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Old 06-09-2013, 01:17 PM   #51
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But by being pro life, you are. I don't think anyone on earth is pro abortion, they are just pro choice.

I am on the side of the defenseless. I have been given a chance to enjoy this thing we call life and I think everyone conceived should be allowed the same opportunity. If you don't want a baby there are plenty of ways to avoid conception but if this mystery called life bestows into your care a spark of this light you do not have the right to snuff it out.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:20 PM   #52
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I don't want to turn this into an abortion thread. I try to use my view of abortion with relation to how I am about eating meat and how I appear to PETA. They probably think I'm a murderer and horrible monster for feeding an industry that tortures and kills animals for my consumption.

That's how I view pro-choice people. I don't think they believe they're doing anything wrong even if I think it's murdering a baby.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:22 PM   #53
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:24 PM   #54
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I don't want to turn this into an abortion thread. I try to use my view of abortion with relation to how I am about eating meat and how I appear to PETA. They probably think I'm a murderer and horrible monster for feeding an industry that tortures and kills animals for my consumption.

That's how I view pro-choice people. I don't think they believe they're doing anything wrong even if I think it's murdering a baby.
Glad you brought this up because it's often the example I use. We kill millions of animals that have intelligence, feel pain, etc. To me, a fetus or embryo is hardly fully formed, completely dependent on the mother, and frankly doesn't know the difference. I'm not flippant on the subject, I think it's an incredibly difficult decision and is often a sad thing. But far be it from me to force people to have them.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:25 PM   #55
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:25 PM   #56
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:34 PM   #57
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:35 PM   #58
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When did I imply that? Pro life people want to eliminate abortions...period! If you are personally pro life, but for others you don't care, then you're still pro choice.
Your assumption that all pro-lifers want to eliminate abortion is flawed and paranoid, and leads to the accusation that pro-lifers are extremists.

I am pro life like you, but while I abhor abortion, I have no intention of overturning Roe vs Wade. It is the law of the land, as divisive as it may be. From my view they get their choice from law, not because I support them, because I don't.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:42 PM   #59
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When did I imply that? Pro life people want to eliminate abortions...period! If you are personally pro life, but for others you don't care, then you're still pro choice.
BS. Forcing your beliefs onto others is not a requirement to be pro-life. It's a requirement in being completely ignorant,but then again I could wrong,ignorant & pro-life may be one & the same.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:42 PM   #60
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Your assumption that all pro-lifers want to eliminate abortion is flawed and paranoid, and leads to the accusation that pro-lifers are extremists.

I am pro life like you, but while I abhor abortion, I have no intention of overturning Roe vs Wade. It is the law of the land, as divisive as it may be. From my view they get their choice from law, not because I support them, because I don't.
Wow, that's a hell of a conclusion you jumped to. Extremists? Paranoid? Jeez. I said i UNDERSTAND why people would be pro-life, i just don't AGREE with it.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:43 PM   #61
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You guys have sucked the life out of this thread. No pun intended.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:44 PM   #62
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I am on the side of the defenseless. I have been given a chance to enjoy this thing we call life and I think everyone conceived should be allowed the same opportunity. If you don't want a baby there are plenty of ways to avoid conception but if this mystery called life bestows into your care a spark of this light you do not have the right to snuff it out.

I want to clarify a point. This (above) is how I have come to feel about the issue but I will not be carrying a sign in front of an abortion clinic or passing judgment on those that chose an abortion option to their life choices. I leave that to the Light that sparks us all to decide.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:45 PM   #63
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BS. Forcing your beliefs onto others is not a requirement to be pro-life. It's a requirement in being completely ignorant,but then again I could wrong,ignorant & pro-life may be one & the same.
Of course it is!

let me get something straight. If you're pro-life, you want to eliminate the choice. 100 percent. And that's fine if you believe that, I even get why you do. But there is an argument in America, and if you're pro-life, and want to overturn the law, then pushing your beliefs on others is exactly what you're doing. If you personally would NEVER have an abortion, but allow other people to make a choice, you're pro-choice.

Again, I GET IT. If you think an embryo is a human and should have the same rights as one, then you think its murder. I get that. I just dont agree.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:46 PM   #64
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:51 PM   #65
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Not going to touch the abortion analogy, but I did stop eating meat partly on the basis of ethical reasons I had laughed at for most my life.

Politics and religion: my personal beliefs haven't undergone any big changes post-college, but I have come to see even very conservative worldviews as much more understandable and legitimate than I once did.

And not in a patronizing "oh, I get how a person's upbringing might make them hold those incorrect beliefs." More an understanding that different people and societies come to emphasize different values for historically important reasons. One of the best books on the topic is The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt. Won't give the whole synopsis, but it has helped me better see the rational in opinions that I may have previously dismissed as selfish/crazy/ignorant/etc.

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Old 06-09-2013, 01:55 PM   #66
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:55 PM   #67
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:56 PM   #68
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Of course it is!

let me get something straight. If you're pro-life, you want to eliminate the choice. 100 percent. And that's fine if you believe that, I even get why you do. But there is an argument in America, and if you're pro-life, and want to overturn the law, then pushing your beliefs on others is exactly what you're doing. If you personally would NEVER have an abortion, but allow other people to make a choice, you're pro-choice.

Again, I GET IT. If you think an embryo is a human and should have the same rights as one, then you think its murder. I get that. I just dont agree.
I just gave you an example that contradicted your statement...me, and I am not alone on that--by a long shot. So who is forcing their opinions on who?

BTW, there is a HUGE difference between pro choice/pro life on a personal level and the political level. I think you are blurring the two in respect to the views of those who claim they are pro life.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #69
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #70
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #71
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #72
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I just gave you an example that contradicted your statement...me, and I am not alone on that--by a long shot. So who is forcing their opinions on who?

BTW, there is a HUGE difference between pro choice/pro life on a personal level and the political level. I think you are blurring the two in respect to the views of those who claim they are pro life.
Pro-life, pro-choice is a political issue. I dont see how you can separate the two. You are either for choice or you're against it. You can be pro-choice and never get an abortion.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #73
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:13 PM   #74
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Pro-life, pro-choice is a political issue. I dont see how you can separate the two. You are either for choice or you're against it. You can be pro-choice and never get an abortion.
You just made my point. You can't separate the two, but assume that is true for everyone.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:14 PM   #75
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