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Old 06-13-2013, 09:41 PM   #451
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This nerd fight is escalating to the point of morbid curiosity.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:52 PM   #452
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This just reminded me that when I looked at a dual shock controller earlier today I realized that there's no way I can switch. Man are those things effing horrible.
I've always felt the same way, but the new one looks greatly improved.
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Old 06-14-2013, 06:16 AM   #453
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You do know that the xbox market is practically non existent in Japan and most of Asia right? So in a sense i does matter. The US buys more Xbox than Playstations and the Playstation just kicks the living crap out of the xbox in the Asian market. Still, until only a few weeks the Xbox was still the world leader in sold consoles. That should tell you how strong the Xbox is in the US and the rest of the world.

Wow... it's $100 more expensive! Sure that will be it's doom! Sony did ok, plus... the Xbox Elite went for the same $499 and sold by the ****loads. I am a gamer. The better games and best multiplayer experience is on the Xbox as of this e3.

I guess you would be lazy for google so here you go: http://www.geekwire.com/2013/npd-xbo...sales-sink-25/



Now no enough info... or maybe you must think everybody makes those numbers up. Maybe you can try getting the info on the NPD website: https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/u...e/video-games/

On a last note. Sure, it's a little restrictive on the used games subject (one that in time Sony will move to), but whining about constant INTERNET connection? I found this article on the sight and found it very interesting. Microsoft changed the game when it made you turn to a broadband connection to be able to play on Xbox live. This is something similar. But keep on hating.

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/u...the-npd-group/
Not just Asia, Europe, SA, everywhere else.
And again, you're missing the big point. The 360 had a headstart on the PS3, and the PS3 caught up to the 360. You're making it seem like the 360 dominates in the US, and that is just not completely true.
Its not just $100 more expensive, it has higher restrictions as well, and better games? Better experience online? How can you claim that when hardly anyone has actually played a XBone or PS4? Also, you underestimate the PSN, especially PS+. Just recently XBOX is starting to offer free games, something Sony has done for months now, and will continue to do so
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:39 AM   #454
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I've always felt the same way, but the new one looks greatly improved.

And you can get several different types of third party controllers. That shouldn't be a major issue.

Picking a system because you don't like the controller is like choosing a car based on the tires.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:02 AM   #455
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Or a girl based on the type of shoes she wears. . .
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:19 AM   #456
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Or a girl based on the type of shoes she wears. . .
Well I beg to differ. That's speaking to her taste in fashion as much as the accessory itself. I like a woman that likes to wear nice heels.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:28 AM   #457
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And you can get several different types of third party controllers. That shouldn't be a major issue.

Picking a system because you don't like the controller is like choosing a car based on the tires.
Tell that to Nintendo.

Anyway, compared to the ins and outs of gddr5 vs a VRAM cache the controller selection seems fairly consequential.

Plus I've never used 3rd party controller I liked.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:00 AM   #458
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Sony knows better than anyone how quickly the tides can turn with the switch to a new generation.

That said... there's a lot noise here but social / mobile continue to dominate growth.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:16 AM   #459
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Declaring a PS4 versus Xbox winner this early is about as effective as grading the 2013 NFL draft.

Sony's strategy is focused on a pure gaming experience. Short term is an appealing strategy but long term the ps4 might not be versatile enough to keep up with google, apple, and MS. Plus there will be cheaper gaming options such as Valve steam box.

Microsoft is trying to transforming the Xbox into a complete multimedia experience and incorporate all of Microsoft's other resources. It is an ambitious project that if done real well could put them back on top or be a complete train wreck.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:49 AM   #460
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Sony knows better than anyone how quickly the tides can turn with the switch to a new generation.

That said... there's a lot noise here but social / mobile continue to dominate growth.
Social/mobile has definitely captured the casual gamer. And this is largely because of ease of use. The girlfriend that played Tetris and Dr. Mario with you in the 90's can play angry birds on her phone and isn't interested in long, drawn out story lines and games that have a high degree of difficulty. Casual gamers are looking for simple, easy to start and stop games that can fill the time in waiting rooms, lines and riding in the passengers seat of a car or while they happen to be also checking their facebook or email page. Something that is there with them while they are already doing what they need to.

I have gaming time set aside at the end of the day when my daughter has gone to bed and after my wife and I watch an episode of some show we like. I like to sit down and unwind. I like interactive story lines. Just popping bubbles, farming chickens and knocking things over with a sling shot isn't my thing.

