.

I still think Ware has a few more tricks to the QB then Miller. No doubt Miller's bull rush from a linebacker is something quite frankly I'm not sure I have seen before lol. It seems so easy for him sometimes its like he has Jumpy Geathers forklift move power in his bull rush.

But i have seen Ware just kill the QB for so many yrs I still think he's the best outside rusher. Maybe though time has past him by now. I am an old fart and still like players like Reggie Wayne and Tony G.
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:17 AM   #47
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This is exactly right. Aldon is great pass rusher, but Smith helps his numbers a ton. Hes such a distributive force that teams have to double him a majority of the time. And like others have said, without Smith, Aldon hasnt accumulated sacks.

Ive watched a lot of Niners games living here in norcal, and most of my friends are niners fans, and every single one agrees Von is a much better pass rusher than Miller.
I agree. Justin Smith open up these huge inside lanes and Aldon scream in. I'm really hoping Knighton and Sly can do that for Miller a little bit more this yr. Aldon Smith is a killer player though but I think Miller has to work harder for his sacks. Right now IMO the Niners defense about 2 stud players better then us. Namely Justin Smith and Patrick Willis. If the Broncos had those two holy cow just think how good we would be. The niners have a talented front 7.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:44 AM   #48
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Greg Hardy - DL - Panthers

Panthers RE Greg Hardy said his personal goal is to record 50 sacks this season.
That would more than double Michael Strahan's single-season record of 22.5 sacks. Needless to say, we don't share Hardy's optimism. That being said, Hardy emerged last season as a dominant pass rusher, and a sack total in the high teens is certainly within the realm of possibility. Rotoworld's IDP maven Jeff Ratcliffe likes Hardy as a Top 10 defensive end for 2013.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:46 AM   #49
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Only see one problem with VON......the defense has to get the O into third and long to allow him to actually rush.

I mean with the right Offense he gets put into coverage doing us no good at least getting to the QB anyway.
Our offense needs to do their part too. Get a lead early and stay on the gas forcing teams to pass way more than they want to.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:56 AM   #50
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Id take Wake over Smith any day of the week. He is a much better player IMO.
Man, I'm a Penn State fanboy and even I'm shaking my head at this.
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