Casual gamers are a large piece of the market and should be sought after. Their demands are simpler, both in terms of the player and the computing power required. It's easier to sell and easier to buy. So that's fine. But I don't think "hard core" gamers are going away. I think there will always be a market for the "gamer" as they are described - people who like sit down for extended periods of time with sole purpose of playing a video game. Just like radio didn't kill books, and TV didn't kill radio, video games will always be.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:57 AM   #461
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What does the PS4 and Vita look like?
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:07 AM   #462
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Not just Asia, Europe, SA, everywhere else.
And again, you're missing the big point. The 360 had a headstart on the PS3, and the PS3 caught up to the 360. You're making it seem like the 360 dominates in the US, and that is just not completely true.
Its not just $100 more expensive, it has higher restrictions as well, and better games? Better experience online? How can you claim that when hardly anyone has actually played a XBone or PS4? Also, you underestimate the PSN, especially PS+. Just recently XBOX is starting to offer free games, something Sony has done for months now, and will continue to do so
Xbox live kicks the living crap out of the playstation service. Or do have you forgotten all the mod and cheaters that get to play on that system. Specially on game like Call of Duty (that sucks by the way). Or have you forgotten also the security breach on hundreds of thousands of accounts? Sorry dude... that is just the way it is... and if you ask any real hardcore gamer they will tell that the system to play multiplayer games will always be the one with xbox live.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:11 AM   #463
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And you can get several different types of third party controllers. That shouldn't be a major issue.

Picking a system because you don't like the controller is like choosing a car based on the tires.
all of the 3rd party controllers still have the same problems. They are made for men with little hands and the analog sticks are position at the same level. The higher placed right analog stick on an xbox lets you grab it in a more natural or ergonomic way. It's the reason why the Xbox 360 controller is considered to be the best controller ever designed.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:21 AM   #464
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Social/mobile has definitely captured the casual gamer. And this is largely because of ease of use. The girlfriend that played Tetris and Dr. Mario with you in the 90's can play angry birds on her phone and isn't interested in long, drawn out story lines and games that have a high degree of difficulty. Casual gamers are looking for simple, easy to start and stop games that can fill the time in waiting rooms, lines and riding in the passengers seat of a car or while they happen to be also checking their facebook or email page. Something that is there with them while they are already doing what they need to.

I have gaming time set aside at the end of the day when my daughter has gone to bed and after my wife and I watch an episode of some show we like. I like to sit down and unwind. I like interactive story lines. Just popping bubbles, farming chickens and knocking things over with a sling shot isn't my thing.

Casual gamers are a large piece of the market and should be sought after. Their demands are simpler, both in terms of the player and the computing power required. It's easier to sell and easier to buy. So that's fine. But I don't think "hard core" gamers are going away. I think there will always be a market for the "gamer" as they are described - people who like sit down for extended periods of time with sole purpose of playing a video game. Just like radio didn't kill books, and TV didn't kill radio, video games will always be.
The hardcore gamer isn't going away but you've got hugely increasing development costs with each generation and not a big enough market to sustain more than the top 5 companies. That's it. It will remain niche unless they can bridge the gap (thematically, time investment and difficulty wise) with thoughtful games like Journey.

Last edited by Chris; 06-14-2013 at 10:39 AM..
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:45 AM   #465
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Not just Asia, Europe, SA, everywhere else.
And again, you're missing the big point. The 360 had a headstart on the PS3, and the PS3 caught up to the 360. You're making it seem like the 360 dominates in the US, and that is just not completely true.
Its not just $100 more expensive, it has higher restrictions as well, and better games? Better experience online? How can you claim that when hardly anyone has actually played a XBone or PS4? Also, you underestimate the PSN, especially PS+. Just recently XBOX is starting to offer free games, something Sony has done for months now, and will continue to do so
Selling more consoles in the US for the last 28 straight months, at the same price, almost 8 years into the current generation cycle should tell you otherwise.

And on the PS3 catching the Xbox360... duh!!! You got 4.14 billion people in Asia. Microsoft is non existing in that market. Deal with it! Americans prefer the xbox360.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:47 AM   #466
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not this america
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:52 AM   #467
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not this america
Yup! United States of America!!!

not appropriate for office

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Old 06-14-2013, 11:04 AM   #468
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Read this - http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous...one-intentions

>The thing is we suck at telling the story. The whole point of the DRM switch from disc based to cloud based is to kill disc swapping, scratched discs, bringing discs to friends house, trade-ins for **** value with nothign going back to developers, and high game costs. If you want games cheaper then 59.99, you have to limit used games somehow. Steam's model requires a limited used game model.


>The thing is, the DRM is really really similar to steam... You can login anywhere and play your games, anyone in your house can play with the family xbox. The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)

>It's a long tail strategy, just like steam. Steam had it's growing pains at the beginning with all it's drm **** as well. [...] For digital downloads steam had no real competition at the time, they were competing against boxed sales. At the time people were pretty irate about steam, (on 4chan too...) It was only once they had a digital marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted ****.

>Think about it, on steam you get a game for the true cost of the game, 5$-30$. On a console you have to pay for that PLUS any additional licenses for when you sell / trade / borrow / etc. If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more. [...] If we say "Hey publishers, you limit game to 39.99, we ensure every license transfer you get 10$, gamestop gets 20$" that is a decent model... Microsoft gets a license fee on first and subsequent game purchases, compared to just first now? That's a revenue increase.

>Competition is the best man, it helps drive both to new heights. See technology from the Cold War. If we had no USSR, we'd be way worse off today. TLDR: Bring it on Steam

2/4

>Yeah we passed that around the office at Xbox. Most of us were like "Well played Sony, Well played". That being said they are just riding the hype train of ZOMG THEY ARE TRYING TO **** US FOR NO REASON. Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back... [...] just simpleminded people not seeing the bigger picture. Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded.

>Everyone and their mother complains about how gamestop ****s them on their trade ins, getting 5$ for their used games. We come in trying to find a way to take money out of gamestop, and put some in developers and get you possibly cheaper games and everyone b****es at MS. Well, if you want the @#$@ing from Gamestop, go play PS4.

>The goal is to move to digital downloads, but Gamestop, Walmart, Target, Amazon are KIND OF ****ING ENTRENCHED in the industry. They have a lot of power, and the shift has to be gradual. Long term goal is steam for consoles. [...] If you always want to stay with what you have, then keep current consoles, or a PS4. We're TRYING to move the industry forwards towards digital distribution... it'sa bumpy road

>Publishers have enourmous power. Microsoft is trying to balance between consumer delight, and publisher wishes. If we cave to far in either direction you have a non-starting product. WiiU goes too far to consumer, you have no 3rd party support to shake a stick at. PS4 is status-quo. XB1 is trying to push some things, at the expense of others. We have a vision, we'll see if it works in the coming years
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:06 AM   #469
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http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/...-over-xbox-one

Quote:
"For Xbox One [Microsoft has] granted us a license for New 'n' Tasty! but they still say you need a publisher. We don't have a publisher so we're not officially on the platform, even though we're compatible, even though we'll be ready to do it. Period.
This will really hurt the Xbox One if Microsoft doesn't reconsider some of the new policies it threw out the other day.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:11 AM   #470
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:15 AM   #471
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Read this - http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous...one-intentions

>The thing is we suck at telling the story. The whole point of the DRM switch from disc based to cloud based is to kill disc swapping, scratched discs, bringing discs to friends house, trade-ins for **** value with nothign going back to developers, and high game costs. If you want games cheaper then 59.99, you have to limit used games somehow. Steam's model requires a limited used game model.


>The thing is, the DRM is really really similar to steam... You can login anywhere and play your games, anyone in your house can play with the family xbox. The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)

>It's a long tail strategy, just like steam. Steam had it's growing pains at the beginning with all it's drm **** as well. [...] For digital downloads steam had no real competition at the time, they were competing against boxed sales. At the time people were pretty irate about steam, (on 4chan too...) It was only once they had a digital marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted ****.

>Think about it, on steam you get a game for the true cost of the game, 5$-30$. On a console you have to pay for that PLUS any additional licenses for when you sell / trade / borrow / etc. If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more. [...] If we say "Hey publishers, you limit game to 39.99, we ensure every license transfer you get 10$, gamestop gets 20$" that is a decent model... Microsoft gets a license fee on first and subsequent game purchases, compared to just first now? That's a revenue increase.

>Competition is the best man, it helps drive both to new heights. See technology from the Cold War. If we had no USSR, we'd be way worse off today. TLDR: Bring it on Steam

2/4

>Yeah we passed that around the office at Xbox. Most of us were like "Well played Sony, Well played". That being said they are just riding the hype train of ZOMG THEY ARE TRYING TO **** US FOR NO REASON. Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back... [...] just simpleminded people not seeing the bigger picture. Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded.

>Everyone and their mother complains about how gamestop ****s them on their trade ins, getting 5$ for their used games. We come in trying to find a way to take money out of gamestop, and put some in developers and get you possibly cheaper games and everyone b****es at MS. Well, if you want the @#$@ing from Gamestop, go play PS4.

>The goal is to move to digital downloads, but Gamestop, Walmart, Target, Amazon are KIND OF ****ING ENTRENCHED in the industry. They have a lot of power, and the shift has to be gradual. Long term goal is steam for consoles. [...] If you always want to stay with what you have, then keep current consoles, or a PS4. We're TRYING to move the industry forwards towards digital distribution... it'sa bumpy road

>Publishers have enourmous power. Microsoft is trying to balance between consumer delight, and publisher wishes. If we cave to far in either direction you have a non-starting product. WiiU goes too far to consumer, you have no 3rd party support to shake a stick at. PS4 is status-quo. XB1 is trying to push some things, at the expense of others. We have a vision, we'll see if it works in the coming years
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:15 AM   #472
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http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/...-over-xbox-one



This will really hurt the Xbox One if Microsoft doesn't reconsider some of the new policies it threw out the other day.
Cool I've been wanting to play a DayZ console version for awhile now
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:19 PM   #473
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That makes complete and epic sense. And most gamers would be willing to forgo selling or trading games in if it knocks $20 off the original disc-based price. Where they'll lose everyone is trying to sell it all for the same price.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:46 PM   #474
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That makes complete and epic sense. And most gamers would be willing to forgo selling or trading games in if it knocks $20 off the original disc-based price. Where they'll lose everyone is trying to sell it all for the same price.
Theoretical best case scenario -- that sounds awesome


Real life probable scenario -- same prices for more profit
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:12 PM   #475
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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Read this - http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous...one-intentions

>The thing is we suck at telling the story. The whole point of the DRM switch from disc based to cloud based is to kill disc swapping, scratched discs, bringing discs to friends house, trade-ins for **** value with nothign going back to developers, and high game costs. If you want games cheaper then 59.99, you have to limit used games somehow. Steam's model requires a limited used game model.


>The thing is, the DRM is really really similar to steam... You can login anywhere and play your games, anyone in your house can play with the family xbox. The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)

>It's a long tail strategy, just like steam. Steam had it's growing pains at the beginning with all it's drm **** as well. [...] For digital downloads steam had no real competition at the time, they were competing against boxed sales. At the time people were pretty irate about steam, (on 4chan too...) It was only once they had a digital marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted ****.

>Think about it, on steam you get a game for the true cost of the game, 5$-30$. On a console you have to pay for that PLUS any additional licenses for when you sell / trade / borrow / etc. If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more. [...] If we say "Hey publishers, you limit game to 39.99, we ensure every license transfer you get 10$, gamestop gets 20$" that is a decent model... Microsoft gets a license fee on first and subsequent game purchases, compared to just first now? That's a revenue increase.

>Competition is the best man, it helps drive both to new heights. See technology from the Cold War. If we had no USSR, we'd be way worse off today. TLDR: Bring it on Steam

2/4

>Yeah we passed that around the office at Xbox. Most of us were like "Well played Sony, Well played". That being said they are just riding the hype train of ZOMG THEY ARE TRYING TO **** US FOR NO REASON. Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back... [...] just simpleminded people not seeing the bigger picture. Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded.

>Everyone and their mother complains about how gamestop ****s them on their trade ins, getting 5$ for their used games. We come in trying to find a way to take money out of gamestop, and put some in developers and get you possibly cheaper games and everyone b****es at MS. Well, if you want the @#$@ing from Gamestop, go play PS4.

>The goal is to move to digital downloads, but Gamestop, Walmart, Target, Amazon are KIND OF ****ING ENTRENCHED in the industry. They have a lot of power, and the shift has to be gradual. Long term goal is steam for consoles. [...] If you always want to stay with what you have, then keep current consoles, or a PS4. We're TRYING to move the industry forwards towards digital distribution... it'sa bumpy road

>Publishers have enourmous power. Microsoft is trying to balance between consumer delight, and publisher wishes. If we cave to far in either direction you have a non-starting product. WiiU goes too far to consumer, you have no 3rd party support to shake a stick at. PS4 is status-quo. XB1 is trying to push some things, at the expense of others. We have a vision, we'll see if it works in the coming years
You do realize nearly every game is available for download on PSN/XBOXLive. Yet its the same price as a disc game. I don't see this changing on the console, due to the publishers having to allow WalMart/Target/Amazon to get their sales as well.
The used game market is a big deal, it allows people to trade in games they don't play anymore, for some credit, to buy another game. Rinse and repeat. Yes, it might only be $5, but trade in 4 games you will never play again to get $20 off a new game, hey why not.
The thing with having discs, I know I have the game ready to play, anymore, wherever I bring it. I might not be able to sign into my account somewhere, I assume re-download a game onto this other console I'm on, etc. I don't like always online, requiring to be connected, check in every day and if not, you can't access your system.

I can sense a lot of gamers going for the PS4. Sony seems to have learned with what they did wrong with the PS3, and turned the corner going forward to a better console. Microsoft seems to have the opinion they think they know what the gamers want, and are going to give them that. There is a ton of displeasure among the Xbox one. Calling the PSN for the PS4 a failure is ridiculous at this point. I would say PS+ provides better services, but right now XBOX Live does provide better chatting/social interaction, which could change. Nobody really knows yet.
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